Back button focus, anyone?

**MSL** · 01-28-2014, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

Anyone here use this on their Pentax? I personally don't see the need for this configuration. Just learn to hold the shutter half way down while using your thumb and middle finger for rear wheel control, AE lock, paddle buttons, etc and front wheel control.

Not a technique I'd use often, but I can see it easily being of use when you want to focus on a spot and then wait for the action to come to that location without having to hold the shutter button down the whole time, and easier than switching the camera in and out of MF mode.

Brooke Meyer · 01-28-2014, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

I saw this on Peta Pixel:

AF-ON & Back Button Autofocus: This May Just Change the Way You Shoot Forever

Anyone here use this on their Pentax? .

Been using the rear AF button so long, I can't do it any other way. Good Company

Roob-N-Boots · 01-29-2014, 01:56 AM

I have been using the AF button for a couple years now. Makes it so much easier for me especially when using center focus point on my K-x or select focus point on my K-01.

I agree with people on here stating that the K-3 has the AF button placed better than the K-5 although I have never shot with a K-3. The placement of the AF button has always been one of my few gripes with the K-5 since I was so used to the K-x AF button (pretty much same place as K-3)

PDL · 01-29-2014, 01:13 PM

I have not been commenting on much lately, but here goes.

About using the AF button and de-coupling AF from the shutter button. The following is a list of posts/threads that I have commented in over the last few years. This is not a new subject and it is a revelation only to the uninitiated. Maybe this subject should become a sticky.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/67048-do-you-gu...l-focus-2.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-pentax-beginners-corner-q/61808-af-opt...you-use-2.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-pentax-beginners-corner-q/75115-do-you...gs-camera.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/70829-rant-about...d-go-away.html

quote from this thread
"To those of you using the AF button to - disable AF.

Just who is in control of when the subject is in focus?
Shutter button ==> the camera.
Shutter button -> AF button ==> the camera until the human intervenes - but still the camera.
AF Button ==> the human.
manual ==> the human.

Personally I prefer the last two - I am in control - not the camera."

Another quote from the thread:
"I have attended two photo workshops sponsored by National Geographic. At each one the guy(s) from NG have de-coupled AF from the shutter button - so THEY decide when the object is in focus - not the camera. In fact, one of them (Michael Melford) said that on his Canon MkIII something or another - the only two custom functions he sets up are to display the histogram on the LCD and to de-couple AF. He has at least 5 covers."

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/54184-af-button-k20.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/48938-tips-af-us...#ixzz2rojoNwiO
Contains a long rant a duplications of threads:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/43995-who-uses-a...#ixzz2romBqtOz
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/36283-how-do-yo...#ixzz2ronj74Wg
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/36253-if-you-can...#ixzz2ropLeeKp
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/25737-back-butto...#ixzz2rorD4Pl9

Enjoy - The elitist - formerly known as PDL

6BQ5 · 01-29-2014, 01:25 PM

I must definitely be one of the uninitiated!

Or, at least digital ignorant. I never had one of these on my film SLR bodies.

So I looked through my K-30 and my AF and AE-L functions are shared on one button. I don't think I could give up AE-L for AF control. Now, if it were a second and separate button then I might reconsider this method.

**geomez** · 01-29-2014, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

So I looked through my K-30 and my AF and AE-L functions are shared on one button. I don't think I could give up AE-L for AF control. Now, if it were a second and separate button then I might reconsider this method.

I agree. I shoot with a K-3 and K-01 and don't want to give up the AE-L functionality on my K-01 (similar button layout as the K30/K50). That said I don't want my shooting experiences to be all THAT different from the K-3 and K-01, therefore I keep the half way shutter button AF on both.

millsware · 01-29-2014, 02:15 PM

I just started toying with it. I can definitely see it being useful in low-light situations where AF is prone to hunting. Once you get the focus, you can keep shooting instead of waiting in between every shot.

PDL · 01-29-2014, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

I must definitely be one of the uninitiated! :-) Or, at least digital ignorant. I never had one of these on my film SLR bodies.

My first and only AF enabled film SLR was a Pentax SF-1. AF only worked with a single spot in the center of the frame and only with the shutter button pressed half way. I would have loved to have a way to de-couple AF on that camera.

When I purchased my *istDs, by default it worked the same way. It was at the NG workshop that the idea of de-coupling AF from the shutter button was discussed. All three of the instructors in that workshop stated that they all de-coupled AF from the shutter button on all of their digital SLR's. A default action on their part.

With most (K30 not withstanding) modern DSLR's you should be able to set your camera up to how you need/want it to be. Having used SLR's for 40+ years, I am old school on doing things my way not what some nameless engineer thinks I should use. Technique and knowledge of your system will out perform second guessing most of the time.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

Brooke Meyer · 01-29-2014, 08:16 PM - **1 Like**

I learned from necessity, photographing dance. Track dancers with rear AF, maintaining focus, being in rhythm with music.

adwb · 01-30-2014, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by ruggiex

I've always set the camera this way. Then I don't need to fiddle with AF.A, AF.S, AF.C and MF modes. I always leave my camera on AF.C. With Quickshift lenses, I can do AF.S or AF.C or MF without having to change camera's mode at all. If I want AF, I press the button. If I want AF.C, I hold the button. If I want MF, I don't press the button. There was no going back ever since I discovered the usefulness of the AF button.

Dito that's my way to , more keepers at a wedding with out any doubt.

geekkt · 01-31-2014, 09:35 PM

Always, always, always. I love BBF. I'm shooting either portrait, lifestyle, or just snapshot style of my kids 98% of the time and I find that back button focus is both really comfortable for me and also that I like my focus and shutter separate.

baldrick · 02-01-2014, 03:27 AM

Most of my shooting theses days is at airshows where I want to decide when the camera autofocuses, not the camera. With small fast moving targets when the autofocus starts "hunting" every time you push the shutter button you miss a lot of shots. I started using the back button on my K10d now the K20d lives on that setting and I have become so used to it is Permanent.
Simmo.

lister6520 · 02-01-2014, 05:02 AM

I din't use the AF button much until the K-3, which has it placed in exactly the right place. I would have wanted to use it with other cameras but they all had the button in the wrong place making it impractical to use for anything but tripod shots and other situations that are not time critical.

It took a few days and some botched shots until my muscle memory adapted to using it and now I wonder how I ever managed without it. I used to have to resort to all sorts of 'tricks' to get the camera to do what I wanted before, the main issue being separating focus lock from AE lock and switched between continuous and manual AF. True there is AF cancel which can do some of that to some extent (with the same button) but I found that a very unnatural way and never got used to doing it reflexively.

The AF-2 mode (focus with the AF button) IMHO makes it the most natural way to focus. Press the button to focus, keep holding it if you want to track focus or just don;t press it at all if you don;t want to refocus.
Its location also makes it perfectly easy to focus, adjust the rear wheel and lock exposure without moving the tip of the thumb by more than half an inch.

DeadJohn · 02-01-2014, 08:52 AM

I was in NYC Times Square 2 nights ago. Weather was 15 degrees F so warm gloves were a must. My thumb kept brushing nearby buttons when I tried to use the rear AF. This is not a major criticism, just noting an outlier where I found the rear AF difficult. It was on a K-5 but I think the K-3 would have similar issues while wearing thick gloves; I would press a different set of wrong buttons on the K-3. Next time I'll use thinner gloves with handwarmer packs.

derekkite · 02-01-2014, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

I was in NYC Times Square 2 nights ago. Weather was 15 degrees F so warm gloves were a must. My thumb kept brushing nearby buttons when I tried to use the rear AF. This is not a major criticism, just noting an outlier where I found the rear AF difficult. It was on a K-5 but I think the K-3 would have similar issues while wearing thick gloves; I would press a different set of wrong buttons on the K-3. Next time I'll use thinner gloves with handwarmer packs.

The K5 was worse. I didn't use back button af for that reason on the K5. The K3 is placed so rolling your thumb up from the natural resting place finds it.

01-29-2014, 01:56 AM	#18
Roob-N-Boots Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Palm Springs CA Posts: 393	I have been using the AF button for a couple years now. Makes it so much easier for me especially when using center focus point on my K-x or select focus point on my K-01. I agree with people on here stating that the K-3 has the AF button placed better than the K-5 although I have never shot with a K-3. The placement of the AF button has always been one of my few gripes with the K-5 since I was so used to the K-x AF button (pretty much same place as K-3) Last edited by Roob-N-Boots; 01-29-2014 at 01:23 PM.

01-29-2014, 01:25 PM	#20
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348 Original Poster	I must definitely be one of the uninitiated! Or, at least digital ignorant. I never had one of these on my film SLR bodies. So I looked through my K-30 and my AF and AE-L functions are shared on one button. I don't think I could give up AE-L for AF control. Now, if it were a second and separate button then I might reconsider this method. Last edited by 6BQ5; 02-01-2014 at 09:00 AM.

01-29-2014, 04:19 PM	#23
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	Not a film possiblity - as far as I know Originally posted by 6BQ5 I must definitely be one of the uninitiated! :-) Or, at least digital ignorant. I never had one of these on my film SLR bodies. My first and only AF enabled film SLR was a Pentax SF-1. AF only worked with a single spot in the center of the frame and only with the shutter button pressed half way. I would have loved to have a way to de-couple AF on that camera. When I purchased my *istDs, by default it worked the same way. It was at the NG workshop that the idea of de-coupling AF from the shutter button was discussed. All three of the instructors in that workshop stated that they all de-coupled AF from the shutter button on all of their digital SLR's. A default action on their part. With most (K30 not withstanding) modern DSLR's you should be able to set your camera up to how you need/want it to be. Having used SLR's for 40+ years, I am old school on doing things my way not what some nameless engineer thinks I should use. Technique and knowledge of your system will out perform second guessing most of the time. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

01-29-2014, 08:16 PM - 1 Like	#24
Brooke Meyer Guest	I learned from necessity, photographing dance. Track dancers with rear AF, maintaining focus, being in rhythm with music. Last edited by Brooke Meyer; 12-03-2014 at 09:18 PM.

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01-28-2014, 07:58 PM	#16
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by 6BQ5 Anyone here use this on their Pentax? I personally don't see the need for this configuration. Just learn to hold the shutter half way down while using your thumb and middle finger for rear wheel control, AE lock, paddle buttons, etc and front wheel control. Not a technique I'd use often, but I can see it easily being of use when you want to focus on a spot and then wait for the action to come to that location without having to hold the shutter button down the whole time, and easier than switching the camera in and out of MF mode.

01-28-2014, 09:43 PM	#17
Brooke Meyer Guest	Originally posted by 6BQ5 I saw this on Peta Pixel: AF-ON & Back Button Autofocus: This May Just Change the Way You Shoot Forever Anyone here use this on their Pentax? . Been using the rear AF button so long, I can't do it any other way. Good Company

01-29-2014, 01:13 PM	#19
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	I have not been commenting on much lately, but here goes. About using the AF button and de-coupling AF from the shutter button. The following is a list of posts/threads that I have commented in over the last few years. This is not a new subject and it is a revelation only to the uninitiated. Maybe this subject should become a sticky. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/67048-do-you-gu...l-focus-2.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-pentax-beginners-corner-q/61808-af-opt...you-use-2.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-pentax-beginners-corner-q/75115-do-you...gs-camera.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/70829-rant-about...d-go-away.html quote from this thread "To those of you using the AF button to - disable AF. Just who is in control of when the subject is in focus? Shutter button ==> the camera. Shutter button -> AF button ==> the camera until the human intervenes - but still the camera. AF Button ==> the human. manual ==> the human. Personally I prefer the last two - I am in control - not the camera." Another quote from the thread: "I have attended two photo workshops sponsored by National Geographic. At each one the guy(s) from NG have de-coupled AF from the shutter button - so THEY decide when the object is in focus - not the camera. In fact, one of them (Michael Melford) said that on his Canon MkIII something or another - the only two custom functions he sets up are to display the histogram on the LCD and to de-couple AF. He has at least 5 covers." https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/54184-af-button-k20.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/48938-tips-af-us...#ixzz2rojoNwiO Contains a long rant a duplications of threads: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/43995-who-uses-a...#ixzz2romBqtOz https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/36283-how-do-yo...#ixzz2ronj74Wg https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/36253-if-you-can...#ixzz2ropLeeKp https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/25737-back-butto...#ixzz2rorD4Pl9 Enjoy - The elitist - formerly known as PDL

01-29-2014, 02:02 PM	#21
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Originally posted by 6BQ5 So I looked through my K-30 and my AF and AE-L functions are shared on one button. I don't think I could give up AE-L for AF control. Now, if it were a second and separate button then I might reconsider this method. I agree. I shoot with a K-3 and K-01 and don't want to give up the AE-L functionality on my K-01 (similar button layout as the K30/K50). That said I don't want my shooting experiences to be all THAT different from the K-3 and K-01, therefore I keep the half way shutter button AF on both.

01-29-2014, 02:15 PM	#22
millsware Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 70	I just started toying with it. I can definitely see it being useful in low-light situations where AF is prone to hunting. Once you get the focus, you can keep shooting instead of waiting in between every shot.

01-30-2014, 01:51 AM	#25
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	Originally posted by ruggiex I've always set the camera this way. Then I don't need to fiddle with AF.A, AF.S, AF.C and MF modes. I always leave my camera on AF.C. With Quickshift lenses, I can do AF.S or AF.C or MF without having to change camera's mode at all. If I want AF, I press the button. If I want AF.C, I hold the button. If I want MF, I don't press the button. There was no going back ever since I discovered the usefulness of the AF button. Dito that's my way to , more keepers at a wedding with out any doubt.

01-31-2014, 09:35 PM	#26
geekkt Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Edmonton Posts: 60	Always, always, always. I love BBF. I'm shooting either portrait, lifestyle, or just snapshot style of my kids 98% of the time and I find that back button focus is both really comfortable for me and also that I like my focus and shutter separate.

02-01-2014, 03:27 AM	#27
baldrick Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bulli, NSW Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 67	Most of my shooting theses days is at airshows where I want to decide when the camera autofocuses, not the camera. With small fast moving targets when the autofocus starts "hunting" every time you push the shutter button you miss a lot of shots. I started using the back button on my K10d now the K20d lives on that setting and I have become so used to it is Permanent. Simmo.

02-01-2014, 05:02 AM	#28
lister6520 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 733	I din't use the AF button much until the K-3, which has it placed in exactly the right place. I would have wanted to use it with other cameras but they all had the button in the wrong place making it impractical to use for anything but tripod shots and other situations that are not time critical. It took a few days and some botched shots until my muscle memory adapted to using it and now I wonder how I ever managed without it. I used to have to resort to all sorts of 'tricks' to get the camera to do what I wanted before, the main issue being separating focus lock from AE lock and switched between continuous and manual AF. True there is AF cancel which can do some of that to some extent (with the same button) but I found that a very unnatural way and never got used to doing it reflexively. The AF-2 mode (focus with the AF button) IMHO makes it the most natural way to focus. Press the button to focus, keep holding it if you want to track focus or just don;t press it at all if you don;t want to refocus. Its location also makes it perfectly easy to focus, adjust the rear wheel and lock exposure without moving the tip of the thumb by more than half an inch.

02-01-2014, 08:52 AM	#29
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	I was in NYC Times Square 2 nights ago. Weather was 15 degrees F so warm gloves were a must. My thumb kept brushing nearby buttons when I tried to use the rear AF. This is not a major criticism, just noting an outlier where I found the rear AF difficult. It was on a K-5 but I think the K-3 would have similar issues while wearing thick gloves; I would press a different set of wrong buttons on the K-3. Next time I'll use thinner gloves with handwarmer packs.

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02-01-2014, 09:02 AM	#30
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by DeadJohn I was in NYC Times Square 2 nights ago. Weather was 15 degrees F so warm gloves were a must. My thumb kept brushing nearby buttons when I tried to use the rear AF. This is not a major criticism, just noting an outlier where I found the rear AF difficult. It was on a K-5 but I think the K-3 would have similar issues while wearing thick gloves; I would press a different set of wrong buttons on the K-3. Next time I'll use thinner gloves with handwarmer packs. The K5 was worse. I didn't use back button af for that reason on the K5. The K3 is placed so rolling your thumb up from the natural resting place finds it.