[Douglas_of_Sweden]

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Just got bought myself a "Panagor Auto Bellow P" for Pentax K for about 9 US$.
Does bellows count as LBA?

What is the first lens I should put on it? A 50 mm? I suppose this will work much like extension tubes, right? Just more extended...

Another question, my dictionary claims bellows are alway in plural (bellows), but the box the bellow(s) come(s) in says "bellow", but that was written by a Japanese (?) company, so that may not be the best source of English grammar. What's correct?

Still trying to get that Pentax F 100/2.8 macro, but the seller lives a bit north of the polar circle and apparently does not read e-mails more than once a week (perhaps when she gets to the nearest city???) so the negotiation is very slow.

[Canada_Rockies]

The plural is correct: Bellows.

Bellows count as LBA, because once you start to use them, you will find that you cannot retract the bellows far enough to lower the magnification to what you really wanted, and then you will go out and buy a bellows lens. (They have no focusing mechanism, and can sit closer to the mount because of that).

And then you will find that you are focusiing so close that you cannot get the lights into the space in front of the lens, and you will buy a bellow lens with a longer focal length to increase the working room, and then you will decide that macro is so much fun that you will buy a real macro lens to use without the bellows - oh, yeah, you are already doing that! LOL

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Bellows count as LBA, because once you start to use them, you will find that you cannot retract the bellows far enough to lower the magnification to what you really wanted, and then you will go out and buy a bellows lens. (They have no focusing mechanism, and can sit closer to the mount because of that).

Where do I find a bellows lens? (LBA getting worse rapidly ) I must have used one in the air force but that was 20 years ago. Hints welcome.

[Big Dave]

Douglas,
You don't really need a bellows lens. The only advantage of such a lens is that you may be able to focus at infinity with the bellows. Try a basic 50mm f2 or 1.7 manual lens. you will get great results. With a lens reversing ing you will get even greater magnification. A inexpensive M42 screw mount adapter will allow the use of many inexpensive screw mount lenses. You may even find a bargin used at a pawn shop or camera store. Search the web for ideas.

Dave

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Douglas,
You don't really need a bellows lens. The only advantage of such a lens is that you may be able to focus at infinity with the bellows. Try a basic 50mm f2 or 1.7 manual lens. you will get great results. With a lens reversing ing you will get even greater magnification. A inexpensive M42 screw mount adapter will allow the use of many inexpensive screw mount lenses. You may even find a bargin used at a pawn shop or camera store. Search the web for ideas.

Dave

Thanks for the advice. I'll start with the A 50/1.7 since I already have it and anyway use it too little. Of course I will get to A functions. In any case, I got tipped that there is a Pentax-K 100 mm f4 bellows lens in a shop here in Stockholm, so I'll take a look at it, after I tried my own 50.

Now, I'm wondering a bit, why would I like to focus a macro system on infinity?

[Canada_Rockies]

Douglas,
You don't really need a bellows lens. The only advantage of such a lens is that you may be able to focus at infinity with the bellows. Try a basic 50mm f2 or 1.7 manual lens. you will get great results. With a lens reversing ing you will get even greater magnification. A inexpensive M42 screw mount adapter will allow the use of many inexpensive screw mount lenses. You may even find a bargin used at a pawn shop or camera store. Search the web for ideas.

Dave

Not quite right, Dave. A bellows lens allows less magnification than a standard lens on the bellows. You might not be able to get any smaller than, say, 2:1 with the standard lens on a bellows. With the bellows lens, you could get to 1:1. Very few bellows + bellows lens combinations will focus to infinity. The stack length of the bellows is more than the infinity back focus.

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Not quite right, Dave. A bellows lens allows less magnification than a standard lens on the bellows. You might not be able to get any smaller than, say, 2:1 with the standard lens on a bellows. With the bellows lens, you could get to 1:1. Very few bellows + bellows lens combinations will focus to infinity. The stack length of the bellows is more than the infinity back focus.

OK, but I still don't understand why I want to focus on infinity in a macro picture? No flowers or bugs will be that far away. I get the feeling I'm missing something here. Could you please explain to me Rockie?

Played a little with the bellows and the 50/1.7 today on the K20D and hope to post some example soon, but there is a job and two kids to take care of as well so it will take me some days. What I can say so far is that the "automatic" bellows work great with the hypermanual mode of the K20. The manual gave a strange impression first, but in practice it is rather simple and comes natural to choose aperture, press the green button... Exposure seams straightforward, handling the focus and the DOF is more tricky. Compared to extension tubes it is great not to have to switch tubes back and forth to change magnification. Focusing seams easier to do by changing the bellows extension slightly than to change focus on the lens, and I suppose that is what one do with the bellow lenses? And I am beginning to realize that the live view is not just a stupid detail to shut the mouth of people trying to review the camera in a few hours largely by listing the specifications and compare it with some canikony bodies. It is useful with macro!

Desperately looking in all storage places in our house after my old tripod. Used to have one that both could spread the legs very far at different angles and could shorten or reverse the center tube to get the head (and the camera) upside down between the legs. Have not seen it for many years now, since I have not done macro in a long time. I can't imagine that I would have thrown it away, and my other tripod, a manfrotto 144, is rather useless for macro. Heck what a lot of stuff we have collected during the years! I need that "macro-tripod" now! And we need a bigger house!

[Canada_Rockies]

OK, but I still don't understand why I want to focus on infinity in a macro picture? No flowers or bugs will be that far away. I get the feeling I'm missing something here. Could you please explain to me Rockie?

I was replying to Dave's comment about focusing to infinity with the bellows - I don't think it can be done with normal bellows lenses, and definitely can not be done with lenses having a focusing mount.

I did attempt (obviously not all that successfully) to explain that with a bellows, small orders of maginification are not possible with a lens with a focusing mount, and might not be there even with a bellows lens, due to the thickness of the bellows itself on the back of the lens. You may not be able to get a magnification less than a certain amount with the bellows.

On the other hand, a bellows will allow you to get much greater magnification ratios than a standard macro lens - or with a standard macro lens. It all has to do with how much the lens mount is moved in front of the camera's female lens mount.

Hope this helps clear the air a bit!

[Big Dave]

I was replying to Dave's comment about focusing to infinity with the bellows - I don't think it can be done with normal bellows lenses, and definitely can not be done with lenses having a focusing mount.

I took a test shot at infinity using my Pentax bellows and Takumar 100/4 bellows lens. The compressed bellows is the same thickness as the missing focusing helical on the lens. It is just a matter of achieving the correct back focus, whick Pentax did accomplish on this bellows. For some reason I can't upload the photo. I resized it and it still won't go. I just learned that I was out of space on the site. Nice to know.

Dave

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Very few bellows + bellows lens combinations will focus to infinity. The stack length of the bellows is more than the infinity back focus.

I took a test shot at infinity using my Pentax bellows and Takumar 100/4 bellows lens. The compressed bellows is the same thickness as the missing focusing helical on the lens. It is just a matter of achieving the correct back focus, whick Pentax did accomplish on this bellows. For some reason I can't upload the photo. I resized it and it still won't go. I just learned that I was out of space on the site. Nice to know.

Dave

So I have to accept what I in my ignorance thought was impossible. Bellows + a bellows lens can when the bellows are contracted to a small enough length focus from the nearest flower or bug all the way to infinity, which is impressive.

But again, why would I like to do that? I'm not going to get a depth of focus that cover that distance, am I. And if I want to focus on infinity, I have better options.

Cleaned out the boiler room and storage room today and throw away a lot of stuff, and...found my old macro tripod!

[Canada_Rockies]

I took a test shot at infinity using my Pentax bellows and Takumar 100/4 bellows lens. The compressed bellows is the same thickness as the missing focusing helical on the lens. It is just a matter of achieving the correct back focus, whick Pentax did accomplish on this bellows. For some reason I can't upload the photo. I resized it and it still won't go. I just learned that I was out of space on the site. Nice to know.

Dave

Thanks, Dave. That's good to know if I ever want more magnification and get myself a bellows. Pentax rules!

[garys]

Wow, you found an older Pentax 100 2.8 macro lenes!! I spent a whole day on the web looking for one of those. I figured I could get one less expensive then the new one. Although I like the size of the new one.

[garys]

Oh yea, about the bellows. Someone needs to tell me what LBA stands for (I knew I'd learn alot at this site). I have a Pentax bellows M I would use on my PZ1 and K110 with a 100 f4 m macro. I never really was happy with the shots I got from it. Must have been doing something wrong. Maybe someone could give me some basics on using it.

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

You could start with Peter Zacks https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-photography-knowledge-base/24622-m...l-bellows.html

Me, I've just started:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/25967-1st-macro-bellows.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/26298-first-try-bellows-tripod.html

[Arjay Bee]

Douglas, I found the focussing to be a real problem and tried to use the bellows to obtain correct focus but then ended up with changes in the size of the subject. Also it is not always possible to retain correct focus as the lens moves in and out.

I purchased a macro slider which does this job very nicely as that is what it is designed for: 4-way Macro Focusing Rail Slider for Nikon Canon FD K1O - eBay (item 330232797006 end time May-05-08 18:35:20 PDT)

I notice in another thread that these are refered to as focussing rails - whatever they are called, for the price they really make focussing so much easier. Also once you have the whole kit on your tripod the SR will no longer have to be engaged.