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09-12-2016, 07:48 PM   #211
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Settings are
  • K-5iis shooting RAW DNG files
  • DA* 200mm no uv filter...this is the first year i've shot without it and I think it has made a difference in quality and faster shutter
  • Sirui monopod / leg from N-2004X tripod
  • Sirui K-20x ballhead
  • aperture priority usually set at 5.6 ... sometimes 8.0 if i want more DOF. by the end of 1st half i will usually be opened up to 3.5 and by end of game wide open at 2.8
  • auto iso fast setting -- daytime at 200 - 21560 and evening/night time 800 - 21560. I have iso set to 1/3 stop increments.
  • auto white balance
  • center-weighted metering
  • AFC spot auto focus tracking using single frame drive mode
  • DarkTable
  • Adobe Creative Cloud -- Bridge and Lightroom


I'm also open to and welcome any suggestions.


Varsity had a bye last week, so here are this weeks varsity favs. I'll mix up the middle school and varsity next week.


Hi,

I am not sure I can offer anything to make your shots any better...they are already outstanding.

One thing I have been doing different than your technique is staying at f4 or below. Usually f2.8 for most of the game, even when the game starts during the sunny times.
I like trying to isolate the players from whatever is in the foreground and background. After seeing your photos, I am going to mix it up though, you have some SHARP pictures.

Please comment on your use of the fixed 200mm lens. Do you feel limited compared to a zoom?
I am using the tamron 70-200 f2.8 on my K-3, and I zoom in and out all the time.
Is the picture quality better on the 200mm vs the 70-200 at 200mm? If so, in what way? DOF, sharpness?

I thought about getting a 200mm, but that seems redundant to me.
Then I thought about the 300mm f4 (or the older version 300mm f4.5 for cheaper) but the f4 and more so the 4.5 seemed like it would be too slow...especially after sunset.

I appreciate your thoughts and insight!

Sincerely,

radman

09-12-2016, 07:59 PM   #212
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Hi,

Pursuant to my comments above,,,here are some examples of what I have been trying to do with the faster aperture...I usually stay at f2.8.
I try to get my subject/player in focus and get the others in the foreground and background as out of focus as possible.

My feeling is that it emphasizes the action and the "active" player.
Please comment on the photos and what are your thoughts on the f2.8 aperture?

Looking at the football photos above, it seems to me that I am sacrificing sharpness by trying to get the players "isolated"

These are my first photos posted here ever (as far as I can recall)...I usually hesitate to put myself "out there"

Thanks for any and all feedback,

radman
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09-12-2016, 09:04 PM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by radman Quote
Hi,

Pursuant to my comments above,,,here are some examples of what I have been trying to do with the faster aperture...I usually stay at f2.8.
I try to get my subject/player in focus and get the others in the foreground and background as out of focus as possible.

My feeling is that it emphasizes the action and the "active" player.
Please comment on the photos and what are your thoughts on the f2.8 aperture?

Looking at the football photos above, it seems to me that I am sacrificing sharpness by trying to get the players "isolated"

These are my first photos posted here ever (as far as I can recall)...I usually hesitate to put myself "out there"

Thanks for any and all feedback,

radman
Those look good to me! Separation is important when the background is busy like that. A reasonable trade off I think.
09-13-2016, 09:55 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by radman Quote

...
Hi,

I am not sure I can offer anything to make your shots any better...they are already outstanding.

One thing I have been doing different than your technique is staying at f4 or below. Usually f2.8 for most of the game, even when the game starts during the sunny times.
I like trying to isolate the players from whatever is in the foreground and background. After seeing your photos, I am going to mix it up though, you have some SHARP pictures.

Please comment on your use of the fixed 200mm lens. Do you feel limited compared to a zoom?
I am using the tamron 70-200 f2.8 on my K-3, and I zoom in and out all the time.
Is the picture quality better on the 200mm vs the 70-200 at 200mm? If so, in what way? DOF, sharpness?

I thought about getting a 200mm, but that seems redundant to me.
Then I thought about the 300mm f4 (or the older version 300mm f4.5 for cheaper) but the f4 and more so the 4.5 seemed like it would be too slow...especially after sunset.

I appreciate your thoughts and insight!

Sincerely,

radman
Hi Radman,

Nice field hockey pics.

As far as your question about getting a different lens than your Tamron 70-200, I think your answer really depends on how often you shoot in low light. I have a Sigma 70-200 2.8 and a Sigma 100-300 f4 for sports. When I got my 70-200, I also had a Tamron 70-200, and kept the one I liked best. If my only reason for the lens was using it for sports, I would have kept the Tamron instead because of one key factor. The Tamron is sharper at 2.8. I like everything else better about the Sigma, but not having that sharpness at 2.8 is limiting with the Sigma. My point is that you can get pretty sharp shots at 2.8, so staying there for subject isolation and faster shutter speeds makes sense with that lens. For most lenses, stopping down a step increases the IQ, so I usually stop down trying to get sharper pictures. I prefer subject sharpness to more isolation. It also depends on the background though.

I would think that photographing field hockey is similar to soccer, which I have done a decent amount of. I love the 100-300 lens for daytime, but once the sun goes down and the lights go on, f4 just doesn't cut it very well. I guess that depends on how good the lights are at the field you are at. The ones at our high school are terrible, so maybe for others you could get away with f4. I agree with you though, I wouldn't get a 200 since you already have that covered with your zoom. I much prefer the flexibility of a zoom, but if I could get sharper pics with another lens, I'm sure I could learn to live without the zoom.

09-13-2016, 11:47 AM - 3 Likes   #215
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09-13-2016, 12:32 PM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevwaly Quote
K3II and F 50 1.7
Great shot!
09-13-2016, 06:03 PM - 1 Like   #217
Tas
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
All your images are excellent, and so is your commentary! May I ask for a few more details on how you captured these aerial panning shots? I shot a motocross event yesterday as my nephew was in it (I have a general dislike for loud things, so without him I would definitely have been somewhere else). Showing motion in the air was a struggle, too fast a shutter speed and it looks just weird, too slow and I was stinking at the panning. There's no doubt I need practice at finding a compromise that works for me. Much practice. But I'd appreciate any tips. And then I need to practice.
It was a local track and the entire setup astonished me. Any yahoo who paid their $10 to get in could wander whereever they liked on the course. Seemed insane to me, but I was told by one of the racers that everyone there is a spectator, so they're all paying attention therefore it's OK. The moral: never hire a teenage male who thinks soaring through the air on a dirt bike is a good time to do any risk assessment for you.
Circled below are two photographers, and there was nothing stopping me from joining them in the middle. Except the fear of getting a dirt bike in the face. And knowing a little about physics. Maybe you get a better photo standing on the outside of a corner, but that's also where the bikes tend to head if they lose it. An ideal spot for me would be up that tree.
I managed to do OK panning across flats, and found a shorter focal length helped greatly. This was a k5iis, dfa100mm, f/11, iso800, 1/250s. If there's a next time, I think a panning head would have been a help across straight sections like this. There are rails I can clamp to, but anything seems to go so I could bring a tripod as well. There are not a huge number of spectators here, these races are at a level where the racers and their family/friends are the customers of the track, and not so much a product to draw in hordes of screaming fans with open wallets.
I also did fairly well picking a corner and waiting for riders to round the bend. At least I think I did pretty well, I have no idea what makes a good motocross photo. Did I mention I don't really like loud things? Well, I don't usually go out of my way to look at pictures of loud things either so I have little reference. This was k5iis, DA*300mm, iso3200, f/8, 1/3000s. High shutter speed seems to be ok when you have some dirt flying. AF-C and multi-point mode worked pretty darn well here, most errors were my inability to track with a 300mm lens. I think I'll be less conserve if I have another go, and not shy away from f/4.
I learned a great many things that I'll summarize for my own reference:

1) Figure out the entire days track schedule. I would have planned better which corners or jumps to stake out if I knew from the outset my nephew was racing in the morning and the afternoon when the sun was coming from a different direction.
2) Frozen spokes on the bike can look weird, shutter speed maximum 1/1000s if it's going to be in a position where it matters. Probably 1/500s would be better.
3) A zoom lens would be ideal for this, but the DA*300mm is far better than I am if I plan intelligently.
3.1) The SDM on the DA*300mm may be audible in a silent room, but no one can hear it at a motocross track.
4) Be more aggressive with wide open apertures. I blame years of macro shooting where I never have enough DoF.
5) iso 3200 on a k5iis is pretty great, but I miss iso80. #4 above should help.
6) I almost never use burst mode but did here and 7 fps feels like a machine gun compared to my normal shooting.
7) My memory card holds ~500 raw images, this normally takes me a month to fill. I almost filled it in a day. Be more selective or get more cards.
8) Definitely be more selective about what I shoot! I took way too many photos that I knew would have a busy background because I was afraid the cleaner compositions wouldn't turn out. Mostly, I did ok, so don't bother with what I know will be sub-par.
9) Almost always, it would be better to get track level or lower. I think both my images above would have been improved from a lower angle. Fear of getting run over is a limitation.
10) Look at more motocross photos done by people who know what they're doing.
11) Bring more earplugs and Tylenol.
12) Bring the butterfly net and Monarch tags for between races. I saw more Monarchs in a single day here than anywhere else this summer. Freaky. Wouldn't have pegged them as fans.
G'day Brian, thanks for the positive feedback on my images. I followed the link at the bottom of your thread and I must say you have some wonderful captures in your stream mate, the tonality and colour have created some compelling imagery. Kudos mate and judging by your images you should be giving me tips but hopefully the following responses will assist in answering your questions.

The panning shots in that thread are hyperlinks to my Flickr page so click on the photo to see the image metadata. Basically these were some of the first images I took on the day and the first chance to use the 70-200 in 'anger'. The late morning light was creating some really difficult scenes as the dappling meant there were bright hot spots and really dark shadows in each frame. This is why I went with Manual and set the shutter speed to 1/160sec. At that speed if I can successfully track the rider/bike with focus lock they will be sharp but with good motion blur due to proximity to the track and the speed they were riding. The dappled light helped with the blurred look too I think. Of course once I got home and reviewed the images the slight underexposure to manage the highlights meant the images lacked punch so I needed to PP the images with more of a 'HDR look' so the rider's weren't dull and blending into the background. I didn't quite get this right so I changed my process to try and blend images with the background more in future images. So whether it's tone, colour or sharpening I tend to process the background and the rider/bike differently.

I have typically set my camera up in Manual or TV mode, though I've been meaning to try TAv to let ISO float. The DA*300 is a great lens for shooting wide open as is the 70-200. I've felt the 150-450 was a bit soft wide open at the longer focal lengths. Therefore I tend to stop down slightly when I shoot the long zoom but I'm quite happy to open the aperture with the DA*300 and 70-200. DoF is the only issue of course but each situation needs to be assessed by chimping and adjusting accordingly. The best conditions to shoot in are overcast as there's always white present on bikes/riders and the images blow out fast in direct sunlight. The lack of trees at that venue reduces the amount of heavy shadows you'll have to contend wiith so that's handy. Even if it means you have less places to shoot from.

Are you using back button focus and release priority? This removes balancing the half shutter press to maintain focus and speeds up capturing images. And whilst I don't advocate 'spray & pray' I recently chopped a series of images mid-corner and if I hadn't I wouldn't have missed the most important frame(s) of a rider running wide and tumbling off (what I did capture is in the 12th post down here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/314413-post-your-k-1-pictures-242.html). In essence the corners are often the most spectacular for dramatic rider position, dirt flying etc (hence the other photographers are on the outside of the turn exit) and it's often where rider's bin it. I'd suggest during your recce of the track you find some good locations to pan from and just let the camera run at it's max rate. If soemthing spectular happens you get the shot, if nothing happens you have a lot of repeats, keep the best (1-2) and delete the rest or stack them for something funky. That doesn't cost anything other than time and having cards with enough capacity to take large quantities of images. The problem with coming home with 2000 x 36 Megapixel images and then needing to sort through them, is it takes a lot of time. This was one of the motivators that started me chopping captures at the wrong time. That and the buffer and people and bl**dy advertising banners. Grrr.

Position around the track is all about the action you're capturing; so is it exciting looking at a bike in motion along a straight? Not as much as when you have corners, jumps etc. In the straight sections I like to slow the shutter speed right down to make the image more interesting as not much is happening really. I'll attach a series of images at the bottom to compare three shutter speeds, 1/500s, 1/100s and 1/40s. If you can routinely capture MX at slower than 1/100s the images on the straight can look really good and make a nice contrast to the frozen motion, high detail images. Looking at your second image this is similar to those I've posted below but if you halve the shutter speed you'll improve the blur and can drop ISO. Did you do a global sharpen on that image? It appears there's plenty of contrast in the background and what I'd suggest is considering masking to sharpen so the detail in the bike/rider are the only parts sharpened. Some extra vibrance on the bike/rider would also add punch and separate them from a more drab background.

I've found that with jumps the slower shutter speeds are harder to work with hence I'd suggest under 1/200s will still create good results without dropping the keeper rate lots. And I agree it is easier to pan with a wider focal length, the mantra of 'moving closer to improve an image' applies here, so I'd suggest persist with the DA*300 just choose the locations to use it. If a rider is closing on your position the prime is more restrictive but good results are more about knowing where the action is and then being in location to maximise the 300mm focal length. I've worked recently with the 70-200 and 150-450 and have used the 150-450 case as a pouch for lens swaps. If you have the 300 and a wider zoom then you've got good reach with the tele and some flexibility for positions where the 300 is too long. If however you can find a spot to capture the inside of a corner exit (eg maybe 50m up from the exit) where you can get low you should get the rider/bike from the front and dust/rooster tails in frame. Looking at your third image you're already doing this but if you were lower and more zoomed in at 1/500s - 1/1600s you would capture a more immersive and dramatic image.

With jumps I find it easy to shoot against the sky, but the sky tends to be brighter and more work balancing this out is required in post. Good background separation is nice if it's not just sky but this isn't always possible. Where there's distracting detail in the background some of this can be minimized with a wider aperture and PP the rider/bike separately so you don't draw attention to it. I don't apply a lot of global processes to my images and this is one of the reasons why. Jumps are funny things too. Watching how the riders take them is important as there's not necessarily one good position to take images from. I tend to prefer the front of a rider but side on can be really good too. I also like to maintain context where possible which means allowing the ground to be visible to understand the height the riders get to. Not always of course, if you are low and closer to a jumping rider you can capture some great images, including with wide angles contre jour.

I didn't want to write a novel but there you go. I'm no pro at this and there's plenty of sites on the web to look at to find images that you like. Here's a group on Flickr to check out: MX-Photographie | Flickr This has an array of images from photographers with differing skills but the beauty of Flickr is the image capture info is usually available too.

Oh, and earplugs are a really good idea especially if you're getting close. I'd recommend giving these a try: Howard Leight | Quiet Banded Earplugs They're quick in and out and are not class 5 (overkill for this role) so you can still hear ambient noise.

I can't comment on butterflies or the monarchy tags, but I'd suggest the usual: king, queen, prince etc....sorry, couldn't help myself.

Good luck Brian,

Tas

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09-13-2016, 08:06 PM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
G'day Brian, thanks for the positive feedback on my images. I followed the link at the bottom of your thread and I must say you have some wonderful captures in your stream mate, the tonality and colour have created some compelling imagery. Kudos mate and judging by your images you should be giving me tips but hopefully the following responses will assist in answering your questions.
Thanks for the compliments! I've been loving colourfull things more and more, and I have to say that though the loud sounds were horrid, the loudly coloured riders were interesting. I seriously appreciate the time you took to respond, I'll be going over it a few times before my next outing! A few things:

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
The dappled light helped with the blurred look too I think. Of course once I got home and reviewed the images the slight underexposure to manage the highlights meant the images lacked punch so I needed to PP the images with more of a 'HDR look' so the rider's weren't dull and blending into the background. I didn't quite get this right so I changed my process to try and blend images with the background more in future images. So whether it's tone, colour or sharpening I tend to process the background and the rider/bike differently.
The dappled light is one of the things that made those so compelling imo, the streaking highlights just set off the panning wonderfully. And great tip about the processing rider and background separately, something to keep in mind!

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
TI have typically set my camera up in Manual or TV mode, though I've been meaning to try TAv to let ISO float. The DA*300 is a great lens for shooting wide open as is the 70-200. I've felt the 150-450 was a bit soft wide open at the longer focal lengths. Therefore I tend to stop down slightly when I shoot the long zoom but I'm quite happy to open the aperture with the DA*300 and 70-200. DoF is the only issue of course but each situation needs to be assessed by chimping and adjusting accordingly. The best conditions to shoot in are overcast as there's always white present on bikes/riders and the images blow out fast in direct sunlight. The lack of trees at that venue reduces the amount of heavy shadows you'll have to contend wiith so that's handy. Even if it means you have less places to shoot from.
Ahh heck, I never think of TAv mode, I'm normally in M almost exclusively. I'm honestly pretty happy with the results up to iso 3200, so I'm sure at f/4-5.6 and reasonable shutters I'd be pretty happy with whatever iso the camera settles on.


QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Are you using back button focus and release priority?
Yes and I love it! I'll also remember to keep shooting when riders go down, this was my first time watching my nephew race and he did end up in a little pile up rounding that exact bend I showed. I kinda shut my eyes when it happened, I'm not as convinced as he is about the indestructibility of teenagers, even though he emerged unscathed. Just keep shooting, it's not like there's anything I can do to help

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Position around the track is all about the action you're capturing; so is it exciting looking at a bike in motion along a straight? Not as much as when you have corners, jumps etc. In the straight sections I like to slow the shutter speed right down to make the image more interesting as not much is happening really. I'll attach a series of images at the bottom to compare three shutter speeds, 1/500s, 1/100s and 1/40s. If you can routinely capture MX at slower than 1/100s the images on the straight can look really good and make a nice contrast to the frozen motion, high detail images. Looking at your second image this is similar to those I've posted below but if you halve the shutter speed you'll improve the blur and can drop ISO. Did you do a global sharpen on that image? It appears there's plenty of contrast in the background and what I'd suggest is considering masking to sharpen so the detail in the bike/rider are the only parts sharpened. Some extra vibrance on the bike/rider would also add punch and separate them from a more drab background.
Wowzers on those panning shots, especially the last. Excellent! My processing was minimal, minor increase in contrast but that was about it. I'm used to lighting my subjects how I want them to appear, which isn't really an option here (of course intelligent positioning relative to the sun/clouds pays off!). I'll play around with doing more post.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
I've found that with jumps the slower shutter speeds are harder to work with hence I'd suggest under 1/200s will still create good results without dropping the keeper rate lots. And I agree it is easier to pan with a wider focal length, the mantra of 'moving closer to improve an image' applies here, so I'd suggest persist with the DA*300 just choose the locations to use it. If a rider is closing on your position the prime is more restrictive but good results are more about knowing where the action is and then being in location to maximise the 300mm focal length. I've worked recently with the 70-200 and 150-450 and have used the 150-450 case as a pouch for lens swaps. If you have the 300 and a wider zoom then you've got good reach with the tele and some flexibility for positions where the 300 is too long. If however you can find a spot to capture the inside of a corner exit (eg maybe 50m up from the exit) where you can get low you should get the rider/bike from the front and dust/rooster tails in frame. Looking at your third image you're already doing this but if you were lower and more zoomed in at 1/500s - 1/1600s you would capture a more immersive and dramatic image.
Great stuff...I'm mostly a prime guy, and also used a 100mm and a 50mm that day. I do have the 10-17mm fish as well as the da14mm, I expect if I was feeling brave there are a couple of spots where ultra wide would be amazing, actually I'm sure of it. I think I now have a better read on what's happening and can find some safe spots that are better vantage points. Dirt flying against a background of dirt is not nearly as impressive as dirt flying against a background of sky or far away trees.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
With jumps I find it easy to shoot against the sky, but the sky tends to be brighter and more work balancing this out is required in post. Good background separation is nice if it's not just sky but this isn't always possible. Where there's distracting detail in the background some of this can be minimized with a wider aperture and PP the rider/bike separately so you don't draw attention to it. I don't apply a lot of global processes to my images and this is one of the reasons why. Jumps are funny things too. Watching how the riders take them is important as there's not necessarily one good position to take images from. I tend to prefer the front of a rider but side on can be really good too. I also like to maintain context where possible which means allowing the ground to be visible to understand the height the riders get to. Not always of course, if you are low and closer to a jumping rider you can capture some great images, including with wide angles contre jour.
I think lack of context is what I was finding strange in some of my jump attempts, contrary to yours which show track position so you know what you're looking at. See my first example below, it's like he's floating in space (1/2000s) which is kinda weird. And I have FAR to many just like this (though happily enough to attempt stitching together one or two jumping panos showing a sequence). The second at 1/180s seemed to work pretty well, though would have been better in the morning when he would have been jumping into the sun, obviously the rider is wayyy too tight on the right, and my success rate was way to low with these settings (more practice!). The third was also at 1/180s, and the dude in blue was being passed so shows some context.

I'll look for more interesting angles to shoot from next time that show off the heights they hit, as well as a more frontal angle. I did attempt some head on, coming straight at me, nothing but the jump and the sky in view and had success practicing on slower ATV's, but failed miserable with the bikes. Next time!

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
I didn't want to write a novel but there you go. I'm no pro at this and there's plenty of sites on the web to look at to find images that you like. Here's a group on Flickr to check out: MX-Photographie | Flickr This has an array of images from photographers with differing skills but the beauty of Flickr is the image capture info is usually available too.

Oh, and earplugs are a really good idea especially if you're getting close. I'd recommend giving these a try: Howard Leight | Quiet Banded Earplugs They're quick in and out and are not class 5 (overkill for this role) so you can still hear ambient noise.
I'll check out the flickr group. I used the disposable foam jobs to take the bite off, but I could definitely do with a nice set of hearing protectors like that set! It's not even the bikes that are the worst, they're bad, but the worst is the non stop rotation of rock and country music blasting over the speakers at an ungodly volume. Oh, and the shouting announcer that I can't understand a word of. That's also the worst.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
I can't comment on butterflies or the monarchy tags, but I'd suggest the usual: king, queen, prince etc....sorry, couldn't help myself.

Good luck Brian,

Tas
LOL. And thanks again for your insights, it's greatly appreciated and a great help!





09-13-2016, 08:59 PM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake14mw Quote
Thanks for taking the time to give so much detail. I do basically the same thing as you at sporting events with my kids. I have a few questions based on what you wrote.

What makes you shoot RAW rather than jpg?

You say you use “AFC spot auto focus”. Do you mean center point focus? I have changed my mind back and forth between Centerpoint and 9 or 5 point autoselect.

I notice that you have a K-3ii, but use it as a secondary camera with a short lens. Why not use it as the primary with the 200mm?

NP. Yeah, ended up being pretty long. I never really sat and thought about all the things I did when taking sports shots. It was actually a good exercise and gives opportunity to look them over to find adjustments that can be made.

I shoot RAW to give the most opportunity for adjustment in post processing. Most of them get adjustments in shadows, highlights, whites, blacks, vibrance, sharpness and luminance noise reduction. Adding vibrance can cause the reds to blow out a little, so I may adjust the red saturation slider down if a team is wearing red. Sometimes I'll slide the green saturation slider up. I do use the lens profile correction, but the biggest problem I encounter with the DA* 200 is fringing. I miss the defringe from darktable it worked much better than the defringe in light room.

Ooops yes, I meant center point autofocus.

I choose the K5iis since it seems to be a little better at handling noise at high ISOs. I used the K3ii last year and I haven't done a real comparison between the two, but I'm leaning towards the K5iis doing a little better job in the lower light.
09-13-2016, 09:00 PM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattb123 Quote
Great shot!
Thanks Matt!
09-13-2016, 09:25 PM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by radman Quote
One thing I have been doing different than your technique is staying at f4 or below. Usually f2.8 for most of the game, even when the game starts during the sunny times.
I like trying to isolate the players from whatever is in the foreground and background. After seeing your photos, I am going to mix it up though, you have some SHARP pictures.

Please comment on your use of the fixed 200mm lens. Do you feel limited compared to a zoom?
I am using the tamron 70-200 f2.8 on my K-3, and I zoom in and out all the time.
Is the picture quality better on the 200mm vs the 70-200 at 200mm? If so, in what way? DOF, sharpness?

I thought about getting a 200mm, but that seems redundant to me.
Then I thought about the 300mm f4 (or the older version 300mm f4.5 for cheaper) but the f4 and more so the 4.5 seemed like it would be too slow...especially after sunset.

I appreciate your thoughts and insight!

I think finding the sweet spot for the lens you are using is what I would aim for. The pictures you are taking are great, so I wouldn't change unless you just want to try some other things. It seems like 5.6 is a sweet spot for the DA* 200mm. I'll shoot with a smaller aperture up to 8 or 11 if I'm taking a shot of a group and want more depth of field.

It was a hard decision to make between the DA*200 and the 70-200 Tamron/Sigma. I decided on the 200 since it had weather sealing. I've already used the 200 in a hand full of rainy games and so far no problems. I will say I still don't trust it when it starts raining hard -- I chicken out and run for cover. I really thought I would have been constrained by the fixed focal length, but now I don't even remember what it was like to use the zoom that I used in the first season. I will admit that I probably miss some receiver shots when the ball is thrown towards me and the action is too close. I find that I would rather have the weather sealing than the zoom. Maybe one of these days I can afford to get the DFA 70-200, but then would have to contend with weight.

edit: Just wanted to add a comment on the DA*200mm. Its main fault is the fringing and it seems pretty difficult to correct in Light Room withought the correction causing some other anomalies in the photos. DarkTable did a great job at this correction though.

I also thought about the 300mm, but opted for 2.8 since I really rely on it when it gets dark.



QuoteOriginally posted by radman Quote
Pursuant to my comments above,,,here are some examples of what I have been trying to do with the faster aperture...I usually stay at f2.8.
I try to get my subject/player in focus and get the others in the foreground and background as out of focus as possible.

My feeling is that it emphasizes the action and the "active" player.
Please comment on the photos and what are your thoughts on the f2.8 aperture?

Looking at the football photos above, it seems to me that I am sacrificing sharpness by trying to get the players "isolated"

These are my first photos posted here ever (as far as I can recall)...I usually hesitate to put myself "out there"

Thanks for any and all feedback,
When I'm taking action photos with a shallow DoF I know my it may raise the risk of missing the shot, depending on which way and how fast the action is moving. I found 5.6 worked pretty well and gave a good mix of sharpness and target subject separation and sometimes to accentuate the target subject will drop down to 3.0 or 3.5. By night time thought am forced to using 2.8. I too like the looks of photos with the shallow depth of field.

thanks for posting your pictures...they are great! We're all learning new things and this forum has been the best photography manual I could have ever found.

Last edited by rtmarwitz; 09-13-2016 at 09:31 PM.
09-13-2016, 10:48 PM - 1 Like   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Thanks for the compliments! I've been loving colourfull things more and more, and I have to say that though the loud sounds were horrid, the loudly coloured riders were interesting. I seriously appreciate the time you took to respond, I'll be going over it a few times before my next outing! A few things:
The dappled light is one of the things that made those so compelling imo, the streaking highlights just set off the panning wonderfully. And great tip about the processing rider and background separately, something to keep in mind!
Ahh heck, I never think of TAv mode, I'm normally in M almost exclusively. I'm honestly pretty happy with the results up to iso 3200, so I'm sure at f/4-5.6 and reasonable shutters I'd be pretty happy with whatever iso the camera settles on.
Yes and I love it! I'll also remember to keep shooting when riders go down, this was my first time watching my nephew race and he did end up in a little pile up rounding that exact bend I showed. I kinda shut my eyes when it happened, I'm not as convinced as he is about the indestructibility of teenagers, even though he emerged unscathed. Just keep shooting, it's not like there's anything I can do to help
Wowzers on those panning shots, especially the last. Excellent! My processing was minimal, minor increase in contrast but that was about it. I'm used to lighting my subjects how I want them to appear, which isn't really an option here (of course intelligent positioning relative to the sun/clouds pays off!). I'll play around with doing more post.
Great stuff...I'm mostly a prime guy, and also used a 100mm and a 50mm that day. I do have the 10-17mm fish as well as the da14mm, I expect if I was feeling brave there are a couple of spots where ultra wide would be amazing, actually I'm sure of it. I think I now have a better read on what's happening and can find some safe spots that are better vantage points. Dirt flying against a background of dirt is not nearly as impressive as dirt flying against a background of sky or far away trees.
I think lack of context is what I was finding strange in some of my jump attempts, contrary to yours which show track position so you know what you're looking at. See my first example below, it's like he's floating in space (1/2000s) which is kinda weird. And I have FAR to many just like this (though happily enough to attempt stitching together one or two jumping panos showing a sequence). The second at 1/180s seemed to work pretty well, though would have been better in the morning when he would have been jumping into the sun, obviously the rider is wayyy too tight on the right, and my success rate was way to low with these settings (more practice!). The third was also at 1/180s, and the dude in blue was being passed so shows some context.
I'll look for more interesting angles to shoot from next time that show off the heights they hit, as well as a more frontal angle. I did attempt some head on, coming straight at me, nothing but the jump and the sky in view and had success practicing on slower ATV's, but failed miserable with the bikes. Next time!
I'll check out the flickr group. I used the disposable foam jobs to take the bite off, but I could definitely do with a nice set of hearing protectors like that set! It's not even the bikes that are the worst, they're bad, but the worst is the non stop rotation of rock and country music blasting over the speakers at an ungodly volume. Oh, and the shouting announcer that I can't understand a word of. That's also the worst.
LOL. And thanks again for your insights, it's greatly appreciated and a great help!
Hey Brian I just hope the info helps, you don't look to need advice considering how sharp your images are. It helps to have a uniform background as you do and the angle of light actually looks pretty good.

I see what you mean about the rider suspended in the air, he looks more circque du soleil than going yeeha! through the bush. But the image is sharp and if the trees were less bright the rider would naturally catch the eye more. IMHO, YMMV, eieio...

The motion in the wheels of the second and third shots adds to the sense of movement, but really the motion blur in the trees is what gives these images their dynamic feel. And as you say it's down to practice.

Oh, most of my lenses are primes, it's only been with the recent acquistion of D-FA's that I've bought any zooms since about 2009. They're handy for this stuff, though as a prime shooter you find a good spot and the single focal length makes things simpler and clearer. If I could afford one I'd be happy to head out with a 600mm prime.

I thought I'd throw in some more images for the hell of it, they're all jumps too though from different points on the track. The last one was shot at 1/125s as he was moving away. It was the only one of four images that were sharp enough to process and to be honest I was surprised this one even worked. Slow shutter speeds and subjects approaching or leaving tend to be bad combos.







Here's some images on the National MX webpage that includes some pretty cool wide angle images. I attended rounds 9 and 10 if you're interested in comparing: http://www.mxnationals.com.au/category/multimedia/images/

Tas

Last edited by Tas; 09-14-2016 at 04:22 AM.
09-14-2016, 04:27 PM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I learned a great many things that I'll summarize for my own reference:
QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
I thought I'd throw in some more images for the hell of it
I'm really likin' these motorcross images. Keep 'em coming.
09-14-2016, 05:07 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by rtmarwitz Quote
I'm really likin' these motorcross images. Keep 'em coming.
Cheers Russell, hope to see some more football images too.








Tas
09-17-2016, 12:03 AM - 1 Like   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I'll check out the flickr group.
Some really good stuff from this bloke brian including examples of being on the outside of the corner: Bart Amsing | Flickr

@ 1/30s


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