business question

jshurak · 06-03-2008, 11:35 AM

So, I was employed by a company to go to some of their site to photograph some industrial equipment for them to use for marketing purposes. We've been keeping this somewhat informal.

I've created an invoice to give to the company, but not sure how to include my SSN for tax purposes. Should I put it on the invoice? Communication with the company has been primarily through email and I'm a little hesitant to sending my SSN in an email.

Thanks!

jmax · 06-03-2008, 12:22 PM

Did they ask for your SSN? Why would you need to put it on an invoice?

jshurak · 06-03-2008, 12:34 PM

tax purposes

jmax · 06-03-2008, 12:49 PM

When you say "employed" do you mean that you are actually an employee of the company? If that's the case then they would already have your SSN and I'm not really sure what the purpose of an invoice would be.

If you are doing this as an independent business, then Federal Income Taxes are between you and the IRS. I've never put my SSN or Tax ID Number on an invoice and can't remember ever receiving an invoice with a SSN on it. The only time you need to give another firm your SSN or Tax ID for Federal Income Tax purposes are those instances where they will be issuing a 1099.

MJB DIGITAL · 06-03-2008, 01:18 PM

stop

dont

they want to claim you for something. they probably want to give you a 1099. i believe they are going to use your ssn for a w9 form, but i could be wrong.

i wouldnt give it to them, but i do fill out my w9 if someone asks.
but please....let me have your ssn for some [vague] tax purposes....get real, be honest and up front, people.

ask them if it is for a w9/1099 and decide for yourself if you want to work that way. i do it sometimes. the only problem i have is that i this year, i had recorded income that also came in a 1099 statement...a f***ing mess for me. 8(

just make your regular invoice and if they keep asking for your ssn, just say,'why dont you just let me fill out my w9 for you?'

haha

mitch

MPrince · 06-03-2008, 06:49 PM

DO NOT email your SSN.

You do not need to include your SSN on an invoice.

If they pay you $600 or more in a calendar year, and you are not organized as a corporation, they are required to report that income to the IRS on a 1099, and you are required to complete a W-9 if they ask you to.

If they pay you less than $600 in a calendar year, they are not required to report the income to the IRS.

Whether or not you complete a W-9, you have to report the income, and attempting to hide income from the IRS is a bad idea to say the least.

Also, I wouldn't follow MJB's advice unless you relish the thought of spending time in a cozy jail cell with someone named "Ben Dover"

jshurak · 06-03-2008, 07:57 PM

thanks everyone. I spoke with the employer and was told they only need it when they get over $500. Again thanks.

George Lama · 06-03-2008, 08:56 PM

Most of us who are not incorporated file taxes under our SSN. Problem is when people begin to ask you for this kind of info for paperwork. Since you're working as yourself, not a business, they are free to ask you for your SSN and you would legally have to provide it.

You can avoid this by doing a few of things which are very cheap:
* get yourself registered as a DBA (Doing Business As) so you're official (here in upstate NY, it cost me $25 to file a DBA with my county)
* get a sales tax number from your state agency (if applicable - should be free)
* go to the IRS website and apply for an EIN (Employer ID #) or TIN (tax payer ID #)(free)

With this, you will never have to give anyone you sell your services to your SSN. Instead you give them your EIN and if applicable, can charge them sales tax as a separate item, then pass it on to the state.

The key is being a DBA. You need to make the distinction between being their employee and being a company being contracted to do services for them. I get hired to do a shoot, they're hiring me via my DBA. I am not their employee and I will not be listed under their payroll in any way shape or form. If I did, my accountant would kick my butt into the next county

jshurak · 06-04-2008, 04:21 AM

Thanks, This is definitely something I need to do a lot more research into. Shame on me!

MJB DIGITAL · 06-05-2008, 02:32 PM

OK what advice did I give that can end up with jailtime?

MPrince · 06-05-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL

OK what advice did I give that can end up with jailtime?

"ask them if it is for a w9/1099 and decide for yourself if you want to work that way"

If you are requested to submit a w9 and you fail to do so, you can be fined. If you willfully falsify any certification, that is a criminal act that could result in imprisonment. If you refuse to provide the w9 because you're hiding or attempting to hide income, you will go to jail if caught.

You don't have the option to decide for yourself whether or not you "want to work that way".

And by the way, the company requesting the information doesn't even have to use the government's form w9. They can use a form of their own design so long as it is similar in content to the irs form.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

MJB DIGITAL · 06-06-2008, 06:06 PM

i am afraid you misunderstood me

i am suggesting that he decides whether or not to work. period.

ask them why they want his ssn and take the info and decide 'if he wants to work' that way.

hope that clarifies things, too.

mitch

06-03-2008, 11:35 AM	#1
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626	business question So, I was employed by a company to go to some of their site to photograph some industrial equipment for them to use for marketing purposes. We've been keeping this somewhat informal. I've created an invoice to give to the company, but not sure how to include my SSN for tax purposes. Should I put it on the invoice? Communication with the company has been primarily through email and I'm a little hesitant to sending my SSN in an email. Thanks!

06-03-2008, 08:56 PM	#8
George Lama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133	Most of us who are not incorporated file taxes under our SSN. Problem is when people begin to ask you for this kind of info for paperwork. Since you're working as yourself, not a business, they are free to ask you for your SSN and you would legally have to provide it. You can avoid this by doing a few of things which are very cheap: * get yourself registered as a DBA (Doing Business As) so you're official (here in upstate NY, it cost me $25 to file a DBA with my county) * get a sales tax number from your state agency (if applicable - should be free) * go to the IRS website and apply for an EIN (Employer ID #) or TIN (tax payer ID #)(free) With this, you will never have to give anyone you sell your services to your SSN. Instead you give them your EIN and if applicable, can charge them sales tax as a separate item, then pass it on to the state. The key is being a DBA. You need to make the distinction between being their employee and being a company being contracted to do services for them. I get hired to do a shoot, they're hiring me via my DBA. I am not their employee and I will not be listed under their payroll in any way shape or form. If I did, my accountant would kick my butt into the next county Last edited by George Lama; 06-05-2008 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Correction - TIN

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06-03-2008, 12:22 PM	#2
jmax Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 42	Did they ask for your SSN? Why would you need to put it on an invoice?

06-03-2008, 12:34 PM	#3
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626 Original Poster	tax purposes

06-03-2008, 12:49 PM	#4
jmax Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 42	When you say "employed" do you mean that you are actually an employee of the company? If that's the case then they would already have your SSN and I'm not really sure what the purpose of an invoice would be. If you are doing this as an independent business, then Federal Income Taxes are between you and the IRS. I've never put my SSN or Tax ID Number on an invoice and can't remember ever receiving an invoice with a SSN on it. The only time you need to give another firm your SSN or Tax ID for Federal Income Tax purposes are those instances where they will be issuing a 1099.

06-03-2008, 01:18 PM	#5
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	stop dont they want to claim you for something. they probably want to give you a 1099. i believe they are going to use your ssn for a w9 form, but i could be wrong. i wouldnt give it to them, but i do fill out my w9 if someone asks. but please....let me have your ssn for some [vague] tax purposes....get real, be honest and up front, people. ask them if it is for a w9/1099 and decide for yourself if you want to work that way. i do it sometimes. the only problem i have is that i this year, i had recorded income that also came in a 1099 statement...a f***ing mess for me. 8( just make your regular invoice and if they keep asking for your ssn, just say,'why dont you just let me fill out my w9 for you?' haha mitch

06-03-2008, 06:49 PM	#6
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	DO NOT email your SSN. You do not need to include your SSN on an invoice. If they pay you $600 or more in a calendar year, and you are not organized as a corporation, they are required to report that income to the IRS on a 1099, and you are required to complete a W-9 if they ask you to. If they pay you less than $600 in a calendar year, they are not required to report the income to the IRS. Whether or not you complete a W-9, you have to report the income, and attempting to hide income from the IRS is a bad idea to say the least. Also, I wouldn't follow MJB's advice unless you relish the thought of spending time in a cozy jail cell with someone named "Ben Dover"

06-03-2008, 07:57 PM	#7
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626 Original Poster	thanks everyone. I spoke with the employer and was told they only need it when they get over $500. Again thanks.

06-04-2008, 04:21 AM	#9
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626 Original Poster	Thanks, This is definitely something I need to do a lot more research into. Shame on me!

06-05-2008, 02:32 PM	#10
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	OK what advice did I give that can end up with jailtime?

06-05-2008, 05:22 PM	#11
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL OK what advice did I give that can end up with jailtime? "ask them if it is for a w9/1099 and decide for yourself if you want to work that way" If you are requested to submit a w9 and you fail to do so, you can be fined. If you willfully falsify any certification, that is a criminal act that could result in imprisonment. If you refuse to provide the w9 because you're hiding or attempting to hide income, you will go to jail if caught. You don't have the option to decide for yourself whether or not you "want to work that way". And by the way, the company requesting the information doesn't even have to use the government's form w9. They can use a form of their own design so long as it is similar in content to the irs form. Hope that clarifies things for you.

06-06-2008, 06:06 PM	#12
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	i am afraid you misunderstood me i am suggesting that he decides whether or not to work. period. ask them why they want his ssn and take the info and decide 'if he wants to work' that way. hope that clarifies things, too. mitch