Client Etiquette, Question for the semi-Pro/Pro Photographers

rmtagg · 06-25-2008, 04:24 AM

I did not read this in any of the posts so I have to ask.... Did they ask the photog they hired if it was ok with them for you to also shoot at their wedding? If they have not this could cause a big problem the day of. Good idea to ask them this question and for you to talk with the hired photog before the day as well.

navcom · 06-25-2008, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by metalfab

Wow, thanks again for the replies.

Let me explain myself a bit more. The upcoming wedding that I'm volunteering at is some friends from the church. They already have hired a pro and no, they will not be letting him go just because I said I'll do photos for free. It's a win win because they will get some good photos from me and it will help build my portfolio a bit more.

Time is money, I'm a metal fabricator / welder and know it all too well. Photography is a very part time job right now. I'm just like sluggo913, eventually, if it comes close to what I make now then I'll quit my day job. It might be a year, 3 years, 5 years, maybe never, I'm going to give go either way.

Good for you! Good luck and let us know how the shoot goes. I agree with the point that was made that you should probably clear your presence with the other photographer. It doesn't help to make enemies in the industry. But IMHO, he/she has no reason to get upset....they are getting paid to do it....you aren't. They are getting what their contract says they should get as long as they do their part. I heard of someone one time who hired three professional photographers for their wedding. They apparantly all had different styles and the wedding party wanted to "make sure" they got exactly what they wanted. A bit expensive for my taste but they all got paid! And to top it off, I think the couple is now divorced!

metalfab · 06-25-2008, 11:49 AM

I'm always leaving out details, I think its the metal fumes getting to me. The couple has already talked with the hired photographer about me and has assured him that I will not get in the way. I'll be on the look out for 2 things that day; 1. where the photographer is and 2. where the couple is

alohadave · 06-25-2008, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by metalfab

I'm always leaving out details, I think its the metal fumes getting to me. The couple has already talked with the hired photographer about me and has assured him that I will not get in the way. I'll be on the look out for 2 things that day; 1. where the photographer is and 2. where the couple is

Since they have a pro handling the event, you can also focus on candids and things that the pro may not be able to get to. You presumably already know the couple, it's a good chance that you can get some pictures of people that are important to the couple that the pro might not know about.

sluggo913 · 06-25-2008, 03:44 PM

Good luck with the shoot, when you are not too busy taking pictures you may be able to gleen something from the pro or maybe ask yourself a question as to why he shot a certin way (how would I do that). If the pro seems approachable maybe you could ask about his style and gain some insight, some people are natural teachers and he may give you some tips.
Recommended reading (besides this forum) High Profit Photography Business In Any Market, by James Williams, Amherst Media, and Starting Your Career As A Freelance Photographer, by Tad Crawford, Allworth Press.

Tom S. · 06-25-2008, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by metalfab

I'm always leaving out details, I think its the metal fumes getting to me. The couple has already talked with the hired photographer about me and has assured him that I will not get in the way. I'll be on the look out for 2 things that day; 1. where the photographer is and 2. where the couple is

Don't lose sight of the other members of the wedding party and the guests too. The 'hired gun' will concentrate on the bride and groom for most of the time, which will leave you time for the rest of the wedding party and, in particular, the guests. That way, the bride and groom will not only have memories of their part in the wedding, but memories of their guests as well and it will give you ample space to stay out of the other guy's way.

Oops - I didn't see Dave's post above. Same idea, different words. Carry on!

MJB DIGITAL · 06-28-2008, 05:40 PM

Dont forget to post for us too. 8)

metalfab · 06-28-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL

Dont forget to post for us too. 8)

Their wedding is in 1 week from now, if they agree to let me post the images I will.

George Lama · 06-28-2008, 07:51 PM

I would still recommend meeting/chatting with the official photographer so you're both on the same page.

One of the things I always mention to customers is that although I don't mind other people taking photos, they're hiring me to do a job and I can't guarantee my job if a) the wedding party doesn't cooperate (i.e. the kids are crying and the photo can't be taken) and b) someone stops me from getting the shot I need to get (the videographer continually blocks the shot, grandma keeps yelling at me to get out of the way, etc.). Might as well make sure you're not going to be a thorn his/her side.

As to getting canned over someone else - it happens and I wouldn't worry about it.

Now, if you want people to commit to your services, you need a contract. Even if you're not planning on charging anything for your service, you're still offering your time and they're committing to either buying photos or receiving your work (and whatever copyright you assign to it). You also need to cover yourself should there be a problem - without a signed contract you will have no recourse should they decide to make unfounded claims. Put it all in writing - what you will do and will not do, any guarantees if any, etc.

As others suggested - focus on candids. I would also suggest not forgetting you're trying to showcase your work, so go for the great shots too! Best of luck!

metalfab · 07-05-2008, 09:36 PM

The Wedding was today and went fairly well. The hired photographer was very good, made note on certain things he did during the event. I spoke with him briefly before the service about me taking photos and it wasn't as issue, he even said he'd stay out of my way. I said no, this was his time and didn't have to worry about me at all. A very nice guy.

The church has a L shaped balcony, I stayed up there most of the time and made use of it all. I used the 50-135 for 80% of the 148 shots I took. I'm editing them now and may post some tonight or tomorrow.

About how my equipment handled the event;

- 540FGZ (or equal) is a must have, I even bumped the EV to +0.5 to +1.0 for most shots. I used my 360FGZ in the same building about 2 months ago, no comparison. One issue though; red eye and lots of it.
- 50-135 for the first time hunted a bit. My error too... I was trying a bit too hard sometimes, didn't tell myself to relax enough.
- 18-50 no issues.
- K200D, no issues, set to RAW DNG and 400 ISO.

-

metalfab · 07-06-2008, 12:13 AM

Here are some from the wedding today. I like the B&W over the color though I'll include both for the couple. Considering I was out of position to give the hired photographer his space what do you think?

No flash used on this one;

sluggo913 · 07-06-2008, 11:51 AM

Very nice, glad it all worked out for the best.

metalfab · 07-06-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by sluggo913

Very nice, glad it all worked out for the best.

Thanks Bob, it was a good time yesterday. I'm going to edit the rest, place them on DVD and let the couple decide which ones they want printed.

jgredline · 07-06-2008, 06:34 PM

Very Nice and great use of black and white. What lens did u use?

metalfab · 07-06-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

Very Nice and great use of black and white. What lens did u use?

Thanks jgredline, I used the 50-135 most of the time. Of this 5 photos 1, 2 and 5 are from the 50-135 and 3, 4 are from the 18-50.

06-28-2008, 05:40 PM	#22
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	can we see? Dont forget to post for us too. 8)

07-05-2008, 09:36 PM	#25
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	The Big Day The Wedding was today and went fairly well. The hired photographer was very good, made note on certain things he did during the event. I spoke with him briefly before the service about me taking photos and it wasn't as issue, he even said he'd stay out of my way. I said no, this was his time and didn't have to worry about me at all. A very nice guy. The church has a L shaped balcony, I stayed up there most of the time and made use of it all. I used the 50-135 for 80% of the 148 shots I took. I'm editing them now and may post some tonight or tomorrow. About how my equipment handled the event; - 540FGZ (or equal) is a must have, I even bumped the EV to +0.5 to +1.0 for most shots. I used my 360FGZ in the same building about 2 months ago, no comparison. One issue though; red eye and lots of it. - 50-135 for the first time hunted a bit. My error too... I was trying a bit too hard sometimes, didn't tell myself to relax enough. - 18-50 no issues. - K200D, no issues, set to RAW DNG and 400 ISO. -

07-06-2008, 12:13 AM	#26
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	Here are some from the wedding today. I like the B&W over the color though I'll include both for the couple. Considering I was out of position to give the hired photographer his space what do you think? No flash used on this one; Last edited by metalfab; 07-06-2008 at 09:54 AM.

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06-25-2008, 04:24 AM	#16
rmtagg Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Warrington, PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,271	I did not read this in any of the posts so I have to ask.... Did they ask the photog they hired if it was ok with them for you to also shoot at their wedding? If they have not this could cause a big problem the day of. Good idea to ask them this question and for you to talk with the hired photog before the day as well.

06-25-2008, 05:17 AM	#17
navcom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Minnesota USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 807	Originally posted by metalfab Wow, thanks again for the replies. Let me explain myself a bit more. The upcoming wedding that I'm volunteering at is some friends from the church. They already have hired a pro and no, they will not be letting him go just because I said I'll do photos for free. It's a win win because they will get some good photos from me and it will help build my portfolio a bit more. Time is money, I'm a metal fabricator / welder and know it all too well. Photography is a very part time job right now. I'm just like sluggo913, eventually, if it comes close to what I make now then I'll quit my day job. It might be a year, 3 years, 5 years, maybe never, I'm going to give go either way. Good for you! Good luck and let us know how the shoot goes. I agree with the point that was made that you should probably clear your presence with the other photographer. It doesn't help to make enemies in the industry. But IMHO, he/she has no reason to get upset....they are getting paid to do it....you aren't. They are getting what their contract says they should get as long as they do their part. I heard of someone one time who hired three professional photographers for their wedding. They apparantly all had different styles and the wedding party wanted to "make sure" they got exactly what they wanted. A bit expensive for my taste but they all got paid! And to top it off, I think the couple is now divorced!

06-25-2008, 11:49 AM	#18
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	I'm always leaving out details, I think its the metal fumes getting to me. The couple has already talked with the hired photographer about me and has assured him that I will not get in the way. I'll be on the look out for 2 things that day; 1. where the photographer is and 2. where the couple is

06-25-2008, 11:53 AM	#19
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by metalfab I'm always leaving out details, I think its the metal fumes getting to me. The couple has already talked with the hired photographer about me and has assured him that I will not get in the way. I'll be on the look out for 2 things that day; 1. where the photographer is and 2. where the couple is Since they have a pro handling the event, you can also focus on candids and things that the pro may not be able to get to. You presumably already know the couple, it's a good chance that you can get some pictures of people that are important to the couple that the pro might not know about.

06-25-2008, 03:44 PM	#20
sluggo913 Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Upton, Ma. Photos: Gallery Posts: 108	Good luck with the shoot, when you are not too busy taking pictures you may be able to gleen something from the pro or maybe ask yourself a question as to why he shot a certin way (how would I do that). If the pro seems approachable maybe you could ask about his style and gain some insight, some people are natural teachers and he may give you some tips. Recommended reading (besides this forum) High Profit Photography Business In Any Market, by James Williams, Amherst Media, and Starting Your Career As A Freelance Photographer, by Tad Crawford, Allworth Press.

06-25-2008, 06:16 PM	#21
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by metalfab I'm always leaving out details, I think its the metal fumes getting to me. The couple has already talked with the hired photographer about me and has assured him that I will not get in the way. I'll be on the look out for 2 things that day; 1. where the photographer is and 2. where the couple is Don't lose sight of the other members of the wedding party and the guests too. The 'hired gun' will concentrate on the bride and groom for most of the time, which will leave you time for the rest of the wedding party and, in particular, the guests. That way, the bride and groom will not only have memories of their part in the wedding, but memories of their guests as well and it will give you ample space to stay out of the other guy's way. Oops - I didn't see Dave's post above. Same idea, different words. Carry on!

06-28-2008, 05:44 PM	#23
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL Dont forget to post for us too. 8) Their wedding is in 1 week from now, if they agree to let me post the images I will.

06-28-2008, 07:51 PM	#24
George Lama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133	I would still recommend meeting/chatting with the official photographer so you're both on the same page. One of the things I always mention to customers is that although I don't mind other people taking photos, they're hiring me to do a job and I can't guarantee my job if a) the wedding party doesn't cooperate (i.e. the kids are crying and the photo can't be taken) and b) someone stops me from getting the shot I need to get (the videographer continually blocks the shot, grandma keeps yelling at me to get out of the way, etc.). Might as well make sure you're not going to be a thorn his/her side. As to getting canned over someone else - it happens and I wouldn't worry about it. Now, if you want people to commit to your services, you need a contract. Even if you're not planning on charging anything for your service, you're still offering your time and they're committing to either buying photos or receiving your work (and whatever copyright you assign to it). You also need to cover yourself should there be a problem - without a signed contract you will have no recourse should they decide to make unfounded claims. Put it all in writing - what you will do and will not do, any guarantees if any, etc. As others suggested - focus on candids. I would also suggest not forgetting you're trying to showcase your work, so go for the great shots too! Best of luck!

07-06-2008, 11:51 AM	#27
sluggo913 Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Upton, Ma. Photos: Gallery Posts: 108	Very nice, glad it all worked out for the best.

07-06-2008, 02:22 PM	#28
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	Originally posted by sluggo913 Very nice, glad it all worked out for the best. Thanks Bob, it was a good time yesterday. I'm going to edit the rest, place them on DVD and let the couple decide which ones they want printed.

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07-06-2008, 06:34 PM	#29
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Very Nice and great use of black and white. What lens did u use?

07-06-2008, 07:04 PM	#30
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	Originally posted by jgredline Very Nice and great use of black and white. What lens did u use? Thanks jgredline, I used the 50-135 most of the time. Of this 5 photos 1, 2 and 5 are from the 50-135 and 3, 4 are from the 18-50.