Focus help with K-3 birds in flight

**biz-engineer** · 10-22-2016, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by jacamar

I have difficulty locking the centre focus point onto the subject, then I just have a bunch of red dots fluttering around it and out-of-focus shots.

That's the case with AF hold set to off. When AF hold is increased, AF is more sticky but tracking in Z not good. When the subject is moving towards the camera or away from the camera, AF effort is Z is maximum, AF hold should be set to Off, and in this case it is easier to keep the center point of the subject (no panning).

**jacamar** · 10-22-2016, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

That's the case with AF hold set to off. When AF hold is increased, AF is more sticky but tracking in Z not good. When the subject is moving towards the camera or away from the camera, AF effort is Z is maximum, AF hold should be set to Off, and in this case it is easier to keep the center point of the subject (no panning).

I don't have my camera with me (in for repair - another story!) but I'm pretty sure autofocus hold was as recommended (medium). I'm not sure what you mean by "Z".

This pic (previously posted) was one of a string of shots where centre point focusing seems to have worked OK.

**biz-engineer** · 10-22-2016, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by jacamar

This pic (previously posted) was one of a string of shots where centre point focusing seems to have worked OK.

yes, center point is the most accurate. What's more difficult is to keep it on the subject. If you can do so, that's the best.

---------- Post added 22-10-16 at 22:20 ----------

Originally posted by jacamar

I'm not sure what you mean by "Z".

I meant: the subject is moving 100% towards the camera or away from the camera.

audiobomber · 10-22-2016, 02:37 PM

I shot this sequence with a K-3 and DA 55-300mm. I could not keep the gull centered, he was coming in fast on a tailwind, in Z direction I would say. Fortunately the camera tracked better than I was able to, even with the much maligned 550-300mm WR mounted. AF with the DA*300 is considerably more reliable.
Gull in flight - Google Photos

Last edited by audiobomber; 10-22-2016 at 07:06 PM.

**jpzk** · 10-22-2016, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by pasorro

Thanks for the tip. My previous TAv settings Was límited to 800 ISO. This morning I have set 6400 ISO and my well exposed shoot are by far better than my 800 underexposed ones.
Sorry bad english and best regards from Spain

It has been discussed over and over: as long as you don't underexpose at high ISO, you should still get good/decent results!

audiobomber · 10-22-2016, 07:18 PM

Here's ISO 6400 on the K-3, with 0.5 stop boost (ISO 8800), full image and 100% (pixel level) crop. This would be fine printed at A4 size (not that I would print this image).

ajaxmgr · 10-23-2016, 06:12 AM

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and thoughts, can't wait to try them out.

aaacb · 10-23-2016, 11:03 AM

If you are going to use af tracking, I could also add my experience. I've been going back and forth between using af-c with 9 auto and select-25 or select-9 (starts with one point but then can track across the rest of the highlighted points). I shoot more sports than birds, but I think some aspects translate because it's all about fast movement with potential clutter in the foreground and background. So far, I think select-25 is my preferred setting, it seems more resilient to my errors in panning. And if there is a lot of stuff that randomly jumps in front of the lens, I change af-c priority from off to low. However, it is of course essential to get the initial lock right.

audiobomber · 10-23-2016, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by jacamar

I have tried Audiobomber's approach but can't make it work for me. I have difficulty locking the centre focus point onto the subject, then I just have a bunch of red dots fluttering around it and out-of-focus shots. I find it easier to lock on with spot focus, though it doesn't work 100% of the time.

I don't see why locking focus in AF-C with center point and expanded area is any more difficult than locking focus in AF-S with center poiint. Are you using the shutter release or back button focus?

**jacamar** · 10-23-2016, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I don't see why locking focus in AF-C with center point and expanded area is any more difficult than locking focus in AF-S with center poiint. Are you using the shutter release or back button focus?

Shutter release - I've tried both and it's my preference. I can't explain it either - it sounds good in principle but doesn't seem to work for me.

**pasorro** · 10-24-2016, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by jacamar

Shutter release - I've tried both and it's my preference. I can't explain it either - it sounds good in principle but doesn't seem to work for me.

In my opinion center point with extended area is more difficult than auto 9. For a begginer i would recommended Auto 9,p.

audiobomber · 10-24-2016, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by pasorro

In my opinion center point with extended area is more difficult than auto 9. For a begginer i would recommended Auto 9,p.

Three problems with Auto 9.
1) The camera chooses the focal point, which may or may not be the bird.
2) I can't keep a bird in that small a pattern.
3) The camera is not tracking. It is simply refocusing with every shot, which then may or may not be on the bird.

**pasorro** · 10-25-2016, 09:06 AM - **2 Likes**

Duck hunting is easier with a shotgun, Nobody can put a bullet between the duck eyes. Auto 9 works for me also for DiF {Dragonfly in flight)

---------- Post added 10-25-2016 at 09:13 AM ----------

the best option would be select 9 with 27 extended area or more, but it is not available at the moment.

audiobomber · 10-25-2016, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by pasorro

Duck hunting is easier with a shotgun, Nobody can put a bullet between the duck eyes. Auto 9 works for me also for DiF {Dragonfly in flight)

---------- Post added 10-25-2016 at 09:13 AM ----------

the best option would be select 9 with 27 extended area or more, but it is not available at the moment.

What about with something besides a blank background?

slip · 11-10-2016, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by pasorro

Duck hunting is easier with a shotgun, Nobody can put a bullet between the duck eyes. Auto 9 works for me also for DiF {Dragonfly in flight)

---------- Post added 10-25-2016 at 09:13 AM ----------

the best option would be select 9 with 27 extended area or more, but it is not available at the moment.

they are cool photos!

Randy

---------- Post added 11-10-16 at 07:56 PM ----------

I haven't done a ton of BIF but can add my 2 cents
It would be a lot easier to start with birds that are landed (say seagulls at a beach) and lock the focus on one that is going to take off
having a lot of contrast (say dark bird with a blue sky) is easier for a camera to track the focus then a lower contrast setting. won't be the most exciting looking shot but hey you are out to practice
High ISO in day light is way less grainy then low light or indoors. don't be afraid to boost the ISO in order to keep a high shutter speed
practice panning.... people running, cars etc.
start with big birds and work your way smaller

experiment with focus settings... I have used first shot frame priority and the rest of the frames release priority. As long as the first frame has focus, the distance between the next 7 shots is short when you have 8fps so sometimes it is easier for the continuous focus to keep up with the subject

hope these make sense

good luck and let us know how you make out!

Randy

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10-22-2016, 01:00 PM	#16
biz-engineer Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,830	Originally posted by jacamar I have difficulty locking the centre focus point onto the subject, then I just have a bunch of red dots fluttering around it and out-of-focus shots. That's the case with AF hold set to off. When AF hold is increased, AF is more sticky but tracking in Z not good. When the subject is moving towards the camera or away from the camera, AF effort is Z is maximum, AF hold should be set to Off, and in this case it is easier to keep the center point of the subject (no panning).

10-22-2016, 01:11 PM	#17
jacamar Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Toronto Photos: Albums Posts: 2,045	Originally posted by biz-engineer That's the case with AF hold set to off. When AF hold is increased, AF is more sticky but tracking in Z not good. When the subject is moving towards the camera or away from the camera, AF effort is Z is maximum, AF hold should be set to Off, and in this case it is easier to keep the center point of the subject (no panning). I don't have my camera with me (in for repair - another story!) but I'm pretty sure autofocus hold was as recommended (medium). I'm not sure what you mean by "Z". This pic (previously posted) was one of a string of shots where centre point focusing seems to have worked OK.

10-22-2016, 01:18 PM	#18
biz-engineer Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,830	Originally posted by jacamar This pic (previously posted) was one of a string of shots where centre point focusing seems to have worked OK. yes, center point is the most accurate. What's more difficult is to keep it on the subject. If you can do so, that's the best. ---------- Post added 22-10-16 at 22:20 ---------- Originally posted by jacamar I'm not sure what you mean by "Z". I meant: the subject is moving 100% towards the camera or away from the camera.

10-22-2016, 02:37 PM	#19
audiobomber Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,796	I shot this sequence with a K-3 and DA 55-300mm. I could not keep the gull centered, he was coming in fast on a tailwind, in Z direction I would say. Fortunately the camera tracked better than I was able to, even with the much maligned 550-300mm WR mounted. AF with the DA300 is considerably more reliable. Gull in flight - Google Photos Last edited by audiobomber; 10-22-2016 at 07:06 PM.*

10-22-2016, 06:41 PM	#20
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,731	Originally posted by pasorro Thanks for the tip. My previous TAv settings Was límited to 800 ISO. This morning I have set 6400 ISO and my well exposed shoot are by far better than my 800 underexposed ones. Sorry bad english and best regards from Spain It has been discussed over and over: as long as you don't underexpose at high ISO, you should still get good/decent results!

10-23-2016, 06:12 AM	#22
ajaxmgr Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 54 Original Poster	Thanks everyone for your suggestions and thoughts, can't wait to try them out.

10-23-2016, 11:03 AM	#23
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,551	If you are going to use af tracking, I could also add my experience. I've been going back and forth between using af-c with 9 auto and select-25 or select-9 (starts with one point but then can track across the rest of the highlighted points). I shoot more sports than birds, but I think some aspects translate because it's all about fast movement with potential clutter in the foreground and background. So far, I think select-25 is my preferred setting, it seems more resilient to my errors in panning. And if there is a lot of stuff that randomly jumps in front of the lens, I change af-c priority from off to low. However, it is of course essential to get the initial lock right.

10-23-2016, 11:04 AM	#24
audiobomber Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,796	Originally posted by jacamar I have tried Audiobomber's approach but can't make it work for me. I have difficulty locking the centre focus point onto the subject, then I just have a bunch of red dots fluttering around it and out-of-focus shots. I find it easier to lock on with spot focus, though it doesn't work 100% of the time. I don't see why locking focus in AF-C with center point and expanded area is any more difficult than locking focus in AF-S with center poiint. Are you using the shutter release or back button focus?

10-23-2016, 01:52 PM	#25
jacamar Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Toronto Photos: Albums Posts: 2,045	Originally posted by audiobomber I don't see why locking focus in AF-C with center point and expanded area is any more difficult than locking focus in AF-S with center poiint. Are you using the shutter release or back button focus? Shutter release - I've tried both and it's my preference. I can't explain it either - it sounds good in principle but doesn't seem to work for me.

10-24-2016, 02:05 PM	#26
pasorro Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 125	Originally posted by jacamar Shutter release - I've tried both and it's my preference. I can't explain it either - it sounds good in principle but doesn't seem to work for me. In my opinion center point with extended area is more difficult than auto 9. For a begginer i would recommended Auto 9,p.

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10-24-2016, 03:12 PM	#27
audiobomber Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,796	Originally posted by pasorro In my opinion center point with extended area is more difficult than auto 9. For a begginer i would recommended Auto 9,p. Three problems with Auto 9. 1) The camera chooses the focal point, which may or may not be the bird. 2) I can't keep a bird in that small a pattern. 3) The camera is not tracking. It is simply refocusing with every shot, which then may or may not be on the bird.

10-25-2016, 11:32 AM	#29
audiobomber Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,796	Originally posted by pasorro Duck hunting is easier with a shotgun, Nobody can put a bullet between the duck eyes. Auto 9 works for me also for DiF {Dragonfly in flight) ---------- Post added 10-25-2016 at 09:13 AM ---------- the best option would be select 9 with 27 extended area or more, but it is not available at the moment. What about with something besides a blank background?

11-10-2016, 05:41 PM	#30
slip Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,537	Originally posted by pasorro Duck hunting is easier with a shotgun, Nobody can put a bullet between the duck eyes. Auto 9 works for me also for DiF {Dragonfly in flight) ---------- Post added 10-25-2016 at 09:13 AM ---------- the best option would be select 9 with 27 extended area or more, but it is not available at the moment. they are cool photos! Randy ---------- Post added 11-10-16 at 07:56 PM ---------- I haven't done a ton of BIF but can add my 2 cents It would be a lot easier to start with birds that are landed (say seagulls at a beach) and lock the focus on one that is going to take off having a lot of contrast (say dark bird with a blue sky) is easier for a camera to track the focus then a lower contrast setting. won't be the most exciting looking shot but hey you are out to practice High ISO in day light is way less grainy then low light or indoors. don't be afraid to boost the ISO in order to keep a high shutter speed practice panning.... people running, cars etc. start with big birds and work your way smaller experiment with focus settings... I have used first shot frame priority and the rest of the frames release priority. As long as the first frame has focus, the distance between the next 7 shots is short when you have 8fps so sometimes it is easier for the continuous focus to keep up with the subject hope these make sense good luck and let us know how you make out! Randy