Focus help with K-3 birds in flight

**Lmcfarrin** · 06-18-2018, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by ajaxmgr

Thank y'all for your response, I am using a sigma50-500, hand held. I use the shutter half down approach. Should I use the af button on the back?

Yes. Use back button focus, continuos af, group af points in the center. To help keep af optimized, rapidly press and depress back button while panning/tracking bird, and while keeping shutter button pressed constantly. This will allow the camera to reacquire focus more efficiently than relying on the camera's continuous af.

audiobomber · 06-24-2018, 06:06 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by jacamar

I have tried Audiobomber's approach but can't make it work for me. I have difficulty locking the centre focus point onto the subject, then I just have a bunch of red dots fluttering around it and out-of-focus shots. I find it easier to lock on with spot focus, though it doesn't work 100% of the time.

A bit more explanation is warranted here.

When you half-press the shutter in Expanded Area AF-C mode, the camera tries to find focus on the central point. As soon as focus is confirmed, you need to take the shot. If you don't take the shot, the camera assumes that it has selected the wrong target, and starts to search adjacent points. When you take the shot, the camera records the shape and colour of the object in focus and begins tracking. It tracks until you let up on the shutter button.

If you have accidentally focussed on something other than the subject, say a cloud in the background, that is what the camera will track. If this happens, you need to stop and restart tracking by letting up and re-depressing the shutter button. This is called focus bumping. Sometimes the camera loses focus during a sequence. This again calls for focus bumping. IME, the K-3 is very good at tracking with the settings I listed above, and given a fast focussing lens like the DA*300 or 55-300mm PLM. Tracking a BIF with the older 55-300mm lenses is possible, but you will have a lot more missed opportunities.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/332226-focus-h...ml#post3806571

**jacamar** · 06-24-2018, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

A bit more explanation is warranted here

Thanks audiobomber - I'll keep working on it.

normhead · 06-24-2018, 09:22 AM

The one time I set up with audiobomboers setting and had some Terns it was pretty amazing watching those AF points move around and keep the Tern I was focussed on in focus. But, setting up AF-c does lead to slower focus acquisition in my experience, but once you're locked on you're way ahead of the game.

**Mikesul** · 07-03-2018, 08:46 AM

Yes, properly used AFC is almost magic. But it is easy to use in the wrong situation or not set it up right. One more of those complexities which makes our hobby so continuously interesting

Kaladran · 07-29-2018, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

A bit more explanation is warranted here.

When you half-press the shutter in Expanded Area AF-C mode, the camera tries to find focus on the central point. As soon as focus is confirmed, you need to take the shot. If you don't take the shot, the camera assumes that it has selected the wrong target, and starts to search adjacent points. When you take the shot, the camera records the shape and colour of the object in focus and begins tracking. It tracks until you let up on the shutter button.

If you have accidentally focussed on something other than the subject, say a cloud in the background, that is what the camera will track. If this happens, you need to stop and restart tracking by letting up and re-depressing the shutter button. This is called focus bumping. Sometimes the camera loses focus during a sequence. This again calls for focus bumping. IME, the K-3 is very good at tracking with the settings I listed above, and given a fast focussing lens like the DA*300 or 55-300mm PLM. Tracking a BIF with the older 55-300mm lenses is possible, but you will have a lot more missed opportunities.

Focus help with K-3 birds in flight - PentaxForums.com

This is really interesting, clearly I have a lot to learn about the AF functions still.

Landak · 07-29-2018, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Kaladran

This is really interesting, clearly I have a lot to learn about the AF functions still.

Me too!

Am I right in thinking that using a smaller number of AF points -- e.g. the 3x3 grid on my KS-2 -- doesn't actually seem to speed it up *that* much? The centre spot does, but it's still obviously doing a calculation later on.

audiobomber · 07-29-2018, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Landak

Me too!

Am I right in thinking that using a smaller number of AF points -- e.g. the 3x3 grid on my KS-2 -- doesn't actually seem to speed it up *that* much? The centre spot does, but it's still obviously doing a calculation later on.

I don't see that fewer AF points should matter. When using extended area AF, initial acquisition is concentrated on the specified point only. The outer points are not in play.

I do use the 9-point array, expanded area AF for sports, where the target is not moving so quickly. With a BIF however, I can not keep the bird in the center, so the outermost points are best kept in play.

sutherland · 08-12-2018, 06:51 AM

I know this is an older post, but I will answer with 'depends'. I think you 'could' be more satisfied with AFS/Single Point if the subject is, for example, a Heron or a surveying Harrier. I value the speed and output of AFS over AFC's better tracking. Reason being, with gliding/surveying birds, you have the ability to re-establish focus and designate the area of emphasis.

User 1 Settings:
TAv
AFS (Half Press Shutter for Focus is ON)
Spot Meter
Single Point
Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3

User 2 Settings:
TAv
AFC (Half Press Shutter for Focus is OFF)
Back Button Focus
Spot Meter
Auto 9
SR Off
Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3

In both User Programs, I have my starting Shutter Speed set to 1000 and Aperture set to 7.1.
- U1 is used for almost all of my Bird Photography
- U2 is set to 'typical' Birds in Flight (however I seldom shoot in this mode)

**pasorro** · 08-12-2018, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by sutherland

I know this is an older post, but I will answer with 'depends'. I think you 'could' be more satisfied with AFS/Single Point if the subject is, for example, a Heron or a surveying Harrier. I value the speed and output of AFS over AFC's better tracking. Reason being, with gliding/surveying birds, you have the ability to re-establish focus and designate the area of emphasis.

User 1 Settings:
TAv
AFS (Half Press Shutter for Focus is ON)
Spot Meter
Single Point
Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3

User 2 Settings:
TAv
AFC (Half Press Shutter for Focus is OFF)
Back Button Focus
Spot Meter
Auto 9
SR Off
Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3

In both User Programs, I have my starting Shutter Speed set to 1000 and Aperture set to 7.1.
- U1 is used for almost all of my Bird Photography
- U2 is set to 'typical' Birds in Flight (however I seldom shoot in this mode)

Are you sure that user modes save the shutter and af back button settings?

sutherland · 08-13-2018, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by pasorro

Are you sure that user modes save the shutter and af back button settings?

Yup. Saves both.

sutherland · 08-13-2018, 08:14 AM

Meant to make one correction:

User 2 Settings:
TAv
AFC (Half Press Shutter for Focus is OFF)
Back Button Focus
Spot Meter
Auto 9, Center Focus 9
SR Off
Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3

I do have better luck with the Center Focus (Single, 9, or 25) than I do with the Auto Focus modes.

I've always kept '17. Action in AF.C Continuous Shooting' in '1. Focus Priority'. Switching it up to '3. FPS-Priority' for my next couple outings and see if 'output' beats out 'precision'.

I've always kept '18. Hold AF Status' in '3. Medium'. As with above, going to switch with 'Off'.

I assume for Hold AF Status, it really depends on the predictability of the subject in flight and the environment around them.

Assuming it's a Bird against a Sky, Hold AF Status can be Off to Low. There is little in the way of obstruction.
Assuming the Bird is flying in a clear plain and there are some shrubs/trees it passes behind, I would imagine Low to Medium could be well suited.

If this were a Cyclocross event and you were capturing participants as they pass your position on the trail, Medium to High might be well suited as all are staying on a track and you are stationary.

audiobomber · 08-14-2018, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by sutherland

I know this is an older post, but I will answer with 'depends'. I think you 'could' be more satisfied with AFS/Single Point if the subject is, for example, a Heron or a surveying Harrier. I value the speed and output of AFS over AFC's better tracking. Reason being, with gliding/surveying birds, you have the ability to re-establish focus and designate the area of emphasis.

I can't agree with AF-S for birds in flight. May work fine if the bird is flying horizontally. If it is flying toward you, by the time you focus and get the shot off, the head will likely be out of the focal plane. You're much better off with AF-C and expanded area, let the camera assist with
tracking.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/6...ml#post4400157

sutherland · 08-14-2018, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I can't agree with AF-S for birds in flight. May work fine if the bird is flying horizontally. If it is flying toward you, by the time you focus and get the shot off, the head will likely be out of the focal plane. You're much better off with AF-C and expanded area, let the camera assist with
tracking.

BIF Photography - Page 21 - PentaxForums.com

I think it comes down to preference and confidence in the AFC handling. Personally, I haven't had much success. I plan on going out this weekend with a few setting changes to see if I have better luck, but as it stands today, my track record with birds in flight is weighted towards AF-S.

Mundj · 08-26-2018, 08:15 PM

You might want to check the Steve Perry Back Country Photography site. He is a Nikon user that uses Auto-ISO, our TAV mode, with the Back Focus Button, and continuous multiple shots. He uses 9 focus points.

06-24-2018, 06:06 AM - 2 Likes	#32
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by jacamar I have tried Audiobomber's approach but can't make it work for me. I have difficulty locking the centre focus point onto the subject, then I just have a bunch of red dots fluttering around it and out-of-focus shots. I find it easier to lock on with spot focus, though it doesn't work 100% of the time. A bit more explanation is warranted here. When you half-press the shutter in Expanded Area AF-C mode, the camera tries to find focus on the central point. As soon as focus is confirmed, you need to take the shot. If you don't take the shot, the camera assumes that it has selected the wrong target, and starts to search adjacent points. When you take the shot, the camera records the shape and colour of the object in focus and begins tracking. It tracks until you let up on the shutter button. If you have accidentally focussed on something other than the subject, say a cloud in the background, that is what the camera will track. If this happens, you need to stop and restart tracking by letting up and re-depressing the shutter button. This is called focus bumping. Sometimes the camera loses focus during a sequence. This again calls for focus bumping. IME, the K-3 is very good at tracking with the settings I listed above, and given a fast focussing lens like the DA300 or 55-300mm PLM. Tracking a BIF with the older 55-300mm lenses is possible, but you will have a lot more missed opportunities. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/332226-focus-h...ml#post3806571 Last edited by audiobomber; 06-25-2018 at 05:29 AM.*

07-29-2018, 02:58 PM	#38
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Landak Me too! Am I right in thinking that using a smaller number of AF points -- e.g. the 3x3 grid on my KS-2 -- doesn't actually seem to speed it up that much? The centre spot does, but it's still obviously doing a calculation later on. I don't see that fewer AF points should matter. When using extended area AF, initial acquisition is concentrated on the specified point only. The outer points are not in play. I do use the 9-point array, expanded area AF for sports, where the target is not moving so quickly. With a BIF however, I can not keep the bird in the center, so the outermost points are best kept in play. Last edited by audiobomber; 07-30-2018 at 01:56 PM.

08-13-2018, 08:14 AM	#42
sutherland Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 220	Meant to make one correction: User 2 Settings: TAv AFC (Half Press Shutter for Focus is OFF) Back Button Focus Spot Meter Auto 9, Center Focus 9 SR Off Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3 I do have better luck with the Center Focus (Single, 9, or 25) than I do with the Auto Focus modes. I've always kept '17. Action in AF.C Continuous Shooting' in '1. Focus Priority'. Switching it up to '3. FPS-Priority' for my next couple outings and see if 'output' beats out 'precision'. I've always kept '18. Hold AF Status' in '3. Medium'. As with above, going to switch with 'Off'. I assume for Hold AF Status, it really depends on the predictability of the subject in flight and the environment around them. Assuming it's a Bird against a Sky, Hold AF Status can be Off to Low. There is little in the way of obstruction. Assuming the Bird is flying in a clear plain and there are some shrubs/trees it passes behind, I would imagine Low to Medium could be well suited. If this were a Cyclocross event and you were capturing participants as they pass your position on the trail, Medium to High might be well suited as all are staying on a track and you are stationary. Last edited by sutherland; 08-13-2018 at 09:21 AM.

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06-18-2018, 09:39 PM	#31
Lmcfarrin Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Indiana Photos: Albums Posts: 760	Originally posted by ajaxmgr Thank y'all for your response, I am using a sigma50-500, hand held. I use the shutter half down approach. Should I use the af button on the back? Yes. Use back button focus, continuos af, group af points in the center. To help keep af optimized, rapidly press and depress back button while panning/tracking bird, and while keeping shutter button pressed constantly. This will allow the camera to reacquire focus more efficiently than relying on the camera's continuous af.

06-24-2018, 08:56 AM	#33
jacamar Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Toronto Photos: Albums Posts: 3,155	Originally posted by audiobomber A bit more explanation is warranted here Thanks audiobomber - I'll keep working on it.

06-24-2018, 09:22 AM	#34
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,420	The one time I set up with audiobomboers setting and had some Terns it was pretty amazing watching those AF points move around and keep the Tern I was focussed on in focus. But, setting up AF-c does lead to slower focus acquisition in my experience, but once you're locked on you're way ahead of the game.

07-03-2018, 08:46 AM	#35
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,129	Yes, properly used AFC is almost magic. But it is easy to use in the wrong situation or not set it up right. One more of those complexities which makes our hobby so continuously interesting

07-29-2018, 07:57 AM	#36
Kaladran Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 196	Originally posted by audiobomber A bit more explanation is warranted here. When you half-press the shutter in Expanded Area AF-C mode, the camera tries to find focus on the central point. As soon as focus is confirmed, you need to take the shot. If you don't take the shot, the camera assumes that it has selected the wrong target, and starts to search adjacent points. When you take the shot, the camera records the shape and colour of the object in focus and begins tracking. It tracks until you let up on the shutter button. If you have accidentally focussed on something other than the subject, say a cloud in the background, that is what the camera will track. If this happens, you need to stop and restart tracking by letting up and re-depressing the shutter button. This is called focus bumping. Sometimes the camera loses focus during a sequence. This again calls for focus bumping. IME, the K-3 is very good at tracking with the settings I listed above, and given a fast focussing lens like the DA*300 or 55-300mm PLM. Tracking a BIF with the older 55-300mm lenses is possible, but you will have a lot more missed opportunities. Focus help with K-3 birds in flight - PentaxForums.com This is really interesting, clearly I have a lot to learn about the AF functions still.

07-29-2018, 10:03 AM	#37
Landak Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 26	Originally posted by Kaladran This is really interesting, clearly I have a lot to learn about the AF functions still. Me too! Am I right in thinking that using a smaller number of AF points -- e.g. the 3x3 grid on my KS-2 -- doesn't actually seem to speed it up that much? The centre spot does, but it's still obviously doing a calculation later on.

08-12-2018, 06:51 AM	#39
sutherland Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 220	I know this is an older post, but I will answer with 'depends'. I think you 'could' be more satisfied with AFS/Single Point if the subject is, for example, a Heron or a surveying Harrier. I value the speed and output of AFS over AFC's better tracking. Reason being, with gliding/surveying birds, you have the ability to re-establish focus and designate the area of emphasis. User 1 Settings: TAv AFS (Half Press Shutter for Focus is ON) Spot Meter Single Point Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3 User 2 Settings: TAv AFC (Half Press Shutter for Focus is OFF) Back Button Focus Spot Meter Auto 9 SR Off Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3 In both User Programs, I have my starting Shutter Speed set to 1000 and Aperture set to 7.1. - U1 is used for almost all of my Bird Photography - U2 is set to 'typical' Birds in Flight (however I seldom shoot in this mode)

08-12-2018, 11:00 PM	#40
pasorro Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 132	Originally posted by sutherland I know this is an older post, but I will answer with 'depends'. I think you 'could' be more satisfied with AFS/Single Point if the subject is, for example, a Heron or a surveying Harrier. I value the speed and output of AFS over AFC's better tracking. Reason being, with gliding/surveying birds, you have the ability to re-establish focus and designate the area of emphasis. User 1 Settings: TAv AFS (Half Press Shutter for Focus is ON) Spot Meter Single Point Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3 User 2 Settings: TAv AFC (Half Press Shutter for Focus is OFF) Back Button Focus Spot Meter Auto 9 SR Off Custom Menu Settings: 16: 3, 17: 1, 18: 3 In both User Programs, I have my starting Shutter Speed set to 1000 and Aperture set to 7.1. - U1 is used for almost all of my Bird Photography - U2 is set to 'typical' Birds in Flight (however I seldom shoot in this mode) Are you sure that user modes save the shutter and af back button settings?

08-13-2018, 06:16 AM	#41
sutherland Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 220	Originally posted by pasorro Are you sure that user modes save the shutter and af back button settings? Yup. Saves both.

08-14-2018, 10:43 AM	#43
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by sutherland I know this is an older post, but I will answer with 'depends'. I think you 'could' be more satisfied with AFS/Single Point if the subject is, for example, a Heron or a surveying Harrier. I value the speed and output of AFS over AFC's better tracking. Reason being, with gliding/surveying birds, you have the ability to re-establish focus and designate the area of emphasis. I can't agree with AF-S for birds in flight. May work fine if the bird is flying horizontally. If it is flying toward you, by the time you focus and get the shot off, the head will likely be out of the focal plane. You're much better off with AF-C and expanded area, let the camera assist with tracking. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/6...ml#post4400157

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08-14-2018, 08:09 PM	#44
sutherland Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 220	Originally posted by audiobomber I can't agree with AF-S for birds in flight. May work fine if the bird is flying horizontally. If it is flying toward you, by the time you focus and get the shot off, the head will likely be out of the focal plane. You're much better off with AF-C and expanded area, let the camera assist with tracking. BIF Photography - Page 21 - PentaxForums.com I think it comes down to preference and confidence in the AFC handling. Personally, I haven't had much success. I plan on going out this weekend with a few setting changes to see if I have better luck, but as it stands today, my track record with birds in flight is weighted towards AF-S.

08-26-2018, 08:15 PM	#45
Mundj Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Richmond, TX Posts: 75	You might want to check the Steve Perry Back Country Photography site. He is a Nikon user that uses Auto-ISO, our TAV mode, with the Back Focus Button, and continuous multiple shots. He uses 9 focus points.