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04-01-2017, 04:36 AM   #16
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Looking at EXIF, that has to be from the 50-200, right? That's actually better than expected. Did you use the 28mm or the 50 much?

04-01-2017, 05:39 AM   #17
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That's a ( 1 ) for sure ! A family tradition started ( Have at It )!
04-01-2017, 08:00 AM   #18
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That's good! And the cake seems to taste good too!

That said, at 90mm and for kids portrait during a birthday party, a slightly higher shutter speed than 1/125 is usually preferred. Something like 1/250 will show a noticeable improvement to prevent blur from subject movement and increase the number of keepers.
04-01-2017, 08:27 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
That said, at 90mm and for kids portrait during a birthday party, a slightly higher shutter speed than 1/125 is usually preferred. Something like 1/250 will show a noticeable improvement to prevent blur from subject movement and increase the number of keepers.
The issue is how well the 50-200 handles being used wide open; stopping down a fair amount is a good way to clear up the image quality, and that's going to necessitate longer exposures.

I think, all said and done, he did pretty well with that shot with the tools used.

04-01-2017, 04:48 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Looking at EXIF, that has to be from the 50-200, right? That's actually better than expected. Did you use the 28mm or the 50 much?
No, I only used the 28mm for a couple shots, and they didn't even come out well. It's manual focus, and there was so much movement going on...also, with the crop factor on my k-30 it didn't even capture the whole room very well, so I quickly decided to swap to my 50-200 and focus on getting candid closeups of the kids, and family...maybe a few with a couple people laughing in frame...but most of it was of the little guy himself...I really need to get an 18-55mm kit lens to round out my el Cheapo gear that I have so far, lol.

---------- Post added 04-01-17 at 05:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
That's good! And the cake seems to taste good too!

That said, at 90mm and for kids portrait during a birthday party, a slightly higher shutter speed than 1/125 is usually preferred. Something like 1/250 will show a noticeable improvement to prevent blur from subject movement and increase the number of keepers.
Yea, I found that out once I loaded them and saw them on my monitor. They looked sharp on the display on my camera, but alas I was wrong. Lesson learned. I should've stopped being a wimp, and brought my bounce flash, but I just can't seem to get the hang of flash photography. I hate pictures that look like a flash was used, except in very specific scenarios (i.e. that Hollywood, red carpet look). The house the party was at has all white ceilings and walls, and multiple windows, that I opened the blinds on as soon as I got there, but it was still all available light. Using the gear I had how would I go about using a bounce to keep the light looking natural, and not cause the background to become so dark...which seems to be my issue with the technique I'm using.

Also, other than my ineptitude with the flash, I also feel like a big old flash is just distracting to people. I like to capture candid moments, and people talking or laughing, same with kids, but when I'm using a flash I feel like people just don't act natural...especially kids. Any advice? I know that might be a tough one.
04-01-2017, 07:15 PM   #21
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The Kit 18-55mm WR takes a bad rap as does the use of a Flash especially with small children. Small children have extremely soft skin texture and a soft flash helps to bring out the softness. (make sure any drool is wiped). I let the ISO go up to 3200 even with the Popup Flash. Without the flash I would have opened up the lens to 2 stops and probably increased the ISO as well. For well lit subjects I like to keep the Aperture of this lens @ f5.6 or higher. These are candids and I don't intend on printing them any larger than say 8" X 10" and Slide Show on my 42" Samsung TV look great!


Here is a Photo from today using my Kit 18-55WR and the Popup on my K3.
The cake girl turned 2 today. Notice how refined she has become in just 1 Year. She 's using a plastic fork.

Last edited by honey bo bo; 10-25-2017 at 08:09 AM.
04-01-2017, 09:34 PM   #22
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DA-L 18-55's are really cheap on some of the online auction sites. They're probably cheap here; under $100 USD is probably a fair price to pay for one in pretty great condition from what I'm seeing. DA-L's are the plastic mount version but they're still available in WR form and are going to be lighter than ones with a metal mount. These lenses are still pretty slow, really, and need to be stopped down a bit like your 50-200.

For a cheap light grabber the DA 35 f2.4 "plastic fantastic" prime might be a good compromise. I've used mine back when I was shooting a lot of pictures of bands playing in bars. These seem to be available for about $150 brand new from reputable vendors; used they're not a lot cheaper from what I'm seeing. Note that the autofocus is pretty loud with this lens. It weighs so little and is quite small. I feel like 35mm on a crop camera is a lot easier to use than a 50mm for indoor shots of people or groups.

Lots of options.
04-02-2017, 05:12 AM   #23
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The DA 50/1.8 is an even cheaper, even grabbier (as regards light) option if you have the space to back up in, but not everyone has that. There was a whole rash of them for sale here on the forum when Ricoh were shoving K3 bodies out the door ahead of the discontinuation. These were the kit lens, and plenty of people already had it (or something better) so they were selling them unused (practically unopened; the only reason they even broke into the box was to prove to the buyer it was in there). It was also around the time this lens was being sold new for under $100 US. Not sure those days will ever come again, but it's still a great little lens.

Its chief advantage over the kit lenses is that it's two and a bit stops faster than the 50-200's and over three stops faster than the 18-55/18-50 options at the same focal length. That makes a HUGE difference if you must forego flash, and increases the range of the onboard flash immensely. It's also a stop faster than the 35/2.4, but that again presumes you have space to back up into. No WR, no quickshift, but it does have AF of course, and it's the current king of cheap, fast but still competent Pentax AF lenses; all the F and FA lenses I've ever seen are more expensive, even used, and you have to go manual focus before you find anything less pricey.

04-02-2017, 05:23 AM   #24
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If a 50mm prime is acceptable, F 50 1.7's are usually available used for around $100 USD. I have a hunch that they're quieter when auto focusing than the DA 50 1.8 and I think the IQ may be a slight amount better. That said, for what the OP was trying to do, I think the 35 would offer a better field of view on a crop body. He'd also probably have a good idea of which more suits him as he's already got an M 50 1.7.
04-02-2017, 06:43 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by honey bo bo Quote
The cake girl turned 2 today. Notice how refined she has become in just 1 Year. She 's using a plastic fork.
Give her the same cake as when she was one and tell her to have at it, and I'm sure the havoc she'd wreak would be exponentially greater. However, that's an experiment you might want to run outside and have the bath warm and ready for afterwards...
04-02-2017, 06:56 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vicioustuna2012 Quote
Yea, I found that out once I loaded them and saw them on my monitor. They looked sharp on the display on my camera, but alas I was wrong. Lesson learned. I should've stopped being a wimp, and brought my bounce flash, but I just can't seem to get the hang of flash photography. I hate pictures that look like a flash was used, except in very specific scenarios (i.e. that Hollywood, red carpet look). The house the party was at has all white ceilings and walls, and multiple windows, that I opened the blinds on as soon as I got there, but it was still all available light. Using the gear I had how would I go about using a bounce to keep the light looking natural, and not cause the background to become so dark...which seems to be my issue with the technique I'm using.

Also, other than my ineptitude with the flash, I also feel like a big old flash is just distracting to people. I like to capture candid moments, and people talking or laughing, same with kids, but when I'm using a flash I feel like people just don't act natural...especially kids. Any advice? I know that might be a tough one.
I don't know which flash you're using for bouncing, but with a bit of practice and a TTL flash, you can get really good results without the "flash look". You can get some really good tips and tutotrials on bounce flash by reading the articles on Tangents. For people looking natural, I never found the flash to be a problem. It's more the DSLR by itself than the flash that makes them uncomfortable, and kids really don't care usually. With bounce flash, you also don't send the light right into their eyes, which is way less intrusive for them.

Here's a quick example of a candid with a flash (Metz 52 AF-1 in P-TTL mode) bounced above my right shoulder, and a 55-300 zoom. It doesn't look "flashed" and, in this case, way much better than natural light only, which would have a been a backlight situation leading to a blown background at high ISO. This is an OOC jpeg.


Last edited by CarlJF; 04-02-2017 at 07:53 AM.
04-02-2017, 08:04 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Give her the same cake as when she was one and tell her to have at it, and I'm sure the havoc she'd wreak would be exponentially greater. However, that's an experiment you might want to run outside and have the bath warm and ready for afterwards...

She's a precious Grand Child and we love her dearly but she has to Lawyer Up every so often at Day Care. So I wont take a chance on reversing any advancements she's got to becoming a productive member of society. I continue to photograph her in the best light (pun intended) in case needed in any future Character examinations.
04-04-2017, 04:40 PM   #28
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I know you already finished this, but for future reference but my tips for shooting these kinds of family events involving little kids are:
1) Use as fast of a shutter speed as possible.
2) Use a smaller aperture than you think is necessary. You want to maximize your depth of field.
3) Don't be afraid of shooting at high ISOs. With K-5s and newer you can easily get away with shooting at ISO 6400 and make good prints of 8x10 or larger with good post processing. And be realistic, if you aren't going to be printing larger than that or are just going to be displaying these downsized online, you can crank up the ISO even higher.
4) Use a wider field of view than you think is necessary, you can always crop afterwards.
04-04-2017, 06:27 PM   #29
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Yeah, I think you found from your keeper percentage (that you imply wasn't great), use AF, keep the shutter speed high and get better at flash.

You had white walls and ceiling so bounce was feasible, otherwise you can use a mini-softbox.

Last edited by clackers; 04-04-2017 at 06:34 PM.
04-06-2017, 01:23 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vicioustuna2012 Quote
I really need to get an 18-55mm kit lens to round out my el Cheapo gear that I have so far, lol.
An 18-55 is probably the best "el Cheapo" way to round out your kit with a very useful range. You'll still have the same issues in low light though.

If you can save up, I'd recommend watching for a used Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 which can be found for $175 -$200 on eBay. The constant f/2.8 allows a good bit more light through than any of the 18-55 kit lenses, and the 17mm on the wide end lets you fit just a little bit more in the frame. My first lens was a DA 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 WR but when I got my Tamron 17-50 it took over as my favorite, and it's on my camera about 90% of the time. I barely even use my DA 50mm f/1.8 or DA 35mm f/2.4 because it's really that good of a lens. (I still use the 18-135 outside in good light and foul weather, but those are pricey and you've got the long end covered with your 50-200.)

I just recently snagged a deal on a Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 which is almost the same but with a silent focus motor instead of a screw drive like the Tamron. Unfortunately it's heavier, bulkier, and has some overexposure issues in bright backlighting or outside. I'm still deciding if I can live without the quieter focusing and I may end up selling the Sigma and keeping the Tamron.

As another note, I tried a Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.0 initially but ended up selling it because the constant f/2.8 of the Tamron 17-50 is more useful to me. The Tamron is also sharper, so a cropped 50mm image was as good as a 70mm image with the 17-70. The Sigma 17-70 would still be an improvement over the 18-55 kit lenses though.

That being said, if a used 17-50 or 17-70 is still out of your budget you really can't go wrong with a cheap DA 18-55. We've all got to start somewhere, and if you can snag a WR version you'll also be covered in case it rains no matter what lenses you end up using in the future.
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