Macro How to get good bokeh

**Skodadriver** · 05-11-2017, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Alex645

Agree with all the above, and yes, if the aperture isnʻt wide open, both the number of blades and if they are rounded or not will affect bokeh.

In general, odd number of blades are preferred and rounded blades create softer, less harsh bokeh.

One other key element is going to be specular light sources in the background such as from leaves or surface water sparkles, etc.

Thanks for the replies from all of you, so the spectacular (or weird) bokeh from the Helios 44-2(etc) wide open is just the result of the aperture blades?

Nuno Almeida · 05-11-2017, 11:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Skodadriver

Thanks for the replies from all of you, so the spectacular (or weird) bokeh from the Helios 44-2(etc) wide open is just the result of the aperture blades?

Nope, Optical configuration. Shape, number, disposition of the optical elements

**Skodadriver** · 05-11-2017, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Nuno Almeida

Nope, Optical configuration. Shape, number, disposition of the optical elements

That is what I was wondering. Thank you.

**Alex645** · 05-12-2017, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Skodadriver

Thanks for the replies from all of you, so the spectacular (or weird) bokeh from the Helios 44-2(etc) wide open is just the result of the aperture blades?

As stated above, "weird" bokeh as in the case of the Helios 44-2, is a result of older element/group lens design (or lack of) before our current day lens pixel peeping analysis of center to corners resolution, vignetting, chromatic aberration, distortion, etc. This 'retro' look is being revived by Lomography's Petzval series like:
Lomography Petzval 58mm f/1.9 Bokeh Control Art Lens Z260N B&H
and Lensbaby Twist series like:
Lensbaby Twist 60 Optic with Straight Body for Nikon F LBT60N

Neither Lomo or Lensbaby make a Pentax mount for those bokeh specialized lenses, but Pentaxians have the option of many Soviet-era lenses like the Helios which can be tack sharp at dead center, but wide open reveals flaws off-center to the scientist and magic to the artist.

Note: I wrote and meant "specular" not "spectacular". Specular as in a mirror-like circular light reflections off shiny surfaces.

**Skodadriver** · 05-12-2017, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Alex645

As stated above, "weird" bokeh as in the case of the Helios 44-2, is a result of older element/group lens design (or lack of) before our current day lens pixel peeping analysis of center to corners resolution, vignetting, chromatic aberration, distortion, etc. This 'retro' look is being revived by Lomography's Petzval series like:
Lomography Petzval 58mm f/1.9 Bokeh Control Art Lens Z260N B&H
and Lensbaby Twist series like:
Lensbaby Twist 60 Optic with Straight Body for Nikon F LBT60N

Neither Lomo or Lensbaby make a Pentax mount for those bokeh specialized lenses, but Pentaxians have the option of many Soviet-era lenses like the Helios which can be tack sharp at dead center, but wide open reveals flaws off-center to the scientist and magic to the artist.

Note: I wrote and meant "specular" not "spectacular". Specular as in a mirror-like circular light reflections off shiny surfaces.

Thank you Alex645, I understood your "specular" reference, my use of "spectacular" was regarding the out of focus areas in an image from a Helios-44 being eye-catching.
So the specular can be spectacular! Or weird or ugly depending on the viewer's opinion.
My apologies.

Toni60 · 05-13-2017, 12:11 PM - **1 Like**

I just tried following your suggestions with my K5IIs and 100mm macro 2.8 WR, I hope that the result is pretty good.
Thanks, Toni.

**W.j.christy** · 05-15-2017, 11:51 AM

Nice. I'd say it turned out well.

Toni60 · 05-15-2017, 10:00 PM

Thanks.

photolady95 · 05-15-2017, 11:25 PM

You did good!

Toni60 · 05-16-2017, 12:25 AM

Thanks photolady95.

**shardulm** · 05-17-2017, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Toni60

I just tried following your suggestions with my K5IIs and 100mm macro 2.8 WR, I hope that the result is pretty good.
Thanks, Toni.

Turned out pretty good.
I would also try this out with a white backdrop (a foam board or card paper that you get in dollar stores) thrown on the floor covering the fov to see what I get. This technique pretty much allows you to make pictures (especially with flowers) without worrying about the bokeh.

---------- Post added 05-17-17 at 01:47 PM ----------

Originally posted by photolady95

For macro's you need to be close to your subject and use a smaller fstop, not wide open at least an f8 or more. I use inbetween f8 and f16. Like this: M lens didn't record f stop but it was f16.
For viewing the larger version, click on the photo.

For other than macro shots, what Nuno said is good.

Wow Creamylicious.. Is that even a word?

photolady95 · 05-17-2017, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by shardulm

Wow Creamylicious.. Is that even a word?

Not sure about the word but thanks for the compliment. There are others in flickr if you care to browse there. Click in my signature.

**shardulm** · 05-17-2017, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by photolady95

Not sure about the word but thanks for the compliment. There are others in flickr if you care to browse there. Click in my signature.

I already did.

Toni60 · 05-17-2017, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by shardulm

Turned out pretty good.
I would also try this out with a white backdrop (a foam board or card paper that you get in dollar stores) thrown on the floor covering the fov to see what I get. This technique pretty much allows you to make pictures (especially with flowers) without worrying about the bokeh.

---------- Post added 05-17-17 at 01:47 PM ----------

Wow Creamylicious.. Is that even a word?

Thanks shardulm.
Toni

05-17-2017, 10:34 AM	#26
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793	Originally posted by Toni60 I just tried following your suggestions with my K5IIs and 100mm macro 2.8 WR, I hope that the result is pretty good. Thanks, Toni. Turned out pretty good. I would also try this out with a white backdrop (a foam board or card paper that you get in dollar stores) thrown on the floor covering the fov to see what I get. This technique pretty much allows you to make pictures (especially with flowers) without worrying about the bokeh. ---------- Post added 05-17-17 at 01:47 PM ---------- Originally posted by photolady95 For macro's you need to be close to your subject and use a smaller fstop, not wide open at least an f8 or more. I use inbetween f8 and f16. Like this: M lens didn't record f stop but it was f16. For viewing the larger version, click on the photo. For other than macro shots, what Nuno said is good. Wow Creamylicious.. Is that even a word? Last edited by shardulm; 05-17-2017 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Added info.

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05-11-2017, 10:54 PM	#16
Skodadriver Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 892	Originally posted by Alex645 Agree with all the above, and yes, if the aperture isnʻt wide open, both the number of blades and if they are rounded or not will affect bokeh. In general, odd number of blades are preferred and rounded blades create softer, less harsh bokeh. One other key element is going to be specular light sources in the background such as from leaves or surface water sparkles, etc. Thanks for the replies from all of you, so the spectacular (or weird) bokeh from the Helios 44-2(etc) wide open is just the result of the aperture blades?

05-11-2017, 11:01 PM - 1 Like	#17
Nuno Almeida Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Aveiro Posts: 179	Originally posted by Skodadriver Thanks for the replies from all of you, so the spectacular (or weird) bokeh from the Helios 44-2(etc) wide open is just the result of the aperture blades? Nope, Optical configuration. Shape, number, disposition of the optical elements

05-11-2017, 11:05 PM	#18
Skodadriver Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 892	Originally posted by Nuno Almeida Nope, Optical configuration. Shape, number, disposition of the optical elements That is what I was wondering. Thank you.

05-12-2017, 10:41 AM	#19
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by Skodadriver Thanks for the replies from all of you, so the spectacular (or weird) bokeh from the Helios 44-2(etc) wide open is just the result of the aperture blades? As stated above, "weird" bokeh as in the case of the Helios 44-2, is a result of older element/group lens design (or lack of) before our current day lens pixel peeping analysis of center to corners resolution, vignetting, chromatic aberration, distortion, etc. This 'retro' look is being revived by Lomography's Petzval series like: Lomography Petzval 58mm f/1.9 Bokeh Control Art Lens Z260N B&H and Lensbaby Twist series like: Lensbaby Twist 60 Optic with Straight Body for Nikon F LBT60N Neither Lomo or Lensbaby make a Pentax mount for those bokeh specialized lenses, but Pentaxians have the option of many Soviet-era lenses like the Helios which can be tack sharp at dead center, but wide open reveals flaws off-center to the scientist and magic to the artist. Note: I wrote and meant "specular" not "spectacular". Specular as in a mirror-like circular light reflections off shiny surfaces.

05-12-2017, 12:40 PM	#20
Skodadriver Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 892	Originally posted by Alex645 As stated above, "weird" bokeh as in the case of the Helios 44-2, is a result of older element/group lens design (or lack of) before our current day lens pixel peeping analysis of center to corners resolution, vignetting, chromatic aberration, distortion, etc. This 'retro' look is being revived by Lomography's Petzval series like: Lomography Petzval 58mm f/1.9 Bokeh Control Art Lens Z260N B&H and Lensbaby Twist series like: Lensbaby Twist 60 Optic with Straight Body for Nikon F LBT60N Neither Lomo or Lensbaby make a Pentax mount for those bokeh specialized lenses, but Pentaxians have the option of many Soviet-era lenses like the Helios which can be tack sharp at dead center, but wide open reveals flaws off-center to the scientist and magic to the artist. Note: I wrote and meant "specular" not "spectacular". Specular as in a mirror-like circular light reflections off shiny surfaces. Thank you Alex645, I understood your "specular" reference, my use of "spectacular" was regarding the out of focus areas in an image from a Helios-44 being eye-catching. So the specular can be spectacular! Or weird or ugly depending on the viewer's opinion. My apologies.

05-15-2017, 11:51 AM	#22
W.j.christy Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Texas Photos: Albums Posts: 558	Nice. I'd say it turned out well.

05-15-2017, 10:00 PM	#23
Toni60 Forum Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 97 Original Poster	Thanks.

05-15-2017, 11:25 PM	#24
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	You did good!

05-16-2017, 12:25 AM	#25
Toni60 Forum Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 97 Original Poster	Thanks photolady95.

05-17-2017, 11:44 AM	#27
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	Originally posted by shardulm Wow Creamylicious.. Is that even a word? Not sure about the word but thanks for the compliment. There are others in flickr if you care to browse there. Click in my signature.

05-17-2017, 11:57 AM	#28
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793	Originally posted by photolady95 Not sure about the word but thanks for the compliment. There are others in flickr if you care to browse there. Click in my signature. I already did.

05-17-2017, 12:05 PM	#29
Toni60 Forum Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 97 Original Poster	Originally posted by shardulm Turned out pretty good. I would also try this out with a white backdrop (a foam board or card paper that you get in dollar stores) thrown on the floor covering the fov to see what I get. This technique pretty much allows you to make pictures (especially with flowers) without worrying about the bokeh. ---------- Post added 05-17-17 at 01:47 PM ---------- Wow Creamylicious.. Is that even a word? Thanks shardulm. Toni