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05-11-2017, 05:50 AM   #1
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How to get good bokeh

Please, I need your help in order to understand how to obtain this fantastic bokeh with the flower or if exist a guide for this. I like a lot to photograph the flowers but until now I have difficult to have a decent bokeh.
Thanks, Toni.

05-11-2017, 08:02 AM   #2
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Hi Toni60, I've moved your post from the 2 year old thread to its own thread.
Here you will more likely get an answer to your question than a thread with posted photos of macro bokeh. Someone will be along shortly to answer your question.
05-11-2017, 08:43 AM   #3
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Great bokeh needs interesting light, an interesting background, well focused subject up reasonably close, and a reasonably good lens. Try different aperture settings.

I think the Sigma 70mm macro has beautiful bokeh. If you don't need macro, the FA77 is even better. The Tamron 70-200 has stunning rendering if you can tolerate a giant zoom.

Those are the ones I know.
05-11-2017, 09:00 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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Bokeh is typically a function of the relationship between 3 variables, aperture, Focal length, and distance to subject. To be more precise, these three variables have a large affect on depth of field which in turn will produce the out of focus region, aka bokeh. Its also important to note that these variables do not indicate the "quality" of the bokeh but more how much out of focus is the background. I.E. can you make out shapes and locations, or is it all a fine blur with no discernible features.

To get the fine blur you typically see with macro photography (this is what I am assuming you are referring to), you will typically use a macro lens at or near its shortest focusing distance (close to the subject) which will create a shallow depth of field and result in a very blurred type of bokeh. After setting your distance to subject, the depth of field can be controlled by stopping down the lens to achieve the desired result.

Keep in mind, the shorter the focal length, the closer to the subject you will need to be to obtain a 1:1 reproduction of your subject. This is one reason why many folks prefer the longer length macro lenses as they allow for a 1:1 reproduction ratio at greater distances. This is especially beneficial when photographing critters of any sort as it will help to not scare them off.

As point of note, a high shutter speed is required due to the shallow/thin depth of field when hand held. Any movement can cause the object to fall out of focus very quickly. You would be best to use a tripod to help avoid the motion blur entirely.

One of the other benefits of using the longer focal length lenses also have the added effect of increase background compression. Without getting to technical, the way the light enters the lens allows for the background to be "squished" ,if you will, causing it to appear more out of focus than the same subject framing at shorter focal lengths. To be honest this area is somewhere where I am lacking significant knowledge, so it may be best to ask professor Google for more information.

so in summary,

1. Use a macro lens or one that is "Macro or Close" focusing
2. Get close as close to your subject as you can, the closes to your lenses min focusing distance the better
3. Use your aperture to control depth of field. Note that even at small apertures the depth of field will still be very thin/shallow due to how close you are to your subject.
4. Use a longer focal length to compress the background and maintain a more comfortable distance from the subject
5. Use a high shutter speed (180th if you can)
6. Use a tripod.

If you are shooting where there is limited light, you may also what to consider a flash with a light modifier that will direct the light on the subject. Something like a snoot, or an old (but clean) cup taped to the flash will work fine.

I hope this helps. I am sure plenty of the folks here can add and or correct my advice as well. Have fun!


Last edited by W.j.christy; 05-11-2017 at 09:05 AM.
05-11-2017, 09:57 AM   #5
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Get close to your subject and get the most possible distance between your subject and the background, fully open lens preferably if few and not rounded aperture blades
05-11-2017, 10:50 AM - 1 Like   #6
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For macro's you need to be close to your subject and use a smaller fstop, not wide open at least an f8 or more. I use inbetween f8 and f16. Like this: M lens didn't record f stop but it was f16.
For viewing the larger version, click on the photo.


For other than macro shots, what Nuno said is good.

Last edited by photolady95; 05-11-2017 at 10:57 AM.
05-11-2017, 11:22 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by W.j.christy Quote
Bokeh is typically a function of the relationship between 3 variables, aperture, Focal length, and distance to subject. To be more precise, these three variables have a large affect on depth of field which in turn will produce the out of focus region, aka bokeh. Its also important to note that these variables do not indicate the "quality" of the bokeh but more how much out of focus is the background. I.E. can you make out shapes and locations, or is it all a fine blur with no discernible features.

To get the fine blur you typically see with macro photography (this is what I am assuming you are referring to), you will typically use a macro lens at or near its shortest focusing distance (close to the subject) which will create a shallow depth of field and result in a very blurred type of bokeh. After setting your distance to subject, the depth of field can be controlled by stopping down the lens to achieve the desired result.

Keep in mind, the shorter the focal length, the closer to the subject you will need to be to obtain a 1:1 reproduction of your subject. This is one reason why many folks prefer the longer length macro lenses as they allow for a 1:1 reproduction ratio at greater distances. This is especially beneficial when photographing critters of any sort as it will help to not scare them off.

As point of note, a high shutter speed is required due to the shallow/thin depth of field when hand held. Any movement can cause the object to fall out of focus very quickly. You would be best to use a tripod to help avoid the motion blur entirely.

One of the other benefits of using the longer focal length lenses also have the added effect of increase background compression. Without getting to technical, the way the light enters the lens allows for the background to be "squished" ,if you will, causing it to appear more out of focus than the same subject framing at shorter focal lengths. To be honest this area is somewhere where I am lacking significant knowledge, so it may be best to ask professor Google for more information.

so in summary,

1. Use a macro lens or one that is "Macro or Close" focusing
2. Get close as close to your subject as you can, the closes to your lenses min focusing distance the better
3. Use your aperture to control depth of field. Note that even at small apertures the depth of field will still be very thin/shallow due to how close you are to your subject.
4. Use a longer focal length to compress the background and maintain a more comfortable distance from the subject
5. Use a high shutter speed (180th if you can)
6. Use a tripod.

If you are shooting where there is limited light, you may also what to consider a flash with a light modifier that will direct the light on the subject. Something like a snoot, or an old (but clean) cup taped to the flash will work fine.

I hope this helps. I am sure plenty of the folks here can add and or correct my advice as well. Have fun!

Very well explained already. For ex. if you are shooting with a DA 55-300 then zoom all the way to the max FL (@300mm) and get closer to the subject honoring the MFD of the lens at its max FL and shoot wide open (max aperture @300mm) even if it is possible to get a good shot using a shorter FL. Ofcourse you can use your foot work to adjust the FOV to your needs while still shooting @300mm. That gives you the maximum background blur possible from that lens. This formula works with any lens pretty much. MFD (shoot closest) + wide open Aperture and maintaining a good distance between the subject.and the background.

C__________S_____B (Lesser background blur)
C_____S__________B (More background blur)

where C is the camera, S is the subject and B is the background and _ is the distance in between them.


Last edited by shardulm; 05-11-2017 at 11:31 AM. Reason: typos
05-11-2017, 11:34 AM   #8
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Wow, thanks to all for replies and suggestions, I appreciate (the cooperation in the PentaxForums is fantastic)
I have a Pentax 100mm f2.8 macro wr and K5IIs and asap I will try your suggestions. I like this kind of photos, for me absolutely the best because is art.
Regards.
Toni
05-11-2017, 12:03 PM   #9
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Coincidentally, there was just an article written about this which is on the homepage

Image Composition Guide: Subject Isolation - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com
05-11-2017, 12:45 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nuno Almeida Quote
Get close to your subject and get the most possible distance between your subject and the background, fully open lens preferably if few and not rounded aperture blades

I wonder, does the number of blades impact bokeh apart from the highlighted items in the background or is it mainly the optical elements and their design/configuration?
Probably a stupid question that has been answered somewhere else but reading this thread did make me wonder.
05-11-2017, 05:30 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skodadriver Quote
I wonder, does the number of blades impact bokeh apart from the highlighted items in the background or is it mainly the optical elements and their design/configuration?
Probably a stupid question that has been answered somewhere else but reading this thread did make me wonder.
The highlights, because they're actually a picture of the aperture.

Wide open any lens has a round aperture.
05-11-2017, 07:45 PM - 2 Likes   #12
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Here is an example. Check how the highlights on the right look. A rounded blade at the stop will give me a circular highlight. But here it is more hex..
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05-11-2017, 08:36 PM - 2 Likes   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nuno Almeida Quote
Get close to your subject and get the most possible distance between your subject and the background...
For close ups / macros of flowers, this is pretty much the most important thing to know.

A mash of a background should be pretty much a freebie with small subjects if you can get the background relatively far away compared to your subject. Figure this out, then work on more complicated aspects, like the positioning of the background tones/colours to compliment your subject, optimal apertures for your trade off between higher DoF vs higher background blur, choice of focal lengths and the effect on the background, positioning of out of focus highlights, etc. etc...

Also, feel free to post examples (include settings and other details) for more advice.
05-11-2017, 08:59 PM - 1 Like   #14
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That photo is super-fantastic shardulm. Love it!

QuoteOriginally posted by shardulm Quote
Here is an example. Check how the highlights on the right look. A rounded blade at the stop will give me a circular highlight. But here it is more hex..
05-11-2017, 10:05 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skodadriver Quote
I wonder, does the number of blades impact bokeh apart from the highlighted items in the background or is it mainly the optical elements and their design/configuration?
Probably a stupid question that has been answered somewhere else but reading this thread did make me wonder.
Agree with all the above, and yes, if the aperture isnʻt wide open, both the number of blades and if they are rounded or not will affect bokeh.

In general, odd number of blades are preferred and rounded blades create softer, less harsh bokeh.

One other key element is going to be specular light sources in the background such as from leaves or surface water sparkles, etc.
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