[Astronomersmith]

I'm trying to get some helpful advice on beach exposures that are driving me bonkers. I see cheap cameras taking really nice pics, and I can't seem to get them with my K50. Sunset pics I can get just fine. I've got some I really like. But it is the mid-day that is tough and kicking my rear, so to speak.


Here is an example of what I'm talking about. Nice overall exposure (or at least good enough), but the shadows are REALLY dark. How can I get better? I tried spot metering on the shade under the umbrella, but it didn't work very well. I am open for all suggestions.


Scott

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[pschlute]

You are meeting the dynamic range problem head on. If you expose for the shadows your highlights will be blown. If you get the highlights right the shadows are too dark. The digital sensor has limitations with high contrast scenes, unlike the human eye. Try shooting in raw and use an editing tool which allows you to expand the dynamic range.

I have had a quick tweak which brightens the whole image (origininal is too dark IMO, and expands the range to brighten the shadows.

Dont forget that extreme lighting will fool your cameras light meter. I assume this was a very bright day with harsh sun reflected off the sand. Your meter says "whoa, a lot of light here we need to stop down/increase shutter speed a lot". In situations like this you need to step in and say "not so fast Mr Light Meter, I think I need to dial in a stop or two of + exposure compensation"

[dms]

Also in bright sunlight using a camera meter is not a good method. I.e., a reflected light meter is problematic under this condition. Assuming color:
-- Better is sunny 16 rule (1/iso sec at f/16). E.g., at iso 100: 1/100s at f/16, 1/200 s at f/11, 1/400s at f/8, etc.
-- Or get an incident ("studio") light meter
And then bias the value depending on what is most important. E.g., maybe a "sunny f/11 rule". If you review the results later (cannot do very well in sunlight on the camera) you can learn what adjustments to make.
But using the camera (AV, TV, etc.) is likely never to be very reliable, even if you make adjustments to (bias) the iso (put in + or - ev value).

About your saying cheap cameras doing fine--a cheap camera may use a matrix metering algorithm that is tweaked for the beach, and the like. Speculating [I don't use matrix metering in those situations] a more pro camera may not do this, and thus seem (will be) worse in those situations. Matrix metering is (I believe) adjusted by imprecise methods to (hopefully) do better than center weighted (or spot) metering. No matter what, it is using reflected light (!), and thus must be adjusted depending on the particular reflectance of the surfaces, the fraction of light-to-dark, etc. Sunny 16 rule, and incident meters simply assume a middle gray should look like a middle gray.

[pschlute]

Yes a classic case for using exposure bracketing...all on the +ve side...eg +0.5/+1/+1.5...then you can decide which looks best before you do more editing.

[Murfy]

My first thought is I am assuming the point and shoot cameras apply some type of dynamic range setting and maybe that setting needs to be changed on the K50?

Otherwise, It is a big range, so you are going to have to make a compromise. What I do is spot meter the shadows, spot meter the sky, take a few shots in between those readings. Decide which is best and tweak in lightroom. It would be the same in the darkroom, sometimes you need to dodge and burn to fix highlights or shadows. I prefer to shot that way, but you can do bracketing and set up the stops and see which you prefer too.

Beach scenes and snowy days are always a problem!

[ranmar850]

Does the K-50 have the HDR in-camera? That can be useful in this situation. Mid-day anywhere is your worst time, light is flat and harsh.. Makes you realise just how good the human eye is.You also appear to have some cloud about, which will give you glary light, as well as flat. If you want a simple jpeg, you can emulate those cheap cameras by using your Custom Image facility--there will be one in there for Beach or Snow, along with the Sunset, candle light, etc. it should make all the necessary compensations, including saturating up a bit.
If you were doing that as a raw image, and are just after "pop" ( I detest that term),In Lightroom, adjust Shadows, increase Clarity and probably Contrast, lower your Highlights, look at individual colour Saturation, or maybe Presence and overall Saturation. And Dehaze, right down the bottom of the adjustment table--this can be killer if used sparingly.

[GUB]

In this image the brightest points are in the sky. Set your exposure so they are bright but not clipped. Set your Iso as low as possible to get maximum dynamic range. And in PP draw the shadows up with a curves tool keeping an eye on the bright end so that it doesn't overexpose. Of course this is best done in Raw but you can achieve a lot with a correctly exposed jpg.

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[shiner]

...And Dehaze, right down the bottom of the adjustment table--this can be killer if used sparingly.

Somehow, I have neglected this feature in Lightroom for years. I guess it disappears down there at the bottom, lol. Just happens that I have some recent disappointing images that Dehaze just now magically transformed into something I can work with!! Thanks

[BigDave]

Keep in mind that with digital cameras it is always better to over expose a bit. If you shoot raw, then the detail in the highlights can be recovered. The first image is as shot.The color tones are nice, but the sky is washed out. The second image is with a highlight recovery tool. I would still have to work on the rest of the image, but this shows why it is better to over expose a bit.

[clackers]

I tried spot metering on the shade under the umbrella, but it didn't work very well.

You got an example?

That should have worked well too, exposing correctly for the person and letting the background blowout ... it's a classic fashion look.

[GUB]

Keep in mind that with digital cameras it is always better to over expose a bit. If you shoot raw, then the detail in the highlights can be recovered. The first image is as shot.The color tones are nice, but the sky is washed out. The second image is with a highlight recovery tool. I would still have to work on the rest of the image, but this shows why it is better to over expose a bit.

You and I have got to disagree on this Big Dave!!
But we probably both agree the OP's shot is a stop or so underexposed.

[Canada_Rockies]

You and I have got to disagree on this Big Dave!!
But we probably both agree the OP's shot is a stop or so underexposed.

I also disagree with Big Dave. When I bought my K10D in Late 2007, my personal testing told me that digital is similar to slide film: save the highlights. Overexposure is death to the image. Slight underexposure (and sometimes way under) can be recovered from a RAW image. As with slide film, if the highlights are all white, nothing can be recovered.

[GUB]

I also disagree with Big Dave. When I bought my K10D in Late 2007, my personal testing told me that digital is similar to slide film: save the highlights. Overexposure is death to the image. Slight underexposure (and sometimes way under) can be recovered from a RAW image. As with slide film, if the highlights are all white, nothing can be recovered.

Yeah this is where I am coming from - Iso invariance - PentaxForums.com
Big Dave, the exif of your example states you were at Iso 200. If you had dropped that back to 100 and left the other settings alone you could have drawn up the shadows without any increase in noise over using a higher Iso , and also gained a stop of dynamic range. And maintained better control of your highlights.

[ranmar850]

I'd have to add my bit on under-vs-over exposure. Particularly with the better, late sensors, like on my K-70, you can recover very deep shadows without a lot ( or any) noise, but blown-out can be impossible. This may be taking the argument to extremes, of course. The K-70 is noticeably better than my previous K-x in this respect, I shoot a lot of landscapes and early/late light with deep shadows, I'm always more particular about exposing for the sky in the frame.

[Astronomersmith]

You are meeting the dynamic range problem head on. If you expose for the shadows your highlights will be blown. If you get the highlights right the shadows are too dark. The digital sensor has limitations with high contrast scenes, unlike the human eye. Try shooting in raw and use an editing tool which allows you to expand the dynamic range.



====================================
I have had a quick tweak which brightens the whole image (origininal is too dark IMO, and expands the range to brighten the shadows.

Dont forget that extreme lighting will fool your cameras light meter. I assume this was a very bright day with harsh sun reflected off the sand. Your meter says "whoa, a lot of light here we need to stop down/increase shutter speed a lot". In situations like this you need to step in and say "not so fast Mr Light Meter, I think I need to dial in a stop or two of + exposure compensation"

Thanks for the response! And yes, you are correct, the original was too dark, but the shadows were my worst issue. You adjustment did help dramatically! I'll take a look into the exposure comp suggestion too. Thanks!


Oh, and by the way, your avatar pic...is that an Afgan? I had two of them in my younger days. Loved'em!!


Scott

---------- Post added 05-31-17 at 01:04 PM ----------

You got an example?

That should have worked well too, exposing correctly for the person and letting the background blowout ... it's a classic fashion look.

No...no example. It was deleted.


Scott

---------- Post added 05-31-17 at 01:06 PM ----------

Does the K-50 have the HDR in-camera? That can be useful in this situation. Mid-day anywhere is your worst time, light is flat and harsh.. Makes you realise just how good the human eye is.You also appear to have some cloud about, which will give you glary light, as well as flat. If you want a simple jpeg, you can emulate those cheap cameras by using your Custom Image facility--there will be one in there for Beach or Snow, along with the Sunset, candle light, etc. it should make all the necessary compensations, including saturating up a bit.
If you were doing that as a raw image, and are just after "pop" ( I detest that term),In Lightroom, adjust Shadows, increase Clarity and probably Contrast, lower your Highlights, look at individual colour Saturation, or maybe Presence and overall Saturation. And Dehaze, right down the bottom of the adjustment table--this can be killer if used sparingly.

Yes, it does, unless I'm sadly mistaken. I've not really used that option though. I'll definitely be experimenting and getting a good bit more serious about things on my next trip to the beach! You and all the rest of the group here have definitely given me some food for thought! Thanks!


Scott