Macro Macro for beginners ( A guide to help people not give up ) Part 2

old4570 · 09-03-2017, 06:37 PM - **3 Likes**

I am starting a new thread for each part so as not to confuse things ..
In part one I explain why light is important ( flash ) ..
Now lets talk camera settings :

You want the lowest ISO setting , the highest shutter speed and the Highest Fstop ( smallest aperture ) .
Why ?

Because that way you have some where to go .. ( control ) .. If you shoot in natural light then these things become critical . ( They really do ) ..
Aperture will dictate how much light gets to the sensor as well as DOF ( Depth Of Field ) .
So if you are attempting true macro with natural light then you really need to know what you are doing .. For beginners ( Why I am posting ) a flash is almost like cheating , a little like being given the answers before being asked the question .

So I will only talk flash assist here because it will get you from whoa to go so much faster . I will assume that you have a flash and it directs light at the subject rather than over the subject or in front of the subject .
You will require a test subject to set up your camera .
I like to start Maxed out , so in bright sunlight I will start with ISO 100 , F32 , 1/180 ( fastest shutter speed with flash for Pentax ) and take some test shots .
So how did the pictures turn out , if they are a little on the dark side this is great .. If on the other hand they are bright ( burned ) then you may want to add a diffuse'r to cut back the light . ( or you may have a adjustable flash )

Keep adjusting till the image is just a little on the dark side .. ( This is where I like to be ) You can either correct in post production , or kick up the ISO , or lower the Fstop or lower the shutter speed .
You need the image to be bright enough to maintain a nice detailed subject but not so bright that the flash burns the image . ( Too much light / flare )

At this time I am not taking into consideration the lens or the working distance .. That is for the reader to determine and it will also be part 3 ( Lens and working distance )
So you have your camera lens with a flash .. Take some test shots , find the settings that work for you ..

A begginers guide to macro photography rev2.1.pdf - Google Drive
Macro Guide.pdf - Google Drive

Links to the two guides I wrote some time ago ..
So in part 3 we will talk about the lens and working distance ..

**TER-OR** · 09-03-2017, 07:23 PM

I've been using Manual mode with a flash in manual mode at 1/4 power. ISO 200, f16, 1/160 sec

I could probably go tighter on the aperture, but f16 seems to be working well for me.

Thagomizer · 09-03-2017, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by old4570

I

You want the lowest ISO setting , the highest shutter speed and the Highest Fstop ( smallest aperture ) .
Why ?

Because that way you have some where to go .. ( control ) ..

What a great approach and a great way to explain it! I'll have to try this myself. I kinda do something slightly like this, but not in a terribly systematic way. This clarifies things wonderfully. Thank you!

old4570 · 09-03-2017, 09:35 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TER-OR

I've been using Manual mode with a flash in manual mode at 1/4 power. ISO 200, f16, 1/160 sec

I could probably go tighter on the aperture, but f16 seems to be working well for me.

Its all about what works ..
Aperture is so (?) , depends on what lens - working distance and the end result you want .
And for some strange reason there seems to be resistance to working in the higher F stop range (?) , it has always surprised me when people leave comments like ( I didn't know you could use F32 ) .. ??????

What would they think about using F64 ?

Anyhow , that might be considered more advanced stuff .. ( Maybe )
4th day of spring here , and the weather is wild and wolly .

Camera settings : A lot of people start from what I would ( my perspective ) consider the wrong end .. Running High ISO - low Fstop and too slow a shutter ..
Anyone having issue taking nice clean sharp images (?) dont forget to include - ISO - Fstop and shutter speed information with your picture .

Seriously , we are here to help , not harsh your buzz !

About the picture I posted :
Lens is a Vivitar 55mm 1:1 Macro lens , F2.8 to F16 ( F16 is as small as the aperture goes )
Shutter speed is as high as it can be to use a flash , and the ISO is about right for the conditions ..
If there was more light I would drop the ISO to 100 and If there was less light I would possibly increase ISO to 400 or drop my shutter speed .. Just depends on the prevailing conditions ( like wind ) .. If there is movement ( beside your own ) to contend with , lowering the shutter speed could be a bad idea .

---------- Post added 09-04-17 at 02:54 PM ----------

Originally posted by Thagomizer

What a great approach and a great way to explain it! I'll have to try this myself. I kinda do something slightly like this, but not in a terribly systematic way. This clarifies things wonderfully. Thank you!

I pre set my camera for the prevailing conditions ( light ) .
This way only minor changes are needed to maintain settings as close to what I want .
Macro is so variable , there is no one answer for everyone .. So unfortunately I try to be as general as possible , but hopefully in a way that gives direction or clarity for anyone that may be reading this ..

Last edited by old4570; 09-03-2017 at 09:43 PM.

LensBeginner · 09-04-2017, 12:45 AM

Shutter speed is not that important if you're using flash... not a f/32 anyway since the contribution from natural light is going to be pretty negligible in the, I don't know... 1/30s to 1/180s range. So yes, max sync speed, but a little dragging will not make much difference.

I know that DoF is very important, but I usually start to see some significant softening at f/32 (I use a 2x macro TC, so that means selecting f/16 on the lens)... I personally tend to use f/16 to f/22 and change my angle relative to the subject so it falls more flat on the focus plane.

old4570 · 09-04-2017, 04:09 AM

wed7 · 09-04-2017, 04:48 AM

Thank you for sharing, keep 'em coming!

old4570 · 09-04-2017, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by wed7

Thank you for sharing, keep 'em coming!

Thank you ..
I have posted a lot of photos over the years ..
The main thing is not to be afraid of just doing . Find what works for you ( who ever you may be ) .. Always remember , there is no one way - just the way you want to do it .
And never forget if its not working ! Then maybe its not the right way . Be flexible , try things , discard them if necessary . Its amazing what works or can be made to work .

Some really old gear !

biz-engineer · 09-04-2017, 08:47 AM

The main problem with macro is magnification + DoF with full frame which would require focus step to get the IQ that FF is supposed to bring.
- There is no software to support focus stepping for Pentax
- There is no auto extension tube from Pentax
- The DFA100 macro doesn't have manual aperture ring.
So, I sold my DFA100 macro. If I ever do macro, it's going to be with an old 200mm lens having an aperture control ring and a cheapo extension tube.
Other option is, a high pixel density smaller sensor camera would be easier than K1 for macros.

LensBeginner · 09-04-2017, 01:30 PM - **1 Like**

...OFC you won't see softening at web size... -_-

old4570 · 09-04-2017, 07:11 PM - **1 Like**

Hmmm , I am no expert so I don't suffer any technical restrictions ..
There is a Auto extension tube for Pentax ( Its not very good )
DFA 100 , Aperture , just set it in the camera .. ( ?? )
My images have been downsized to 1280 and quality dropped to around 90% for smaller file size .

There is a picture there taken with an istD , one simple trick is not to crop = Don't crop !
Anyone reading this , ??? equipment .

09-03-2017, 06:37 PM - 3 Likes	#1
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551	Macro for beginners ( A guide to help people not give up ) Part 2 I am starting a new thread for each part so as not to confuse things .. In part one I explain why light is important ( flash ) .. Now lets talk camera settings : You want the lowest ISO setting , the highest shutter speed and the Highest Fstop ( smallest aperture ) . Why ? Because that way you have some where to go .. ( control ) .. If you shoot in natural light then these things become critical . ( They really do ) .. Aperture will dictate how much light gets to the sensor as well as DOF ( Depth Of Field ) . So if you are attempting true macro with natural light then you really need to know what you are doing .. For beginners ( Why I am posting ) a flash is almost like cheating , a little like being given the answers before being asked the question . So I will only talk flash assist here because it will get you from whoa to go so much faster . I will assume that you have a flash and it directs light at the subject rather than over the subject or in front of the subject . You will require a test subject to set up your camera . I like to start Maxed out , so in bright sunlight I will start with ISO 100 , F32 , 1/180 ( fastest shutter speed with flash for Pentax ) and take some test shots . So how did the pictures turn out , if they are a little on the dark side this is great .. If on the other hand they are bright ( burned ) then you may want to add a diffuse'r to cut back the light . ( or you may have a adjustable flash ) Keep adjusting till the image is just a little on the dark side .. ( This is where I like to be ) You can either correct in post production , or kick up the ISO , or lower the Fstop or lower the shutter speed . You need the image to be bright enough to maintain a nice detailed subject but not so bright that the flash burns the image . ( Too much light / flare ) At this time I am not taking into consideration the lens or the working distance .. That is for the reader to determine and it will also be part 3 ( Lens and working distance ) So you have your camera lens with a flash .. Take some test shots , find the settings that work for you .. A begginers guide to macro photography rev2.1.pdf - Google Drive Macro Guide.pdf - Google Drive Links to the two guides I wrote some time ago .. So in part 3 we will talk about the lens and working distance ..

09-03-2017, 09:35 PM - 1 Like	#4
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551 Original Poster	Yep Originally posted by TER-OR I've been using Manual mode with a flash in manual mode at 1/4 power. ISO 200, f16, 1/160 sec I could probably go tighter on the aperture, but f16 seems to be working well for me. Its all about what works .. Aperture is so (?) , depends on what lens - working distance and the end result you want . And for some strange reason there seems to be resistance to working in the higher F stop range (?) , it has always surprised me when people leave comments like ( I didn't know you could use F32 ) .. ?????? What would they think about using F64 ? Anyhow , that might be considered more advanced stuff .. ( Maybe ) 4th day of spring here , and the weather is wild and wolly . Camera settings : A lot of people start from what I would ( my perspective ) consider the wrong end .. Running High ISO - low Fstop and too slow a shutter .. Anyone having issue taking nice clean sharp images (?) dont forget to include - ISO - Fstop and shutter speed information with your picture . Seriously , we are here to help , not harsh your buzz ! About the picture I posted : Lens is a Vivitar 55mm 1:1 Macro lens , F2.8 to F16 ( F16 is as small as the aperture goes ) Shutter speed is as high as it can be to use a flash , and the ISO is about right for the conditions .. If there was more light I would drop the ISO to 100 and If there was less light I would possibly increase ISO to 400 or drop my shutter speed .. Just depends on the prevailing conditions ( like wind ) .. If there is movement ( beside your own ) to contend with , lowering the shutter speed could be a bad idea . ---------- Post added 09-04-17 at 02:54 PM ---------- Originally posted by Thagomizer What a great approach and a great way to explain it! I'll have to try this myself. I kinda do something slightly like this, but not in a terribly systematic way. This clarifies things wonderfully. Thank you! I pre set my camera for the prevailing conditions ( light ) . This way only minor changes are needed to maintain settings as close to what I want . Macro is so variable , there is no one answer for everyone .. So unfortunately I try to be as general as possible , but hopefully in a way that gives direction or clarity for anyone that may be reading this .. Last edited by old4570; 09-03-2017 at 09:43 PM.

09-04-2017, 06:55 AM	#8
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551 Original Poster	Thanks Originally posted by wed7 Thank you for sharing, keep 'em coming! Thank you .. I have posted a lot of photos over the years .. The main thing is not to be afraid of just doing . Find what works for you ( who ever you may be ) .. Always remember , there is no one way - just the way you want to do it . And never forget if its not working ! Then maybe its not the right way . Be flexible , try things , discard them if necessary . Its amazing what works or can be made to work . Some really old gear !

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09-03-2017, 07:23 PM	#2
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	I've been using Manual mode with a flash in manual mode at 1/4 power. ISO 200, f16, 1/160 sec I could probably go tighter on the aperture, but f16 seems to be working well for me.

09-03-2017, 09:33 PM	#3
Thagomizer Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: London Ontario Posts: 2,068	Originally posted by old4570 I You want the lowest ISO setting , the highest shutter speed and the Highest Fstop ( smallest aperture ) . Why ? Because that way you have some where to go .. ( control ) .. What a great approach and a great way to explain it! I'll have to try this myself. I kinda do something slightly like this, but not in a terribly systematic way. This clarifies things wonderfully. Thank you!

09-04-2017, 12:45 AM	#5
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Shutter speed is not that important if you're using flash... not a f/32 anyway since the contribution from natural light is going to be pretty negligible in the, I don't know... 1/30s to 1/180s range. So yes, max sync speed, but a little dragging will not make much difference. I know that DoF is very important, but I usually start to see some significant softening at f/32 (I use a 2x macro TC, so that means selecting f/16 on the lens)... I personally tend to use f/16 to f/22 and change my angle relative to the subject so it falls more flat on the focus plane.

09-04-2017, 04:09 AM	#6
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551 Original Poster

09-04-2017, 04:48 AM	#7
wed7 Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 1,421	Thank you for sharing, keep 'em coming!

09-04-2017, 08:47 AM	#9
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	The main problem with macro is magnification + DoF with full frame which would require focus step to get the IQ that FF is supposed to bring. - There is no software to support focus stepping for Pentax - There is no auto extension tube from Pentax - The DFA100 macro doesn't have manual aperture ring. So, I sold my DFA100 macro. If I ever do macro, it's going to be with an old 200mm lens having an aperture control ring and a cheapo extension tube. Other option is, a high pixel density smaller sensor camera would be easier than K1 for macros.

09-04-2017, 01:30 PM - 1 Like	#10
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	...OFC you won't see softening at web size... -_-

09-04-2017, 07:11 PM - 1 Like	#11
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551 Original Poster	Hmmm , I am no expert so I don't suffer any technical restrictions .. There is a Auto extension tube for Pentax ( Its not very good ) DFA 100 , Aperture , just set it in the camera .. ( ?? ) My images have been downsized to 1280 and quality dropped to around 90% for smaller file size . There is a picture there taken with an istD , one simple trick is not to crop = Don't crop ! Anyone reading this , ??? equipment .