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09-04-2017, 10:15 PM   #1
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Image Stabilization, how many people use it predominantly most of the time?

Here we are yet again, with another silly Bruce question

I came across a post in another thread (regarding User Modes that people have configured/set up) and I thought one comment was interesting, in that the member stated he used just two User modes, one for having IS on and the other for having off.
It got me thinking... 'off'?! isn't that heresy!? Surely it's now just a necessary feature unless shooting from a tripod, no?

And so I went reading a little more about IS (or SR, Shake Reduction as it's known elsewhere), and came across a few articles that were stating some things that I wasn't really aware of.

I think we have all heard the general rule about focal lengths and shutter speeds, that you shouldn't really shoot lower than the focal length, for example 1/50th of a second for 50mm focal lengths, 1/100th of a second for 100mm focal and 1/300th for 300mm etc, but I always took this rule to meaning with IS/SR on. An article I found was suggesting that these generic rules were actually for situations where IS/SR was turned off, and that when toggling IS/SR on you can safely shoot a fair bit lower than that. I guess it all depends on the skill, situation, body position etc of the shooter, but the whole article really got me wondering about IS/SR and if I should really have it on, have I contributed to the degradation of picture quality when shooting in those instances where it was simply not necessary at all (such as HSS on a bright day, shooting wide open and therefore commanding upwards of 1/2000th of a second etc).

Furthermore, I was interested to hear that when tripoding a camera, lift that mirror up can also increase quality, yet again another benefit of the K-1 I am not exploiting properly. IS/SR off is a given when tripoding for sure, but how many of us lift the mirror up for the shot? Are there any users here that shoot handheld with the mirror up?

I guess I'm just intrigued as to how many shooters here on Pentax Forums shoot with IS on or off? Being from the land of Oz I am blessed with bright sunshine days, perhaps my norm really should be to have IS off, especially when I shoot wide open (which I like). I guess part of becoming an accomplished photographer is always gaining experience and knowledge to know that when you walk into a certain environment you can assess quickly the amount of light available and make the right decisions to your shots.

This isn't so much a question post but rather just a starter for a discussion, please feel free to throw your 2 cents in with your opinions of IS/SR and Mirror Up, especially seeing as the Pentax world has this feature based 'in camera' rather than onboard lens.

Cheers,

Bruce


Last edited by BruceBanner; 09-04-2017 at 10:21 PM.
09-04-2017, 10:19 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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Almost always on for me, Bruce. Only off for tripod shots.
09-04-2017, 10:35 PM   #3
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I switch is on when I want to use it, otherwise leave it off. Some shots are blurred because I forget to switch SR on. Would be nice to have the camera switch SR on in auto mode when shutter speed is too slow vs FL.
09-04-2017, 10:37 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Surely it's now just a necessary feature unless shooting from a tripod, no?
If your shutter speed is fast enough it will make no difference to use SR or not when handheld. For tripod use it should be off. It should also be off if you are panning , either handheld or say with a monopod.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
An article I found was suggesting that these generic rules were actually for situations where IS/SR was turned off,
The rule of using the inverse of the FL for a shutter speed predates SR and digital cameras both. By using SR you should be able to gain 3-5 stops of stabilisation.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
when tripoding a camera, lift that mirror up can also increase quality
When using a tripod there are a number of factors that can affect your picture. The longer the lens the more likely you can get vibration caused by the mirror or the first shutter curtain. The shutter speed can affect the shot depending on camera. My K1 with a long lens exhibits shutter shock in the range 1/60-1/200. Faster shutter speeds and the vibration has not had a chance to affect the exposure. Slower shutter speeds and the vibration induced blur is only a small timeframe of the exposure. The answer if you need to use these speeds with a long lens is to use Mirror up shooting or much better still the Electronic Shutter option in LV if your camera has it. This removes shutter shock completely. Using MU on its own in those shutter ranges does not help as the blur is shutter shock induced.

When handholding I just let the SR do its thing. Never bother with MU or ES, although it would make the capture quieter.

09-04-2017, 10:38 PM   #5
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Only If I forget to turn it back on, which is very often!
I shoot at night often, therefore I leave the remote control feature on and use tripod. W
hen I do day time shooting, I often forget to turn the remote feature off to let the SR to come back on.

Last edited by pakinjapan; 09-04-2017 at 11:56 PM.
09-04-2017, 11:23 PM   #6
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On except when on a tripod (almost never), or using a lens without it - 17 tilt/shift, cheap 50, or Tokina 10-17 (Canon is ILIS).
09-04-2017, 11:58 PM   #7
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Basically on all the time for me. I don't turn it off manually but effectively it is automatically turned off when on when working on a tripod (on tripod I use self timer or remote modes which automatically turn it off).
The only time I have ever turned it off is when using a wired shutter release which doesn't automatically turn off SR.
Personally I have never seen any adverse effect leaving it on and it has certainly saved shots many times.

09-05-2017, 12:26 AM   #8
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I never turn off the SR. If I'am shhoting from a tripod the 2s timer or 3s remote timer or mirorr lock up disables it temporarly so I don't have to think about it. Newer bodys are detecting the panning so again I can leave it on. I think there is no reason to turn off.
09-05-2017, 12:44 AM - 1 Like   #9
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Same as kiwi_jono and 08amczb - I have never turned it off.

Just a reminder for those without a K-1 (full-frame), the guideline shutter speed for hand-held without SR should include the crop factor, e.g. for APS-C at 100mm, speed should be at least 1/150s (100 x 1.5).
09-05-2017, 01:32 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
If your shutter speed is fast enough it will make no difference to use SR or not when handheld. For tripod use it should be off. It should also be off if you are panning , either handheld or say with a monopod.



The rule of using the inverse of the FL for a shutter speed predates SR and digital cameras both. By using SR you should be able to gain 3-5 stops of stabilisation.



When using a tripod there are a number of factors that can affect your picture. The longer the lens the more likely you can get vibration caused by the mirror or the first shutter curtain. The shutter speed can affect the shot depending on camera. My K1 with a long lens exhibits shutter shock in the range 1/60-1/200. Faster shutter speeds and the vibration has not had a chance to affect the exposure. Slower shutter speeds and the vibration induced blur is only a small timeframe of the exposure. The answer if you need to use these speeds with a long lens is to use Mirror up shooting or much better still the Electronic Shutter option in LV if your camera has it. This removes shutter shock completely. Using MU on its own in those shutter ranges does not help as the blur is shutter shock induced.

When handholding I just let the SR do its thing. Never bother with MU or ES, although it would make the capture quieter.
- I didn't know about the IS off and panning thing, till reading this article (I mentioned previously) and what you say here as well, good to know.

- You say if the shutter speed is fast enough then the fact IS is on makes no difference to the picture quality, so then is there a hypothetical range of shutter speed whereby having it off if not required can increase image quality vs having it on and actually going against the user somewhat? What I'm getting at is, if say you have a 50mm FL attached, and you know from experience that you can shoot 1/40th or 1/50th fine without needing IS on, then those shots could somewhat be sharper? But moving up to say 1/200th with the same FL and having IS on is no different to picture quality if off? Because from the article i read it suggested that IS can by its very nature induce image degradation, and where possible shoot with IS off and MU for sharpest images, but its not quite clear if they were meaning purely on tripod (dur..).

- When you say 3-5 stops, can we translate that to shutter speed? For example, if you are set on having the aperture at a fairly wide fixed 2.8, but shooting at 1/50th (IS off) gives you an ISO of 1600 for the shot, then turning IS on and then bringing shutter down to 1/20th now gives an ISO of 200 (i'm guessing and making these figures up by the way), is there a kinda IS rule? I just practiced in the garden earlier whilst people were adding to this thread and felt I could hold off from using IS safely with a 50mm focal length till I hit around 1/20th or 1/30th were some shots were perhaps a tad blurry. I wondered with this 'generic rule' regarding focal lengths and shutter speeds, is there actually one for having IS on?

- Didn't know about ES, thanks once again, and yes it's quiet indeed! It may come in very handy for some jobs I do! I may make a 'Quiet Mode' for one of my User modes that takes advantage of this feature, and I guess gives me practicing for shooting via LV which I rarely do unless tripoding.

Thanks once again, informative as always!

QuoteOriginally posted by kiwi_jono Quote
Basically on all the time for me. I don't turn it off manually but effectively it is automatically turned off when on when working on a tripod (on tripod I use self timer or remote modes which automatically turn it off).
The only time I have ever turned it off is when using a wired shutter release which doesn't automatically turn off SR.
Personally I have never seen any adverse effect leaving it on and it has certainly saved shots many times.
QuoteOriginally posted by 08amczb Quote
I never turn off the SR. If I'am shhoting from a tripod the 2s timer or 3s remote timer or mirorr lock up disables it temporarly so I don't have to think about it. Newer bodys are detecting the panning so again I can leave it on. I think there is no reason to turn off.
I don't think the K-1 can detect panning. Perhaps in future cameras may come with higher customization or intelligence, such as 'Auto IS', turning it on only as and when required (such as when dropping to a recommended or specified shutter speeds deemed low for that focal length attached).

The article I read was hinting at that reduced sharpness can be a side effect of using IS, better quality can be had from turning it off, but it wasn't entirely clear if it was speaking purely from tripod and MU moments.
Certainly one benefit it did emphasize was that by turning IS off you gain substantial improved battery life, especially on larger frames sensors.
Curious... i wonder if anyone has tested this and compared how many more shots you can gain from having IS off compared to on...
09-05-2017, 01:50 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I don't think the K-1 can detect panning
It can, see the second paragraph: Features2 | PENTAX K-1 | RICOH IMAGING
09-05-2017, 02:06 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by 08amczb Quote
It can, see the second paragraph: Features2 | PENTAX K-1 | RICOH IMAGING
I took that to meaning IS is still on, it's just 'better' than most IS/SR technology, certainly testing here in LV mode, IS on, pan camera, stays on. Unless I'm missing something, i thought the idea would it would detect the pan and toggle off, doesn't appear to do that for me...
09-05-2017, 02:14 AM - 1 Like   #13
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Hm... I mostly use Sigma lenses with OS built into the lens.
So i switch it off...
I only use Pentax SR on lenses 85mm to 135-150mm. Maybe a bit more often by accident...
But when I mount a Sigma lens with OS, i switch it off.
On most Sigma OS lenses you have two options...
1- normal stabilization
2- panning stabilization...

I find it to be far superior compared to body-internal shake reduction...

And i wanted to add that i recently read an interesting article, on how a "body internal" SR mechanism(that moves the sensor) can make autofocusing much more difficult than it should be.
(Though i never tried if there is a difference in focusing -especially in AF.C- when SR is turned off)
09-05-2017, 02:37 AM - 1 Like   #14
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At panning the SR doesn't turns off. It's just limited to the other directions. It will not move the sensor parallel to the movement. In the perpendicular directions it works. Try some panning shots with and without SR.
09-05-2017, 02:42 AM   #15
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On the K-1, I try to remember to turn SR off when the shutter speed is adequate.

The issue is shutter shock with certain lenses (the DFA15-30 and DFA24-70 are my main culprits) - resulting in nothing being critically sharp despite stopping down and careful focus.

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 09-05-2017 at 03:09 AM. Reason: typo
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