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09-07-2017, 09:10 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I wonder about the whole "in the lens shake reduction is better than on the sensor shake reduction." Olympus does seem to be in front of Pentax in this respect, in particular doing a combination of in lens and on sensor shake reduction to give really good results. Most of what I have seen about Olympus's system is Olympus propaganda so I do take it with a grain of salt, but still, hand holding for even a second or two seems possible where I don't think it would be with most other systems -- even at wide angles.
The guy I quoted above used to be a Nikon ambasador and now he is using Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II. He posted a few images taken at 2 and 4 seconds shutter speed hand holding the camera by combining the image stabilisation from camera with the one from the lens. It's impressive the image stabilisation from Olympus.

I will ask him if he use with his Oly the image stabilisation for wildlife and if he does, what are his motives.


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 09-07-2017 at 09:29 AM.
09-07-2017, 09:26 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
The guy I quoted above used to be a Nikon ambasador and now he is using Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II. He posted a few images taken at 2 and 4 seconds shutter speed hand holding the camera by combining the image stabilisation from camera with the one from the sensor. It's impressive the image stabilisation from Olympus.

I will ask him if he use with his Oly the image stabilisation for wildlife and if he does, what are his motives.
Hand held braced on something , or free standing hand held?

Interesting.. I wonder what the maximum stabilization from Pentax SR would be? Does it shut down over a period of time? Anyone know?

What's needed here is a set of scientific parameters. How many degrees of movement can the camera compensate for and for how long. Then it would all be crystal clear? When available science isn't used to describe technical processes, I'm always sceptical. How do we know it didn't happen once and never again?

Last edited by normhead; 09-07-2017 at 09:51 AM.
09-07-2017, 10:06 AM   #78
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aha.
09-07-2017, 10:10 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Hand held braced on something , or free standing hand held?
Here is his review of Oly E-M1 Mark II and he mentioned also about image stabilisation and he posted 2 or 3 images at 2-4 seconds shutter speed. I'm not a big fan of his landscape images (or landscapes in general), but he is very good at wildlife and portraits.

I hope the following link it's active because I'm commenting from my phone. Olympus OM D E-M 1 Mk II review - or how can you win, when everyone else thinks that you have lost…

09-07-2017, 01:06 PM - 1 Like   #80
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I have tested my SR by plugging the video from my camera to the big screen TV, with a 135mm lens move it around the room with the SR on and off. You can really see the difference. Try it sometime.
09-07-2017, 01:37 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
In Pentax manual doesn't say anything about the best configuration for af-c in order to get the best out of it. That's why I'm interested in the Pentaxian's conclusion after they test what this guy said at point 2. His findings may apply only to Nikon/Canon (he was a Canon shooter before Nikon), but it takes half an hour to test it. I will do it also, but maybe in 2 weeks I get the chance to shoot with a K-3 II. As I remember from when I was shooting with K-3 II, I think that stabilisation automatically tuns off when the camera is on a tripod (point 3 in the recomandations from above).

He also said in the same article that "And the last problem I found, is that stabilization reduces autofocus speed. The device waits after the stabilization system to adjust the focus correctly.".
This is what intrigues me the most. Yesterday I turned IS off and used AF.C to try and capture some shots of my daughter on the trampoline. Now it could be my imagination but it really felt like I was getting way more in focus shots with IS off compared to on. I am however a bit of an ex-audiophile, and that world is full of placebos! It's easy to trick your mind and ears and I imagine this is also going to come into play with going with how things 'feel' when toggling IS on/off.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I look forward to your results. It's tough job but someone has to do it.

---------- Post added 09-07-17 at 08:18 AM ----------



I recently shot a 23 shot burst with my K-3 that had every frame in clear focus, of my dog running straight at me. The last 3 frames were out of focus as the dog completely filled the frame, but the first 20 were all sharp. I would find such a limitation distressing. My K-3 shoots a max of 8 frames per second which would suggest better performance with the Pentax system.
AF.C with a target coming towards you at high speed?! I try and do that on a bright day with my kids (whom I am imagining are slower than your bowow)and my K-1 cannot cope with that! It's one of the tests I aim to put them through at a later date, get them to do some running at me in the park with the same parameters but toggling IS on/off to see if there is a trend in more shots being in focus than not.
09-07-2017, 04:34 PM - 2 Likes   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
AF.C with a target coming towards you at high speed?! I try and do that on a bright day with my kids (whom I am imagining are slower than your bowow)and my K-1 cannot cope with that! It's one of the tests I aim to put them through at a later date, get them to do some running at me in the park with the same parameters but toggling IS on/off to see if there is a trend in more shots being in focus than not.
The z-axis is the most challenging for any camera, for sure, and I'm an amateur casually pointing my handheld K-1 with a Tamron 70-200 (not some expensive sports lens) at a runner, but here is an entire sequence, approaching me and then running past.

The ninth shot was cropped and processed as the 'keeper' for my social media. (Image stablilization was probably on, BTW!)











































09-07-2017, 05:41 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
This is what intrigues me the most. Yesterday I turned IS off and used AF.C to try and capture some shots of my daughter on the trampoline. Now it could be my imagination but it really felt like I was getting way more in focus shots with IS off compared to on. I am however a bit of an ex-audiophile, and that world is full of placebos! It's easy to trick your mind and ears and I imagine this is also going to come into play with going with how things 'feel' when toggling IS on/off.



AF.C with a target coming towards you at high speed?! I try and do that on a bright day with my kids (whom I am imagining are slower than your bowow)and my K-1 cannot cope with that! It's one of the tests I aim to put them through at a later date, get them to do some running at me in the park with the same parameters but toggling IS on/off to see if there is a trend in more shots being in focus than not.
I used AF.S.
09-07-2017, 06:58 PM - 1 Like   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
This is what intrigues me the most. Yesterday I turned IS off and used AF.C to try and capture some shots of my daughter on the trampoline. Now it could be my imagination but it really felt like I was getting way more in focus shots with IS off compared to on. I am however a bit of an ex-audiophile, and that world is full of placebos! It's easy to trick your mind and ears and I imagine this is also going to come into play with going with how things 'feel' when toggling IS on/off.
This is not surprising and not you imagination or placebo effect at all.

SR really only works for stationary subjects or (in new SR systems) also for 1-dimensional steady panning shots. For the SR system, an intentional change in panning direction (e.g., following the bouncing motion on a trampoline) looks identical to a tremor in your hand. The SR will try to remove the change in pan direction until it realizes the motion is not a tremor and then the sensor will be jerked a bit whilst the camera tries to restabilize on the new panning direction. The K-1 is much better than the K-5 was in handling intentional changes in motion (not sure how the K-3 does) but even on the K-1 you can hear and feel the sensor jerk if the panning motion is not smooth.

Part of the challenge of learning to get the most out of the SR system is in avoiding sinuous up-down-up or left-right-left motions (or knowing that shots taken during a change in direction will be very blurry).
09-07-2017, 08:36 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The z-axis is the most challenging for any camera, for sure, and I'm an amateur casually pointing my handheld K-1 with a Tamron 70-200 (not some expensive sports lens) at a runner, but here is an entire sequence, approaching me and then running past.

The ninth shot was cropped and processed as the 'keeper' for my social media. (Image stablilization was probably on, BTW!)
Nice sequence of shots. Were you shooting from the Live View or not? I heard/read that the Live View screen does a better job of tracking the subject as they run towards you than the OVF? I also can't really tell if all the shots are focused as I can't zoom in, but the one you chose to keep definitely looks sharp and spot on.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I used AF.S.
Ok now this makes little sense to me lol. Maybe we are talking different language here but burst to me means using the actual continuous shooting mode (H, M or L) and therefore holding the shutter button down for the burst. If you have AF.S selected, the beginning shots of the burst (frames 1-3 say) would be the only ones in focus, the rest (as the subject comes closer to the camera) would be blurry as the focus point was 'locked' at the start of the burst, the only way to correct this is to then take the finger of the shutter and press again to pick a new focus point, but again if bursting the same would apply as before. The idea of doing a 23 burst and a subject coming towards you (with 100% focus ratio i.e. 23/23 in focus) would be to either use AF.S and manually refocus with AF.S every single shot (ie 23 shutter presses, and therefore not a 'burst'), or use AF.C so that as the subject approaches the camera the camera is refocusing between every shot (and therefore it's probably M or L setting used to give the camera enough time to refocus, that is if 100% of the 23 shots are in focus).
09-07-2017, 09:26 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Nice sequence of shots. Were you shooting from the Live View or not? I heard/read that the Live View screen does a better job of tracking the subject as they run towards you than the OVF? I also can't really tell if all the shots are focused as I can't zoom in, but the one you chose to keep definitely looks sharp and spot on.
It's no different from the others, Bruce. It's in focus, alright, but it's handheld so there will be both camera shake and motion blur from the runner, of course.

Practice, practice, practice.

If I can do this, so can you!

As for using Live View, that would be disastrous.

That method is CDAF, like on traditional mirrorless cameras:

Capturing Action with a Micro Four Thirds Camera

Last edited by clackers; 09-07-2017 at 09:37 PM.
09-07-2017, 09:55 PM   #87
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I asked the wildlife photographer I quoted a few comments back about in camera stabilisation for BIF and he said that with Olympus he deactivates only the stabilisation from the lens and he leaves active the stabilisation from the camera when he is shooting BIF.

He will probably get in detail when he will have time. I will bring you fresh updates when he will talk about in body stabilisation. I don't know how different the in body stabilisation from Oly is compared to the one from Pentax, but I guess is prety similar.
09-07-2017, 10:12 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I asked the wildlife photographer I quoted a few comments back about in camera stabilisation for BIF and he said that with Olympus he deactivates only the stabilisation from the lens and he leaves active the stabilisation from the camera when he is shooting BIF.

He will probably get in detail when he will have time. I will bring you fresh updates when he will talk about in body stabilisation. I don't know how different the in body stabilisation from Oly is compared to the one from Pentax, but I guess is prety similar.
Looking forward to it, Dan, it'll be interesting even if the concepts are a bit different.
09-07-2017, 10:32 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It's no different from the others, Bruce. It's in focus, alright, but it's handheld so there will be both camera shake and motion blur from the runner, of course.

Practice, practice, practice.

If I can do this, so can you!

As for using Live View, that would be disastrous.

That method is CDAF, like on traditional mirrorless cameras:

Capturing Action with a Micro Four Thirds Camera
Ah... I think I'm just confused, I do seem to recall reading something somewhere about the difference of AF.C in Live View vs OVF, each one does better than the other in different scenarios I think (IIRC).
09-08-2017, 12:16 AM - 1 Like   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
SR systems (both in-body and in-lens versions) have some minimum response time over which they measure movement of the camera, estimate a correcting shift of the sensor or lens, and electromechanically induce that shift. They are best suited for responding to the minor tremors and vibrations of the human hand rather than sharp shocks. Mirror slap and especially shutter shock are so fast the SR system can't keep up.
I did some testing on how VR and AR react to different kinds of vibrations, For the video both the K5 with 300mm along with a D800 and 300mm lens are anchored together with a steel plate and also the ends of the lenses are strapped together.
I then introduced different level of vibrations.

I then sinked both liveview videos together into one video, For the D800 the clock has a golden tint while the K5 has more silver, as you can see VR handles the smaller faster impacts from striking the setup.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Kf5MMM9/0/61ba1d44/640/i-Kf5MMM9-640.mp4

photo of the 2 units
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