[beholder3]

Part of the challenge of learning to get the most out of

You are too old school. "Learning" and all this yesterday's crap. The typical forum user wants green mode for everything. Put the camera on a tripod, walk away and then watch the made images in instagram.

[Zafar Iqbal]

I have the impression that SR can hurt when it's not needed (while shooting handheld). Is there any truth to this?

[photoptimist]

You are too old school. "Learning" and all this yesterday's crap. The typical forum user wants green mode for everything. Put the camera on a tripod, walk away and then watch the made images in instagram.

LOL! P-mode is "Professional", right????? ;-)

(Alas, we live in a world where products are judged good or bad by some internet "expert" living in his parent's basement who spends 15 minutes playing with the product and then scribbles some clickbait.)

[savoche]

One stop progression in terms of aperture are 2.0...2.8...4.0....5.6...8.0

Just in case anyone wonders where these numbers come from, they are (approximately) square roots.
sqrt(2) ~ 1.4
sqrt(4) = 2
sqrt(8) ~ 2.8
sqrt(16) = 4
sqrt(32) ~ 5.6
etc

[beholder3]

(Alas, we live in a world where products are judged good or bad by some internet "expert" living in his parent's basement who spends 15 minutes playing with the product and then scribbles some clickbait.)

You actually describe the modern pro technical editor. The average expert wouldn't waste 15 minutes, but just read a marketing spec sheet. Top level enthusiasts then create youtube videos based off that specsheet.

[photoptimist]

Just in case anyone wonders where these numbers come from, they are (approximately) square roots.
sqrt(2) ~ 1.4
sqrt(4) = 2
sqrt(8) ~ 2.8
sqrt(16) = 4
sqrt(32) ~ 5.6
etc

Indeed! And the typical shutterspeeds are powers of two, also:

1/2 ~ 1/2
1/4 ~ 1/4
1/8 ~ 1/8
1/16 ~ 1/15
1/32 ~ 1/30
1/64 ~ 1/60
1/128 ~ 1/125
1/256 ~ 1/250
1/512 ~ 1/500
1/1024 ~ 1/1000

Each consecutive EV, aperture stop, and shutterspeed represents a doubling (or halving) of total light.

[mohb]

Given that Pentax have been using IBIS for a decade if there were any problems with when and how to use it I am sure there would be endless threads on the forum pointing out its failings, as it is the only question seems to be 'how many stops?'

[normhead]

Given that Pentax have been using IBIS for a decade if there were any problems with when and how to use it I am sure there would be endless threads on the forum pointing out its failings, as it is the only question seems to be 'how many stops?'

It seems to be a matter of preference.
Given that I rarely even pay attention to shutter speed, unless I hear "kerplunk" instead of "click" to me, it's just something I simply choose not to think about. Why clutter your life thinking about largely inconsequential subjects?

The amount I reduce my images for display makes minor softness undetectable. The following image is very slow shutter speed , makes use of SR and a fast lens, and pixel peeping has very narrow DoF, but this is the largest it will ever be displayed and for the most part, people won't know it's soft or care. The most important part of using SR, is understanding when it might be essential to turn it off. For me, most of my images don't depend on being razor sharp. And if they do, I have never seen a situation where SR hurts me. IN situations where it should be off, for me, it is, because I'm on a two second delay. If you're going to worry about miniscule SR artifacts, well, mirror shock is worse. You solve all your problems going to the 2 second delay, and when you pixel shift, you go to the electronic shutter and you solve the shutter shock problem as well. It's all built in so you don't have to think about it much.

So I don't.

[Rondec]

Given that Pentax have been using IBIS for a decade if there were any problems with when and how to use it I am sure there would be endless threads on the forum pointing out its failings, as it is the only question seems to be 'how many stops?'

I just think that in the end SR only does so much. You really need a relatively still subject or you end up with blur, regardless of how awesome your SR is. To me, it is more of a question of what your subject is. If you are doing a portrait shoot, you probably can tolerate a relatively low shutter speed, but if you are taking photos of your kid's basketball game, then you'd better have a faster shutter speed or you'll just have a blurry mess.

I really haven't ever seen SR detract from an image, but it would make sense that it wouldn't be advisable when shooting from a tripod. When shooting from a tripod, I typically use the electronic shutter and a remote/2 second self timer.

[BruceBanner]

It seems to be a matter of preference.
Given that I rarely even pay attention to shutter speed, unless I hear "kerplunk" instead of "click" to me, it's just something I simply choose not to think about. Why clutter your life thinking about largely inconsequential subjects?

The amount I reduce my images for display makes minor softness undetectable. The following image is very slow shutter speed , makes use of SR and a fast lens, and pixel peeping has very narrow DoF, but this is the largest it will ever be displayed and for the most part, people won't know it's soft or care. The most important part of using SR, is understanding when it might be essential to turn it off. For me, most of my images don't depend on being razor sharp. And if they do, I have never seen a situation where SR hurts me. IN situations where it should be off, for me, it is, because I'm on a two second delay. If you're going to worry about miniscule SR artifacts, well, mirror shock is worse. You solve all your problems going to the 2 second delay, and when you pixel shift, you go to the electronic shutter and you solve the shutter shock problem as well. It's all built in so you don't have to think about it much.

So I don't.

I just think that in the end SR only does so much. You really need a relatively still subject or you end up with blur, regardless of how awesome your SR is. To me, it is more of a question of what your subject is. If you are doing a portrait shoot, you probably can tolerate a relatively low shutter speed, but if you are taking photos of your kid's basketball game, then you'd better have a faster shutter speed or you'll just have a blurry mess.

I really haven't ever seen SR detract from an image, but it would make sense that it wouldn't be advisable when shooting from a tripod. When shooting from a tripod, I typically use the electronic shutter and a remote/2 second self timer.

Replying to you both here as you are touching upon the same issue.

I'm with you in the 'not that bothered about losing 5% sharpness' aspect of using IS, but for me I am more concerned whether using SR when it's not required is detrimental to other very important photography components such as AF success. If shooting like you say a kid's basketball game, and the shutter speed is high enough (but perhaps not so high that there isn't some motion captured somewhere, to give that sense of speed and movement), what if having IS on when clearly not required at those shutter speeds actually slowed down the AF efficiency and you were left with less shots in focus than if you had toggled off. There seems to be some chitchat regarding toggling off IS will improve the speed and effectiveness of AF especially in AF.C mode (which is useful for action). You might end up with slightly sharper shots and a higher success ratio of getting the best shot from a burst in focus rather than slightly off.
And then there is the conservation of battery life which is also apparently said to occur when togging IS off (but I'm not overly concerned about that).

I don't think anyone here is saying those 1/8th or 1/13th shot whilst using SR is bad idea, that's exactly what it's intention is to do, give you clear shots at low shutter speeds that otherwise would not have been possible. The argument in this thread is if it detracts from other aspects where that kinda shutter speed and scenario are not the issue.

[normhead]

To me in the restaurant shot above the blurred out waitress is part of the appeal of the image. I tossed the images without motion blur.

If shooting like you say a kid's basketball game, and the shutter speed is high enough

Given that blur from camera movement is observable at 1/1000s, and we don't know when it stops, that i find that highly unlikely.

You might end up with slightly sharper shots and a higher success ratio of getting the best shot from a burst in focus rather than slightly off.

I've not noticed slower AF with SR on and have no idea where that is coming from. IN fact for most of my bursts I set the camera for first frame confirmation only and don't refocus after the first image. That's the only way to get an 8 FPS burst. If the subject appears to have moved out of my DoF I lift my finger off the shutter release and force the camera to refocus. Many time this works for even a 23 shot burst.

I'm going to turn off SR when I see conclusive evidence I should. I see absotley no reason to accept speculation about this, especially since I get so many sharp images with it on.

[ffking]

Reading this thread, and thinking a little further myself from my original contribution, I'm going to marginally change my position. Actually SR is a specific tool for a specific set of conditions and, as such, should be left off by default. The problem is that it's also effectively a safety measure - like auto exposure -and it's something that few of us think about in the heat of the moment - so it's safer to leave on as default in the same way that you might spin the dial to Auto to ensure an acceptable if not optimal shot when you simply don't have time to optimise the settings. Either way, it makes sense to have at least one user mode where it's turned off, or to set the top selector dial to SR so that it can be turned on or off with one click of the 3rd control wheel - but I'd have to see in practice what pros and cons that brings with it

[normhead]

Actually SR is a specific tool for a specific set of conditions and, as such, should be left off by default.

If you provide some kind of evidence as to why it should be left off, this would seem more reasonable. SR is for a specific condition, that being, when your hand is touching the camera. The rest of the time you can turn it off.

Even putting your finger on the shutter release button to trigger the shutter on a camera mounted on a tripod can cause enough camera movement to degrade an image. Unless you are shooting hands free and vibration free (mirror shock).. SR should be on.

One of my big complaints with SR, is I can't turn it on for the 2 second delay. Even a remote isn't workable if there is going to be mirror shock. I've had my camera out on nights with a light wind and seen my camera shaking because of tripod movement while on the timer. Unfortunately my only option is to take hand held shots, because I can't force the camera to use SR while on the 2 second delay.

I often shoot a burst with SR on, doing macro or telephoto hand held, Much of the time my hand movements exceed the capability of SR and I get nothing. But because I shoot a burst, if I shoot a four shot burst, on one of them the camera might be still enough to get me an image with the help of SR. Without SR I'd have nothing to show for my efforts. But then, as with anything, I always use the limits of technology. Always lookingg for the easy path. If others want to live in the past and ignore the benefits of SR, which I often find to be just astounding (my picture above is a fairly classic example, an image that in the days of film would have had to have been taken with a tripod but today was hand shot standing up in a public space using SR and a .3 second exposure)) I actually have no issue with that. What I do have an issue is with if people giving advice to others based on antiquated film era ideas and thought processes, while offering no evidence to suggest that what they advocate has any basis in the empirical world, beyond the musings of a few dreamers discussing things they haven't researched. There is always what might be and what is.

If real world examples don't exist, whatever it is you are discussing, it doesn't exist in the real world. I kind of feel like this whole discussion of SR ignores that maxim. You can only waste so much time speculating about how things work. And I have to say, some of what has been posted is science fiction and should be labelled as such. For example SR slows down your burst rate. I get 8 FPS with SR on. What slows down, your burst rate is too slow an exposure or using continuous AF. Honestly, why do people waste so much time inventing reason why not to use SR?

What is it about SR that stops people from thinking they need to test it, to understand it?

Believe on one who can't provide solid test data, test everything.

[Rondec]

If you provide some kind of evidence as to why it should be left off, this would seem more reasonable. SR if for a specific condition, that being, when you hand is touching the camera. The rest of the time you can turn it off.

Even putting you finger on the shutter release button to trigger the shutter on a camera mounted on a tripod can cause enough camera movement to degrade an image. Unless you are shooting hands free and vibration free (mirror shock).. SR should be on.

One of my big complaints with SR, is I can't turn it on for the 2 second delay. Even a remote isn't workable if there is going to be mirror shock. I've had my camera out on nights with a light wind and seen my camera shaking because of tripod movement while on the timer. Unfortunately my only option is to take hand held shots, because I can't force the camera to use SR while on the 2 second delay.

Use the electronic shutter. That is the answer. The camera automatically does that for pixel shift images, but you can use it with live view. On the other hand, you can enable the camera to use SR with remote control/2 second timer via number 21 in the menus, if you think that would work better.

[normhead]

Use the electronic shutter. That is the answer. The camera automatically does that for pixel shift images, but you can use it with live view. On the other hand, you can enable the camera to use SR with remote control/2 second timer via number 21 in the menus, if you think that would work better.

Which also begs the question, are Pixel Shift images so often razor sharp, because of the default to the electronic timer, or because of pixel shift? I can see i might be true, both ways or one or the other.