FF really needed for a shot like this?

grispie · 09-07-2017, 12:21 PM

I like these kinds of shots with a 35mm prime at f1.4 on a FF camera
Whether the subject is a person or something else.

????? by Marat Safin - Photo 211869029 / 500px

I 'm not really needing a FF though. My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing.
I wonder if a 24mm at 1.4 is able to?
thnks
chr

Adam · 09-07-2017, 12:27 PM

FF or not shouldn't be the deciding factor, but yes, the lens, DoF, and positioning certainly play a role. The K-3 with the 24mm F1.4 wide-open and close to the subject would probably do the trick

Also, if the shot was taken with the Sigma 35mm, it would explain the bokeh. That lens is nothing short of a legend IMO, especially on full frame.

08amczb · 09-07-2017, 12:58 PM

I've bought the FA* 24 F2. I like the 35mm FF shots too. The FA* 24 is very good lens, but you can't produce this shallow DoF with it. This is my new goto lens when I bring only one.

aurele · 09-07-2017, 01:19 PM - **5 Likes**

The key on this picture is quite a bit of processing i think.

The DoF is not that shallow (the grass on the right can give you an idea, around 60cm probably).

Processing with a tad of vignetting.
Sharpness is decrease around the subject in quite an oval form, and increase on the subject. Some easy photoshop at work here.
Some color / contrast / curves looking like a VSCO preset of something like Fuji 400h or 400h+1, custom Provia for portraits, Ektar 100, E200.

If i do comparaison, let's say that taking the photo of the girl was like doing the countour of the drawing, with the pencil. Drawings lines.
Photoshop adjustement (vignetting, sharpness, color, etc) is like coloring the drawing.

To get such a shot, you need gear, but you don't specificaly need the same gear. You also need (and that's the most important i think) understand how to do some processing of the picture.

Originally posted by grispie

I like these kinds of shots with a 35mm prime at f1.4 on a FF camera
Whether the subject is a person or something else.

????? by Marat Safin - Photo 211869029 / 500px

I 'm not really needing a FF though. My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing.
I wonder if a 24mm at 1.4 is able to?
thnks
chr

Nuno Almeida · 09-07-2017, 01:57 PM - **1 Like**

Brenzier effect, don't believe that picture wasn't taken with a wide angle, that and all aurele has said.

**clackers** · 09-07-2017, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by grispie

I like these kinds of shots with a 35mm prime at f1.4 on a FF camera
Whether the subject is a person or something else.

????? by Marat Safin - Photo 211869029 / 500px

I 'm not really needing a FF though. My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing.
I wonder if a 24mm at 1.4 is able to?
thnks
chr

Have a look through Safin's feed.

If you get in close as he does with the FA31 or Sigma 35mm and K-1, you'll get those shots.

On your K-3 you'd need the Samyang 24mm at f1.4.

He must do a bit of cropping, because the shots don't look all that wide ... but he must have something in his head that a 50mm f1.4 wouldn't achieve.

pschlute · 09-07-2017, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by 08amczb

I've bought the FA* 24 F2. I like the 35mm FF shots too. The FA* 24 is very good lens, but you can't produce this shallow DoF with it. This is my new goto lens when I bring only one.

The FA* 24 f2 is a lovely lens. It has had mixed press over the years, but I love it for a walkaroung on FF format.

You can easily recreate the DOF of this image with the FA*. The picture posted (FF + 35mm 1.4 lens) ...the photog had to be about 12 feet from the subject. Gives him 3 foot of DOF at f1.4. I think the DOF in the pic is a little more

FA* 24mm you would need to stand closer, but not too close or your perspective will be all mucked up. Say 7 feet. FA*... 7 feet at f2 = 3 foot DOF

Na Horuk · 09-07-2017, 02:48 PM

Probably something like the Samyang 20mm or 24mm on an APSC camera could get similar effects at widest aperture. Maybe even the 16mm f2 lens. My Samyang 14mm has really wide DoF even if the subject is only a meter or two far
Pentax doesn't have a super fast wide lens at the moment.

Originally posted by aurele

The key on this picture is quite a bit of processing i think.

I concur.
The photo is great because the photographer chose a good time of day (for light), interesting composition (blades of grass nearby, then the mountains really far in the background), has good looking model, was taken with the right settings, and it was post processed well. PP at the end is important.

Originally posted by grispie

My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing.

Maybe you can show us? At 1.9 you should get fairly shallow DoF. How far was the model? Should get them as close as possible, just as long as they fit in

Sandy Hancock · 09-07-2017, 03:37 PM - **1 Like**

To replicate it on APS-C you would need a 24mm f/1.0 lens. Good luck with that

I have just started using the Sigma 35/1.4 on my K-1 and it is very impressive.
My models are not as beautiful as Marat's though

**clackers** · 09-07-2017, 04:03 PM - **1 Like**

For a dreamy, contemplative shot, whatever your format, you want the longest lens, widest aperture, shortest distance to subject, and furthest distance to the background (I like to have some coloured objects back there, even cars, that will get abstracted when out of focus).

The top shot below is on FF, the bottom is on APS-C. The FA-77 is used in both cases.

Topsy · 09-07-2017, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

My models are not as beautiful as Marat's though

Now that's hardly fair! I'd have used "different", that's way less harsh!

Grispie, you could try your luck with a focal reducer? That is if one exists for k-mount..

**jbinpg** · 09-07-2017, 04:40 PM

An aside: does anyone know if this is the former world tennis #1 Marat Safin? I know he went into politics and joined Putin's United Russia party but I didn't know he was a photographer.

Sandy Hancock · 09-07-2017, 05:13 PM

According to his Facebook page he was born in 1993, so it would seem unlikely

**clackers** · 09-07-2017, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Topsy

Now that's hardly fair! I'd have used "different", that's way less harsh!

Grispie, you could try your luck with a focal reducer? That is if one exists for k-mount..

I don't think the likely reduction in image quality from putting some extra glass in the way of the sensor will be worthwhile, Topsy.

Almost no one does this, in any mount.

Topsy · 09-07-2017, 06:19 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

I don't think the likely reduction in image quality from putting some extra glass in the way of the sensor will be worthwhile, Topsy.

Almost no one does this, in any mount.

No, for your or me* it most likely wouldn't be worthwhile, but I guess if you're just going for the general look it might be the cheapest way to get you 'there'.
*I guess. I prefer character over the best IQ, though I do obviously want decent glass.

09-07-2017, 12:27 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	FF or not shouldn't be the deciding factor, but yes, the lens, DoF, and positioning certainly play a role. The K-3 with the 24mm F1.4 wide-open and close to the subject would probably do the trick Also, if the shot was taken with the Sigma 35mm, it would explain the bokeh. That lens is nothing short of a legend IMO, especially on full frame. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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09-07-2017, 12:21 PM	#1
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	FF really needed for a shot like this? I like these kinds of shots with a 35mm prime at f1.4 on a FF camera Whether the subject is a person or something else. ????? by Marat Safin - Photo 211869029 / 500px I 'm not really needing a FF though. My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing. I wonder if a 24mm at 1.4 is able to? thnks chr

09-07-2017, 12:58 PM	#3
08amczb Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 796	I've bought the FA* 24 F2. I like the 35mm FF shots too. The FA* 24 is very good lens, but you can't produce this shallow DoF with it. This is my new goto lens when I bring only one.

09-07-2017, 01:19 PM - 5 Likes	#4
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	The key on this picture is quite a bit of processing i think. The DoF is not that shallow (the grass on the right can give you an idea, around 60cm probably). Processing with a tad of vignetting. Sharpness is decrease around the subject in quite an oval form, and increase on the subject. Some easy photoshop at work here. Some color / contrast / curves looking like a VSCO preset of something like Fuji 400h or 400h+1, custom Provia for portraits, Ektar 100, E200. If i do comparaison, let's say that taking the photo of the girl was like doing the countour of the drawing, with the pencil. Drawings lines. Photoshop adjustement (vignetting, sharpness, color, etc) is like coloring the drawing. To get such a shot, you need gear, but you don't specificaly need the same gear. You also need (and that's the most important i think) understand how to do some processing of the picture. Originally posted by grispie I like these kinds of shots with a 35mm prime at f1.4 on a FF camera Whether the subject is a person or something else. ????? by Marat Safin - Photo 211869029 / 500px I 'm not really needing a FF though. My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing. I wonder if a 24mm at 1.4 is able to? thnks chr

09-07-2017, 01:57 PM - 1 Like	#5
Nuno Almeida Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Aveiro Posts: 179	Brenzier effect, don't believe that picture wasn't taken with a wide angle, that and all aurele has said.

09-07-2017, 02:08 PM	#6
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by grispie I like these kinds of shots with a 35mm prime at f1.4 on a FF camera Whether the subject is a person or something else. ????? by Marat Safin - Photo 211869029 / 500px I 'm not really needing a FF though. My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing. I wonder if a 24mm at 1.4 is able to? thnks chr Have a look through Safin's feed. If you get in close as he does with the FA31 or Sigma 35mm and K-1, you'll get those shots. On your K-3 you'd need the Samyang 24mm at f1.4. He must do a bit of cropping, because the shots don't look all that wide ... but he must have something in his head that a 50mm f1.4 wouldn't achieve.

09-07-2017, 02:16 PM	#7
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by 08amczb I've bought the FA* 24 F2. I like the 35mm FF shots too. The FA* 24 is very good lens, but you can't produce this shallow DoF with it. This is my new goto lens when I bring only one. The FA* 24 f2 is a lovely lens. It has had mixed press over the years, but I love it for a walkaroung on FF format. You can easily recreate the DOF of this image with the FA. The picture posted (FF + 35mm 1.4 lens) ...the photog had to be about 12 feet from the subject. Gives him 3 foot of DOF at f1.4. I think the DOF in the pic is a little more FA 24mm you would need to stand closer, but not too close or your perspective will be all mucked up. Say 7 feet. FA*... 7 feet at f2 = 3 foot DOF

09-07-2017, 02:48 PM	#8
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Probably something like the Samyang 20mm or 24mm on an APSC camera could get similar effects at widest aperture. Maybe even the 16mm f2 lens. My Samyang 14mm has really wide DoF even if the subject is only a meter or two far Pentax doesn't have a super fast wide lens at the moment. Originally posted by aurele The key on this picture is quite a bit of processing i think. I concur. The photo is great because the photographer chose a good time of day (for light), interesting composition (blades of grass nearby, then the mountains really far in the background), has good looking model, was taken with the right settings, and it was post processed well. PP at the end is important. Originally posted by grispie My K3 does fine sofar. With the fa31 fully open, i wasn't really able yet to get this kind of effect, or at least, not that convincing. Maybe you can show us? At 1.9 you should get fairly shallow DoF. How far was the model? Should get them as close as possible, just as long as they fit in

09-07-2017, 03:37 PM - 1 Like	#9
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	To replicate it on APS-C you would need a 24mm f/1.0 lens. Good luck with that I have just started using the Sigma 35/1.4 on my K-1 and it is very impressive. My models are not as beautiful as Marat's though

09-07-2017, 04:03 PM - 1 Like	#10
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	For a dreamy, contemplative shot, whatever your format, you want the longest lens, widest aperture, shortest distance to subject, and furthest distance to the background (I like to have some coloured objects back there, even cars, that will get abstracted when out of focus). The top shot below is on FF, the bottom is on APS-C. The FA-77 is used in both cases.

09-07-2017, 04:26 PM	#11
Topsy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 625	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock My models are not as beautiful as Marat's though Now that's hardly fair! I'd have used "different", that's way less harsh! Grispie, you could try your luck with a focal reducer? That is if one exists for k-mount..

09-07-2017, 04:40 PM	#12
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	An aside: does anyone know if this is the former world tennis #1 Marat Safin? I know he went into politics and joined Putin's United Russia party but I didn't know he was a photographer.

09-07-2017, 05:13 PM	#13
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	According to his Facebook page he was born in 1993, so it would seem unlikely

09-07-2017, 05:15 PM	#14
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Topsy Now that's hardly fair! I'd have used "different", that's way less harsh! Grispie, you could try your luck with a focal reducer? That is if one exists for k-mount.. I don't think the likely reduction in image quality from putting some extra glass in the way of the sensor will be worthwhile, Topsy. Almost no one does this, in any mount.

09-07-2017, 06:19 PM - 1 Like	#15
Topsy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 625	Originally posted by clackers I don't think the likely reduction in image quality from putting some extra glass in the way of the sensor will be worthwhile, Topsy. Almost no one does this, in any mount. No, for your or me* it most likely wouldn't be worthwhile, but I guess if you're just going for the general look it might be the cheapest way to get you 'there'. *I guess. I prefer character over the best IQ, though I do obviously want decent glass.