[BruceBanner]

I'm pretty hyped, tomorrow I'm snapping Suicidal Tendencies in Sydney

I'm going to use my typical concert shooting modes but I wanted to put it out there if anyone else wanted to share some User Mode settings that have tried and had success with for Concert shooting (think dingy poor lighting, smoke machines etc, I know the venue fairly well and that's likely going to be the scenario).

Perhaps you might even want to share the settings you use via the Pentax User Mode spreadsheet I created; Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

Anyway, if you like fill it in and resubmit, also keen to hear why you have x,y and z set as such etc.

Cheers!

Bruce

[UncleVanya]

I mainly adjust white balance manually if the lighting is consistent, otherwise left on auto. I tend to shoot in manual exposure mode and chimp. I also shoot in raw+, nothing else differs from my normal mode.

[BruceBanner]

I mainly adjust white balance manually if the lighting is consistent, otherwise left on auto. I tend to shoot in manual exposure mode and chimp. I also shoot in raw+, nothing else differs from my normal mode.

This is where I usually encounter buffering issues, I get the 3 songs in the frantic photo pit to get the job done and then its all over, so spamming can occur. I definitely don't RAW+ for this, however I do end up writing to both cards (RAW).

I tend to have a couple of User Modes set up, spot SEL with one positioned above centre by 1 in landscape orientation, the other the same in portrait. Sometimes I also have one mode AF.C and the other AF.S. With the KP I have AV Bracketing shooting mode, I think it helps 'salvage' a shot if my initial shallow DoF misses the mark, the narrower aperture shots that follow might grab a better shot (albeit higher noise).
I sometimes underexpose as well, -1.7 EV etc, in a bid to keep ISO down for the shot. I tend to try and keep the ISO between 100-6400.

Hmm... what else...

AW on. In the past I've used centre weighted for metering, this time I think I'll try Matrix + the C1-5 (making the metering follow the focus point), been trying this out a tad this week and I think it does produce a significant better shot than any other combination (thanks beholder3!).

[PDL]

I spot meter off of something/someone and take those settings to set the camera to manual.

I chimp once at the beginning to check the histogram and look for highlight blinkies, make adjustments as necessary. Then never chimp again during the shoot. Chimping requires you to take "your eye off the ball". Since you are limited to three songs, why waste time chimping each shot? These days three songs are running around 9 minutes (3 minutes a song) so use your time shooting not looking. Turn off instant preview, there are few things more irritating than having what looks like a flashlight/strobe going off every few seconds for 9 minutes in front of you. (from the perspective of the paying audience standing/sitting behind you)

Use Back Button Focus so you can shoot off a set of images without having the camera hunt every time you release the shutter button.

The concerts I shoot are for non-profits (mostly Classical music) where I am not limited by the dreaded "three song rule". Push up your ISO so you can get to a Depth of Field you can live with. Use the fastest glass you have and be ready to switch to wider apertures and faster shutter speeds as necessary. Or slow down the shutter and close down the aperture to get some level of blur.

And of course shoot RAW while hoping/praying for minimal post processing requirements.

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Last edited by PDL; 03-21-2018 at 10:25 PM. Reason: little things, timing, finesse and other good advice.

[dms]

I shoot theatre, and presume similar considerations.

I normally choose the fstop and shutter speed that I want--typically 1 stop closed and the slowest shutter speed that I expect will stop most but not all motion, and then the lowest iso that will still give me an image I can reasonably check out on the LCD (typically this is iso 400 and is about 2 e.v. less than nominal). This usually avoids blowing out highlights and gives a wide DR.

The white balance considerations may be different in theatre--but I choose tungsten lighting WB and then fix it in raw pp (PS bridge), but key is whether I want the lighting designer's intent, or do I want the skin tones to look realistic--although not a rule usually if slightly off I want realistic and if way off I want the lighting designer's intent to show.

I would add, if the production is not very dark, I try and use f/4 or f/5.6 and lenses ranging from fish eye to 135 mm or possibly 200 mm (on Pentax cropped sensor), but much of what I do is in the 16~20 mm FL,** and I am interested in documenting the production and less so getting shallow DOF portraits. Only if very dark do I use (for the wide to mid-range FLs) more open f-stop of f/2 to f/2.8.
_____
** This means I can use zone focusing.

[BruceBanner]

Ok, so the concert is over, I captured over 20 shots I am happy to have my name next to, they can be found here if anyone would like a peak >>> Live | Flickr

During the support band I made some tweaks over certain settings I wasn't overly chuffed with the results, namely stuff like moving to spot metering, and taking off Focus Priority to Release Priority.

The curious decision i made was to limit ISO to 6400. Actually I'll just share my spreadsheet with my settings, allows people to see exactly what settings I was using; Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

To sum it up, I felt I needed to get off Focus Priority as with the low light and AF assist lagging in determining when to toggle on and assist, the shot was over by the time the system had caught up. I needed to fire shots of quicker even if that meant a bunch of soft out of focus shots was occurring.

I was in Av mode and shot pretty much wide with most of the lenses (2.8 with the DFA 100, 1.8 with the FA 50mm (in AV Bracketing mode so subsequent shots were narrower).
Shooting mode Medium Burst
I made a conscious decision to limit ISO to 6400.
Every shot was underexposed by -1.7
SEL mode and the spot was typical one up from center or one to the left (I made two User modes, one 'landscape' orientation and the other 'portrait').
I liked AE and AF Point (C1-5)

This meant that occasionally the shutter speed dropped very low, around 1/30th etc, this in a low light venue with energetic animated performers proved extremely difficult. This is why I am convinced that spamming the shutter is a necessary evil in these kinda scenarios, in among the 10 fired off you will get a shot at 1/30th that gets the shot perfect, subject still enough, focus on, and ISO at a reasonable level.
It's perhaps true that if I lifted the ISO higher I would have had more in focus shots, higher shutter speeds to perhaps work with, but I guess it depends what you're aiming for. I'm happy to walk away with 20 or so good shots vs 40 at a noise level that can't compete with the aforementioned 20.

Perhaps next time I will reserve more Usermodes for higher ISO and compare the results and toggle throughout the concert.

Anyway, have a look at those settings, what else might you have done/tweaked etc.
I realise it's all very hard to take into account if not at the venue that night and not really sure of the lighting and environment. I've shot in the same venue with far better lighting (to the point the performer asked them to dim the lights after we had finished the shots), that was a great shooting day lol.

This video link my work for you; Eddy Summers - Stolen from facemaskguy. Snappity snap... (might give you an idea)

I'm the photographer closest wearing the Scottish bandanna.

[rawr]

Anyway, have a look at those settings

Shots came out great. Colour temperature looks good, compositions fine, nice sharp selection.

For that gig, that stage and a lens like the 100mm I would have gone shutter priority (or TAV/manual) and stuck to about 1/125/180 or something. And set the aperture wide open, or one click away from wide open.

Good idea to limit ISO to 6400. If it underexposes sometimes while holding 1/180, you can still boost a 6400 ISO K-1 image comfortably a stop or two in post. But you can't fix blur in post.

IMHO, no need to leave XMP in your flickr metadata. You can strip XMP out (unless you want to potentially reveal your processing workflow ...) and just show the EXIF basics (lens, aperture, fstop, shutter, GPS etc). On that subject, curiously the aperture or shutter speed is not showing in your flickr EXIF for those shots, just the camera and lens model.

[BruceBanner]

Shots came out great. Colour temperature looks good, compositions fine, nice sharp selection.

For that gig, that stage and a lens like the 100mm I would have gone shutter priority (or TAV/manual) and stuck to about 1/125/180 or something. And set the aperture wide open, or one click away from wide open.

Good idea to limit ISO to 6400. If it underexposes sometimes while holding 1/180, you can still boost a 6400 ISO K-1 image comfortably a stop or two in post. But you can't fix blur in post.

IMHO, no need to leave XMP in your flickr metadata. You can strip XMP out (unless you want to potentially reveal your processing workflow ...) and just show the EXIF basics (lens, aperture, fstop, shutter, GPS etc). On that subject, curiously the aperture or shutter speed is not showing in your flickr EXIF for those shots, just the camera and lens model.

Thanks, I'm still learning a lot and plan to do more (concert) shooting so I am generally after cc and feedback and ways to do better in the future so I thank you for your feedback, it's appreciated.

Now, you say perhaps shooting TAv mode and fixing shutter speed higher, say 1/125-180th, if I do that, and still shoot wide, and still limit ISO to 6400, that's going to mean my images get dangerously underexposed however, no? I mean... if I was shooting Av, and wide open and saying that multiple times I was seeing 1/30th shutter speeds (but maxing out at 6400) then doesn't that mean fixing shutter speed will then come with a tradeoff risk of having a non blurry shot but then a dangerously underexposed image?

I was going with the idea that at some point they (the performers) have to pause for a bit, and then if I spam the shutter, I should get a reasonably good capture even at 1/30th, then I get 'the shot' I'm after, clean, exposed fairly well and then also not suffering an insufferable ISO. Remember, I already have EV set at -1.7 as well...

I do like the idea of fixing the shutter speed higher tho. Could I then underexpose by even -2.3 (or -2.7) to compensate? I think the K-1 is a really good camera at salvaging under exposure in PP? Can we push it harder to fixing max ISO to 3200?! >

So, TAv 1/125, aperture wide, ISO 6400 max and then EV -2.3.... I might try that (with Spot metering and AE linked to AF point).

In terms of EXIF, I never mess much with it, it's just the editing process, LR>Topaz Plugins (becomes .TIF) and then LR and more Topaz etc... it just stuffs it all up. I would love for the plugins to keep the EXIF info like shutter speeds and aperture, ISO but I'm not sure if it can or I need to add manually at the end of processing (compare against the original DNG file and manually input, or can i copy it across?)

[brandon_s]

Some good shots there! A good mix of wide shots and close ups. I shoot concerts in Brisbane :-)

The non-technique settings I use are:
Turn on the RGB histogram. I chimp to check my exposure, and the RGB histogram helps identify if a particular colour channel has saturated which won't necessarily trigger the blinkies (especially red). I leave autofocus enabled on my shutter button and set my "back-button focus" button to cancel autofocus (so essentially the opposite to back-button focus). The third dial is set to ISO. I reduce the brightness of the LCD screen by one step which is a compromise to the previous suggestion of turning it off completely (and a partial press of the shutter will turn off the preview anyway). I shoot raw.

Basic technique:
I use full manual with auto white balance. Shutter usually stays at 1/160 sec which is a good compromise. Aperture is as wide as possible within the limits of the lens I'm using (usually f/2.8). ISO is whatever gets the exposure. I use single point focus. I also use spot metering.

I CHIMP ALOT!
I find spot metering to be hit and miss. Metering off smoke gives most accurate reading, but faces are not so good or are very dependant on the colour illuminating them. I'll take quick shots (with AF disabled by pressing button) to evaluate exposure using histogram. Once I'm happy with the exposure (usually achieved by adjusting ISO) I can run with those settings for quite a number of shots with some minor chimping in between. I will also note where the meter is sitting on the face so I can make minor exposure adjustment without chimping.

Finally, I think the best way to evaluate if your technique is improving is to look at your hit rate. My hit rate isn't the best (keepers/total shots ==== about 15%). The 3 song limit is a pain, but it does force you to not over shoot. know when you've got the shot and move on. Adopt a venue (no song limit, but good lighting) and be a regular there and make this your practicing ground.

[BruceBanner]

Some good shots there! A good mix of wide shots and close ups. I shoot concerts in Brisbane :-)

The non-technique settings I use are:
Turn on the RGB histogram. I chimp to check my exposure, and the RGB histogram helps identify if a particular colour channel has saturated which won't necessarily trigger the blinkies (especially red). I leave autofocus enabled on my shutter button and set my "back-button focus" button to cancel autofocus (so essentially the opposite to back-button focus). The third dial is set to ISO. I reduce the brightness of the LCD screen by one step which is a compromise to the previous suggestion of turning it off completely (and a partial press of the shutter will turn off the preview anyway). I shoot raw.

Basic technique:
I use full manual with auto white balance. Shutter usually stays at 1/160 sec which is a good compromise. Aperture is as wide as possible within the limits of the lens I'm using (usually f/2.8). ISO is whatever gets the exposure. I use single point focus. I also use spot metering.

I CHIMP ALOT!
I find spot metering to be hit and miss. Metering off smoke gives most accurate reading, but faces are not so good or are very dependant on the colour illuminating them. I'll take quick shots (with AF disabled by pressing button) to evaluate exposure using histogram. Once I'm happy with the exposure (usually achieved by adjusting ISO) I can run with those settings for quite a number of shots with some minor chimping in between. I will also note where the meter is sitting on the face so I can make minor exposure adjustment without chimping.

Finally, I think the best way to evaluate if your technique is improving is to look at your hit rate. My hit rate isn't the best (keepers/total shots ==== about 15%). The 3 song limit is a pain, but it does force you to not over shoot. know when you've got the shot and move on. Adopt a venue (no song limit, but good lighting) and be a regular there and make this your practicing ground.

Hi Brandon and welcome to PF!

Thanks for that, I been flat out busy this week so have only now gotten around to reading all of that. I think we share some similar settings.

I shoot primes and I have two cameras on my person. Usually I have the FA50mm1.4 on my KP and DFA 100 2.8 on my K-1. I spam a lot, when I encounter a buffering issue I switch camera's till it's resolved, this way I never have to wait. Having a prime that goes as low as f1.4 (I tend to shoot around 1.8-2 with it for a tad more sharpness) does mean I carry off a few shots with better ISO.

I am in Av mode, I make 6400 ISO my max, so if I'm at 2.8 or 1.8-2 then the ISO varies from shot to shot, as does the shutter speed, sometimes getting dangerously low (1/30th etc). I find spamming the shutter is best, especially when shooting at those low shutter speeds because among 10 blurry ones there will be a couple sharp with minimal movement. If I played safe and chose a higher shutter speed and kept it fix (like 1/160 like you say) then for sure there would be more keepers but they are noiser keepers. I'd rather walk away with 20 shots out of 500 fired and that the 20 are the best I could really have hoped for on the night.
Shutter speeds are really difficult to predict. ST move fast around the stage, whereas some other performers are more static. We all know that with a DFA 100mm (for example), we should manage to get a sharp shot (with SR on of course) around 1/100th, and if you're braced or steadier even lower. The same for the FA50mm, I should manage 1/50th fairly competently and even lower, but if the people are really energetic and moving fast then that thwarts things. But even humans need to take a rest, a couple of nice shots can occur when they're taking a slight pause.
So i would argue that fixing shutter speed to 1/160 or something is damaging potential IQ, you could go lower, it just might mean a more extensive culling process. I'm coming to the opinion that concert shooting carries the highest percentage rate of culling among all shooting conditions.

I did a month of using Manual Focus only (month of April and still going into the month of May), am I mad to consider dumping AF for my next concert and shoot MF only? I dunno... I have to put down a significant amount of the shots that get culled due to AF fails in difficult low light...

[brandon_s]

Hi,
I shoot mostly at 1/160, but I will bring the shutter down if the subject is stationary and is in a dark location on the stage. The main issue I had with auto ISO is that minimum shutter speed. I ran with Av for a while but couldn't keep up with the exposure compensation and suffered from burnt out faces, plus I didn't like to always go with a constant -2ev comp.

At a good venue I use the 24-70mm f2.8, and at darker venues I use a 50mm f1.4 (at f2). I'd like a 35mm f1.4, but don't wish to invest in that type of lens just yet.

Interesting to hear other people's technique in what is normally a very difficult shooting environment.

[BruceBanner]

Hi,
I shoot mostly at 1/160, but I will bring the shutter down if the subject is stationary and is in a dark location on the stage. The main issue I had with auto ISO is that minimum shutter speed. I ran with Av for a while but couldn't keep up with the exposure compensation and suffered from burnt out faces, plus I didn't like to always go with a constant -2ev comp.

At a good venue I use the 24-70mm f2.8, and at darker venues I use a 50mm f1.4 (at f2). I'd like a 35mm f1.4, but don't wish to invest in that type of lens just yet.

Interesting to hear other people's technique in what is normally a very difficult shooting environment.

Have you played with Slow, 'Normal' and Fast settings within the Menu 1>ISO AUTO Settings>AUTO ISO Parameters>Slow, 'No Name (but I take this as standard or 'Normal') and 'Fast'?

Choosing between the three makes the Av Auto ISO setting mean that the minimum shutter speed met changes.

Example;

K-1 + FA50mm1.4

If I set that setting to 'Fast' the shutter speed will not drop below 1/125th (with that lens).
'Normal' means it won't drop below 1/60th and 'Slow' means 1/30th.

K-1 + DFA 100mm 2.8 gives the following;
Fast = 1/250th
Normal = 1/125th
Slow = 1/60th

I find that very handy to the point I have in the past set up User 1 to being Slow, User 2 Normal and User 3 Fast, that way with one twist of the dial I can quickly keep up with the performer based on their actions.

Before I stumbled upon this I was using TAv mode, so that I could Manually change the shutter speed (and of course aperture). I got pretty annoyed with it tho, like for example;

I was shooting for our local school, bright blue sky day outside, we did some shots in the play ground and i was shooting wide open, f2 etc, that meant I needed 1/8000th etc to correctly expose. But then if it was say a cross country event and the kids ran into shaded areas, that screwed things up, I would manually have to change shutter speed. It got worse when we finished and did some more pics inside the classroom, now I needed 1/80th etc!
After awhile I felt as tho the constant checking the shutter speed and getting correct exposure for even 1hrs worth of shooting in a variety of different conditions became distracting to what I really wanted, which was to play with angles, composition and DoF. Finding Av mode and a way to specify the minimum shutter speed was a god send. For stationary people I could choose 'Slow' and get the highest IQ and lowerst ISO. Fast moving kids and I choose 'Fast' etc.
The only gripe I have is it's not customisable enough, it would be nice if you could tweak the algoriythm/percentage, so that perhaps Fast meant 1/500th, and Slow meant 1/80th and so on so forth.

Oh and yes I too tend to have a -1.7-2 ev value for concerts also. I find it easier to recover underexposed images, and the noise I feel is better than a correctly exposed (but higher ISO) shot.

Feel free to share some pics, PM me even, always keen to see other peoples work. Right now I'm about to call up to try and get a gig shooting QOTSA, wish me luck!

Bruce