I love you guys. Every last one of you goshdarnit! <sniff>

We love you Mel

[MRRiley]

Well, any printer with integrity knows about credits. To 'conveniently' or 'accidentally' remove credit information is the fault of the printer. If you know who the printer is, go directly to them with the "I wanted to talk to you directly about this 'omission' before involving my attorney". ....

I would not for one minute assume that this was the fault of the printer. They are going to print what they got, the whole of what they got, and nothing but what they got (to paraphase the witnesses oath). Thus it is the fault of the production company. Why they would drop Mel's credit is beyond me but I would never trust them again unless they took EVERY step I outlined above to correct the situation.

We've got your back Mel!!!

[khardur]

Amen to that, Mike.

Mel, to reiterate what has been said before, definitely the printer didn't drop those lines. That was most likely done before they were given the files to print from. (If the printer did "accidentally" miss something, it most definitely shouldn't have happened twice...)

It's really a shame all those postcards were printed and mailed to people's homes, how much free advertising that would have been for you. Hope things work out for you.

[little laker]

Personally I don't think that what Mike was suggesting about getting the cards re-printed is going to happen. If they weren't already sent that would be different., However, Printing the posters over is more than reasonable.

Plus I'd demand a 1/8 page, or bigger statement in the local paper.

If you deal with them again you'll probably want to inspect anything before they print it.

[MRRiley]

Personally I don't think that what Mike was suggesting about getting the cards re-printed is going to happen. If they weren't already sent that would be different.,

Very true, but the demand gives her room to back off a little and appear to compromise without really giving in on anything...

However, Printing the posters over is more than reasonable.

Very very true!!!

Plus I'd demand a 1/8 page, or bigger statement in the local paper.

EXCELLENT IDEA!!!!

If you deal with them again you'll probably want to inspect anything before they print it.

Another excellent point!

[straightshooter]

As others have said, it doesn't sound like the printer dropped the ball here. My wife worked in the office of a printing company for many years and one of the things she was tasked with was proof reading the layout and sending it to the customer for final (signed) approval before printing began. Sounds like someone did the other photog a serious favor by insuring your name wasn't mentioned. Tell them if you don't get credit, you are going to run around backstage on opening night yelling the true name of the "Scottish Play". LOL For those that don't know, it's bad luck to say the name Macbeth in a theater. Seriously however, you do need to demand credit on the website and in the Playbill with your name, studio name phone number, etc. And as was pointed out, start with demands you know won't be met but you will have room for compromise to get exactly what you want while being nice about it. "Look, I know reprinting would be a burden on the production so I tell you what. For your benefit, just give me credit on the website for my pictures and a 1/4 page add in the Playbill with mention of which photos were mine and we'll call it even." GET IT IN WRITING and notarized if possible!

CW

[PDL]

For what is is worth - here is my suggestion.

If you can not get some relief - talk to a lawyer or search the web for a cease and desist letter. Send it to the Theater owner - not the people who "lost the text". Copyright infringement is a very serious issue - it is only yours to lose.

There have been multiple threads about Copyright here - just search for them - many links, many good ideas. Also, go to the local newspaper/tv outlets or competing entertainment outlets and tell your story. If you get it into the news, then you will get results.

Oh - go to the Copyright site and learn how to officially register your image(s) and from now on embed a Copyright notice in the EXIF (actually IPTC) in ALL of your JPEG's. Easy to do - discussed multiple times here also - again - do a search.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

[George Lama]

A couple of points:

• My wife works for a printing outfit and there is no way they can follow-up with every customer to determine if they have copyrights for every image submitted. She will check when the image looks professional (studio shots graphics, artwork, and the like) and ask for a release, but for candids and "regular" looking shots, a customer can claim whatever they want.
• Typically printing houses will cover themselves against errors/omissions/pain in the behind customers by sending out proofs for customer approval before they print anything. Regardless of who dropped what from where, the customer approved the final output, whether by actually doing it or implicitly authorizing the printer to go ahead and print as is.
• There is no excuse for failing to give credit where due - I had to rail against a local newspaper publisher for illegally taking images from my website to use in an advertisement thanking me for my work in a fundraising calendar. As crazy as that may sound (why beat on them for making a thank you ad for me), they

a) failed to ask for permission - I would have given them higher res images than the crappy, low res, low dpi web versions I put up

b) disregarded copyright law by assuming (and the publisher told me this herself) that because they were on the web it was OK to use them without permission, and

c) didn't think it was important to verify that a model release was available for the children photos they used in their ad.

In that situation, all I asked the publisher for was a letter stating they took the images without my authorization (just in case the parents came after me for the use of their kids' prints by a third party without their express consent) and agreeing in writing to train their staff in the basics of copyright law.

When I didn't get what I thought was a simple, reasonable request, I contacted the parent publisher and spoke to the head cheese, making it clear that I was dismayed that a newspaper publisher would not only blatantly steal images from a website, but also show complete disregard of the importance of copyright law, because after all, how could someone be promoted to the position of newspaper publisher without knowing something so simple . Little did I know if was the guy's first day as the new head publisher and I was welcoming him to the job with a copyright violation issue He said he would speak to her the next day, Tuesday and within 3 days the letter arrived in the mail.

So, as others have said - do not back down! But you need to move fast!

The more you wait the more difficult it will become to remedy the situation. Find out who their boss or head agency is and go right for the top, kindly explaining that you're not looking for money, all you want is to be given credit for your work or that your work be removed from any and all promotional materials, whether already printed or not, and ask for it in writing.

Best of luck!

[mel]

I really don't want to be an ass over the thing. The person that asked me to do this is very aplogetic and promises a correction in the program. Whenever I've done work for her in the past, whether photography or costuming, she's always been sure to give me all the credit and more than I deserve.

What amazes me is the lack of proofing. If text dropped off during the file transfer why wasn't in corrected in the proofing. What I was given was a pfd file, not a paper printed copy. From the dialogue going back and forth between us, I've gotten a strong impression that the marketing people don't care much to market the theatre division of this particular establishment. My contact has had to fight tooth and nail to get any kind of publicity whatsoever. Their mentality is that the play won't have much draw so why bother advertising (and of course if the don't advertise there won't be much of a draw). Thus, if the ad materials didn't come out as they sent, they probably didn't care. Me making a big stink with them may just cause them to cease all marketing for this division period. Meanwhile I am going to figure out how to embed my copyright notice in the image files and anything I do for them for free with have something on the images themselves (my logo or something) identifying them as my work. If they want that off of there, they can pay me for it's removal.

So I'll get my correction and call it good. I honestly didn't think the pictures turned out all that great anyway. Maybe I don't want a credit after all

Thanks again guys for all the helpful suggestions and moral support (the latter most of all). I really honestly do appreciate it.

[Mike Cash]

I'd demand that the posters be redone and/or I got paid for this unauthorized use of my images.

Always remember in life that the only way anybody can crap on you is for you to hold still while they do it.

[mel]

I'd demand that the posters be redone and/or I got paid for this unauthorized use of my images.

Always remember in life that the only way anybody can crap on you is for you to hold still while they do it.

Lol. I'll remember that.

As an update, I just now, about five minutes ago, found out that I'm getting paid $200 for that hour's shooting. I had no idea. I guess she assumed I knew there would be payment. So now I'm all happy and feel bad for even saying anything. Well not completely bad because there still should be a credit. But I'm glad I was nice about it.

[MRRiley]

...there still should be a credit.

Yes, there should still be a credit and an apology in the program. They wouldn't put on a play without crediting the playwrite would they? Or not list the names of performers or crew...

Now, put that $200 away for your BIGMA.

[heliphoto]

It's good to see a silver (dollar) lining forming here, but if you need more backup, you could list their website and email addresses and we could run some sort of PFDOS (Pentax Forums Denial of Service) attack - inundate them with mail demanding that you get what you deserve and tell 'em we won't come see their dumb play if you don't get your due (and not mentioning that we live all over the globe and won't come see it anyway).

[mel]

It's good to see a silver (dollar) lining forming here, but if you need more backup, you could list their website and email addresses and we could run some sort of PFDOS (Pentax Forums Denial of Service) attack - inundate them with mail demanding that you get what you deserve and tell 'em we won't come see their dumb play if you don't get your due (and not mentioning that we live all over the globe and won't come see it anyway).

Uhhhhh Thanks!! But I think I'll go with the solution I obtained. But I'll keep that in mind for another time. Maybe. Or not.

I don't have enough paying clients as of yet to burn this bridge. They're making it sufficiently right to satisfy me (mainly the money part ) so I'm good. But hey! I appreciate the offer!

[Arpe]

Buy a marker pen - visit all the posters!