[pres589]

Is this a good time suggest a zoom lens with more reach, like a 50-135 or a 70-200?

[clackers]

Is this a good time suggest a zoom lens with more reach, like a 50-135 or a 70-200?

Yep, the pros who have contracts to do graduation photos aren't sitting miles away from the stage with a 70mm lens.

They have long lenses at their disposal and more importantly, they have access so they're up nice and close.

I agree with Ron ... you give up because you can't do better than them, take some shots of the venue instead, and of course, real effort into the portrait afterwards of the graduate holding the degree, etc.

[CarlJF]

Ron summarized it very well. It's not easy to get excellent quality pictures under the circumtances you were. There are so many constraints that it's a challenge to get anything better than snapshots. It's OK to get a few memories, but don't expect top quality pictures.

It would help a lot to be closer to the scene and use a wider lens so you can shoot at lower speed without motion blur from the subject, which also may help lowering the ISO a bit. But it's not always possible, and usually isn't at proms. Same thing with flash... To make it short, the options are very limited, as Ron pointed out.

A DSLR is more useful to take a few shots/portraits before/after the event, when you have more liberty with lighting, composition, timing...

But during the event, it's better (and more important!) to just enjoy the moment.

[twilhelm]

Great points Ronn and pres589!

I’d like to add, I think the “artificial light” issue was addressed in the last firmware for the K5.

[6BQ5]

Indoors is always hard to shoot. What may seem bright enough for our human eyes is terribly dark for digital camera sensors.

You probably reached about 80% - 85% capability of our K-5 and it's slightly dated, APS sized sensor at ISO 5000. Seeing there was no super fast motion you could have dropped your shutter speed down to 1/100 or even 1/60 if you had a monopod to help balance the camera. That could kick the ISO down to 2500 or so. You could also have shot wide open at f/2.4. The resulting image could be softer but cleaner. Pick your pain. Another way to get more light is to get a different lens but that starts getting expensive. Can you find a f/1.8 lens? Would you be OK with the wide open performance or would you end up stopping down to the same f/3.5?

A FF body could give you an extra stop or so of performance. Again, that's another pricey approach.

On the flip side, consider the destination of the image? If you are making small 4" x 6" print for an album or a small 1 to 2 megapixel image for online sharing then your images are perfectly OK. There's no need to pixel peep and see what you know is there (i.e. noise). Enjoy the image for the memory it brings backs when you look at it.

[rawr]

For this event, I would have used the event photographers classic workhorse lens pairing - a 70-200 f2.8 and a 28-75 f2.8. And kept a fast prime on stand-by - eg a 50/77/85 f1.4.

I'm also seeing a lot of motion blur throughout the photos too, which should mostly be avoidable.

FWIW, any low-light event benefits enormously from a camera that can better handle low-light. In Pentax, this could mean a full-frame body like the K-1, but now that we have the K-P doing as well as full-frame in low-light, the K-P is also great option for event shooting like this.

I think the “artificial light” issue was addressed in the last firmware for the K5.

Alas, no. It took modifications to the camera AF module (SAFOX IX+ in the K-5) to fix these problems with the K-5. The K-5 II had an upgraded AF module (SAFOX X), which fixed the problem with tungsten light, and also dramatically boosted the low-light AF sensitivity of the K-5 II to -3EV, as opposed to the -1 EV AF sensitivity of the K-5.

It was all about tungsten light causing focus errors like front-focus on the K-5. It would sometimes drive me crazy with the K-5. Newer cameras like the K-5II, K-30 and onwards never had the same AF problems of the K-5.

Manual focus would by-pass any AF problems, of course, on the K-5 or any other camera, but often when event shooting you have to rely on AF.

[willytwodog]

on the second one, exposure bios is -1.7.............per exif. Is that right?

[macman24054]

I have found from photographing bands that I get much better results using spot metering.

[magmotif]

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions and encouragement! After reading through the many replies, I see that I still have much to learn (and that I've also done a few things correctly)... but, that's one of the things that attracted me to this hobby so many years ago. I also realize that I was expecting too much. In the end, the event and the memories are more important than the photo. In the future, I'm going to bring my camera and just use it in situations that I'm comfortable with. But along the way, I'm going to keep these suggestions tucked away and continue working to improve my skills... with the gear I have

[Ron Boggs]

Most of us try to avoid admitting this, but just because we have some nice photo gear doesn't mean we are capable of pro level work in all styles of photography. When I started to get passably good at macro and other outdoor photography, people started asking/expecting me to do senior pics etc. Fact is, I tried a few senior pics for dear friends and it was quickly obvious that their mothers could do better work with a disposable film camera than I could do with several thousand dollars worth of gear. Turn me loose on a close-up of a flower bud and I'm the bomb. Have me work with your family on portrait work and it was clear that most 6-year-olds are better at portrait work through a phone than I am through an FA Limited lens. Basically, every member of this forum is held in high regard by their family who presumes that because we own pro quality gear we can do pro quality work of ANY type. FALSE! Each of us has a strength and a type of photography that we are good or even great at. Other styles of photography, we may have no skills whatsoever. That's me and portraits. I now tell people, "If your kid was an elk I could do front cover quality work. But your kid isn't an elk and my ability to take a photo of him is very limited!" Honestly, I've sold many dozens of publication quality images of people in action doing outdoor activities. It may count as portrait work, but it really isn't due to my poor skills at controlling lighting etc. We all need to "fess up" to our families that we aren't all portrait photogs.

[maw]

It seems that every time I attempt to photograph an indoor event with low lighting, I end up with disaster photos.

I have worked a lot in closed environments, churches, conference rooms, theaters for shows, the problem is not one DSLR issue.

1. Make an inspection on site as soon as possible if possible.

2. It's important to bring a passport color checker or an expodisk or a neutral card, the white balance is always better to do it before.

3. If using the monopod, be sure to turn off the SR.

4. Check in your equipment and ensure it's sleepy and doesn't have front/back focus.

5. recalls that artificial lights often send information that is not exactly correct, so the measurement system must also be appropriate for the subject.

6. If after all this you are unable to get a satisfactory picture, go to church and make an offering, the saints like it and in the meantime you can take time...

[Wild Mark]

My only additional comment to the many good ones above is check the focus of your lens (front/ back focus). My 70/2.4 is -10 adjustment ( yuck). It was that bad when I used it out of the box I thought it was a terrible lens.

[chrism888]

I second the thought, use a monopod or tripod if poss, improve your technique on handholding at low shutter speeds,


K1 1/8th Sec F4 1600 ISO


Chris Mills Photography | The Aviator Gallery


K5 1 sec braced against a wall F4.5 200 ISO


Chris Mills Photography | Cornwall

[BruceBanner]

Shooting from the bleachers...darn, without permission to shoot from a decent vantage point--big strike against you.
Shooting from long range with no long range telephoto--another big strike against you (see that dot in the upper left...that's my son).
Trying to crop out more than half the frame on high ISO indoor shooting--three strikes, you're out!

Might as well shoot a couple "whole room" shots with your phone and leave the DSLR home...no matter which brand. And I'm not being mean or cynical...

If this was a one-time shoot, and a type of shooting circumstance you don't aspire to master, I'd forget trying more of this type of image. Move on with your life and have fun with your camera! While I was having dozens of images published annually, I still paid for the "package photos" available at graduation type events. Those photogs are set up in the right places with appropriate lenses and lighting/color balance for the distances involved and you'll seldom "grab shot" your way to anything close to what they are selling. Buy the images!

If you intend to do graduation/school program type shoots as part of your regular routine, then follow all the suggestions others gave and start the learning curve. Figure by year 2 you'll be getting print-worthy images. By year 3-5 you may get a publication quality image or two. There is no more difficult type of photography than mixed lighting, indoor, no freedom to change perspective, live-action, grab shot, one prime lens from a distance, no light management (flash), photography. Anybody who pulls that off is doing very impressive work!

It can be done, but not without lots of effort. I take the lazy way out and shoot the types of circumstances I enjoy shooting and do passable work shooting. Event photog I am not! Are you sure "event photog" is something you aspire to? If so, get crackin'!

Hehe, I love Ron's way of words

But he's right, what you're attempting here is incredibly difficult photography. I like to believe I've had pretty decent success at concert/difficult lighting situations and I get the advantage from shooting right up front in the photo pit vs where you're shooting from.
When I get a media pass/offer the promoter or publication will often say that there's a strong case there isn't a photopit at x, y or z concert/gig, so you may be taking the shot from afar, make sure you have a long focal length lens etc otherwise don't even bother putting your hand up. I think your shots here illustrate why.

A few things I've learned;

Every concert or indoor lighting gig differs. Some are very animated (higher shutter speeds required) others less (can get better shots with lower shutter speeds and iso). On the day you have to quickly sus out what you need to have your shutter speeds at depending upon the performer or event.

I prefer spot metering, I couldn't really give a damn so much about what else is happening around the performer, I want their face properly exposed, and due to shooting wide open (F1.8-2.8 etc) I'm typically using center AF point (or one notch above), further than that and I start to get soft images as those lens perform sharpest at the centre (like most lenses do).

I prefer to set an EV of -1.3-2, I find I can recover shadows far easier, and this helps also keep the ISO under control on the day.

I tend to cap at 6400 ISO, in Av mode that might mean at times the shutter speed drops low, right down to 1/30th etc, that with a dfa100mm and a high energy concert might seem like a recipe for disaster, but on the day if you spam enough you will find keepers in amongst it. In all honesty a concert is the only situation where I find spamming necessary and helpful, somewhere along the way the light gets better on the subject (that you can't predict), shutter speed picks up because of it and now you have a nice sharp image among blurrier ones (with a better ISO).

Practice. I've had lots of it. I repeat again, this is probably the hardest kind of photography to pull off and on the day you have several things going against you, I might have struggled with all my know how and experience if I had your camera, lens and position on the day.

I second the thought, use a monopod or tripod if poss, improve your technique on handholding at low shutter speeds,


K1 1/8th Sec F4 1600 ISO


Chris Mills Photography | The Aviator Gallery


K5 1 sec braced against a wall F4.5 200 ISO


Chris Mills Photography | Cornwall

Yep, I've used a monopod, manual focus (sometimes with focus peaking on or off) for public speaking events. Let's me keep shutter speeds down to under 1/100th comfortably, framing can also be done a bit better. These public speaking pics here a few were done with a monopod; Community | Flickr

[Sholom]

You know, your two photos are really not bad given the limitations imposed (no real telephoto, mixed lighting, no choice of distance, etc.). Note that the 70 f/2.4 is perfectly sharp wide open, so, if your shot doesn't need depth of field, don't be afraid to shoot wide open. Practice hand holding at slow shutter speeds. My aging (but not yet shaky) hands can often get sharp enough shots with my K-5 at 1/8 sec with shake reduction on. If you want to use the K-5 above ISO 1600 you need to learn about noise reduction in post-processing. I use Lightrrom, Topaz Denoise, and Raw Therapee—they all can help but not necessarily do miracles. Do "chimp" your photos (examine them on the camera screen and look at the histograms as well) in tough situations like yours and don't be afraid to do exposure adjustments. The K-5 has incredible exposure dynamic range (way wider than film), but it is finite and can easily be exceeded in auditorium/stage settings—that's just the way photography is. And do check the fine focus on your 70mm. If adjusted properly, this lens should be sharp as a tack. I learned to do stuff like this on film a long time ago so digital to me is a great improvement, but that doesn't mean it is easy even on digital. Good luck!