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05-22-2018, 01:46 PM   #1
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Low light and action/nature photography in dark woods ... Flash use ?

I had to decide whether to put this title under "action" or "low light" since it does contain both and nature as well.

Scenario: birding in deep woods where the light is more than often not the greatest.

I very often have to shoot at ISO 1600/3200 (and 6400 for that matter) and even this sometimes is not quite enough.
I am wondering if a flash (I have the Pentax AF540FGZ , first generation) would be something to consider for this type of photography.
The camera is a K3 (sometimes a K5).

Could this be used and, if so, what about shooting at shutter speeds higher than 1/800 - 1/1000 s ?

I recently "found" a nice little sop in a nearby forest where there are wrens and those little guys prefer habitats that are really "low light" situations.

Any suggestion(s) ?

Thanks !

05-22-2018, 02:02 PM - 1 Like   #2
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It can be used. But you don't need to use a high shutter speed since the flash will be faster anyway. Just use sync speed (1/180) or slower and it will be more than enough to freeze anyway movement. You may also want to use some kind of wireless trigger to use the flash off camera. This will give more pleasing results than on camera and also be more practical for in the situation you described.
05-22-2018, 02:11 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
It can be used. But you don't need to use a high shutter speed since the flash will be faster anyway. Just use sync speed (1/180) or slower and it will be more than enough to freeze anyway movement. You may also want to use some kind of wireless trigger to use the flash off camera. This will give more pleasing results than on camera and also be more practical for in the situation you described.
Thanks for your reply.

I actually had tried the onboard flash (K3) quite a long time ago while trying to take a pic of a small bird (creeper) moving along a tree trunk. .....
All I got as a result was a blurry "something" (in place of the bird), so I thought this was impossible to do.
I assume I would get similar result(s) with the other flash?
That said, the flash (onboard) sure did not "freeze" the movement of the bird.

For the use of a trigger ... that wouldn't work for me: too much moving around (photographer and birds) !
05-22-2018, 02:18 PM - 1 Like   #4
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You might want look into a fresnel lens such as a Better Beamer. These things are designed to extend the distance of the flash. Typically about $50.

05-22-2018, 02:19 PM   #5
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Flash advantages:
* stops motion
* decent ISO if the creature is not to far away

Flash problems (w/ possible solutions)
* Not enough power to reach distant skittish creatures (a fresnel flash extender can help)
* Weird "bright-lit-bird-at-night" photos (choose shots where the bird is in front of a nearby backdrop)
* Very unnatural flat lighting (if you know the wren revisits a place, then set up the flash near the spot and fire it remotely from a distance)
05-22-2018, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #6
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A flash will 'freeze' the action only if the flash is fast, ie the lighting time is very short, and the action is close enough to be 'shined' by the flash light. In other words, the flash will work well if you can be close enough, within a 2-5 m with the K-3 onboard flash. That is my own experience

Another option is to combine a fast prime (f1.4 or faster) and a powerful torch. Not ideal for a bird but works for a wave.

How close can you get? This might be a key point to assess what might be feasible.....
05-22-2018, 02:31 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
You might want look into a fresnel lens such as a Better Beamer. These things are designed to extend the distance of the flash. Typically about $50.
QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Flash advantages:
* stops motion
* decent ISO if the creature is not to far away

Flash problems (w/ possible solutions)
* Not enough power to reach distant skittish creatures (a fresnel flash extender can help)
* Weird "bright-lit-bird-at-night" photos (choose shots where the bird is in front of a nearby backdrop)
* Very unnatural flat lighting (if you know the wren revisits a place, then set up the flash near the spot and fire it remotely from a distance)
Thanks for the replies.

The Fresnel lens could be an option indeed but the wrens/creepers are typically at least > 5 meters away, sometimes a bit more.
Of course, that would cause a problem as I think I am overreaching, even with the DA*300/4.

I prefer not to use a flash ever with wildlife photography but this would be the only situation where it could be of some use.

I suppose the "flash" technique would need a lot of practice though ... right?

---------- Post added 05-22-18 at 05:33 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by hcc Quote
A flash will 'freeze' the action only if the flash is fast, ie the lighting time is very short, and the action is close enough to be 'shined' by the flash light. In other words, the flash will work well if you can be close enough, within a 2-5 m with the K-3 onboard flash. That is my own experience

Another option is to combine a fast prime (f1.4 or faster) and a powerful torch. Not ideal for a bird but works for a wave.

How close can you get? This might be a key point to assess what might be feasible.....
How would you set your camera/flash unit ?
BTW, the lens I am using is a DA*300/4, so f4 is as fast as it can get.

05-22-2018, 02:35 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
That said, the flash (onboard) sure did not "freeze" the movement of the bird.


External flashes are much more powerful than the onboard flash. The onboard flash isn't that useful as a main light but it's okay to provide some fill-in or trigger other flashes. To freeze movement, the flash must be the main source of light (unless you,re looking for some blurred movement trail, but it doesn't seem to be the case here). The flash duration can be quite fast, usually between 1/1000 to 1/10 000 depending on power. To perfectly freeze movement, the caveat is that you should underexpose the ambient light by a good 3-4 stops. The flash then became the main source of light with few ambient light registering on the sensor. It's usually more practical to use the camera in manual mode to achieve this underexposure. You then adjust the flash to get the right exposure.

Said otherwise, it's like merging two pictures: one illuminated from ambient light and one with flash...
05-22-2018, 03:25 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
External flashes are much more powerful than the onboard flash. The onboard flash isn't that useful as a main light but it's okay to provide some fill-in or trigger other flashes. To freeze movement, the flash must be the main source of light (unless you,re looking for some blurred movement trail, but it doesn't seem to be the case here). The flash duration can be quite fast, usually between 1/1000 to 1/10 000 depending on power. To perfectly freeze movement, the caveat is that you should underexpose the ambient light by a good 3-4 stops. The flash then became the main source of light with few ambient light registering on the sensor. It's usually more practical to use the camera in manual mode to achieve this underexposure. You then adjust the flash to get the right exposure.

Said otherwise, it's like merging two pictures: one illuminated from ambient light and one with flash...
Got it !
I'll "assemble" the gear and post my settings so I have some feedback as to what I did is right/wrong.
05-22-2018, 03:35 PM   #10
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FWIW, here are some nice examples of wildlife pictures taken with flash.
A Guide to Using Flash with Wildlife
05-22-2018, 03:47 PM   #11
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These were taken a few years ago (2013) with a K200D & kit 50-200mm and a Sunpak 622 pro. Shutter release was R/C remote. Camera was set up about 15 ft from the feeder I was 30 ft away with the remote R/C. The Sunpak 622 is old but still very functional. When new they were rated 240 ft ISO 100 /135mm lens. I bought another used on ebay for about $60.00 for this summer . I will put it down closer to a dense willowed area in front to my deck on wide angle with a remote trigger The original one I will use on a tripod beside my K3 on a directional tripod with the zoom head set to 135mm. I have a clone to the Better Beamer so I'm hoping to get a range of 50 - 100 ft + without much problem. Unlike the Hummers which were stationary I will be able to "go to" the target.
The flash will stop the action , provide the light , and bring out the colours with the downside being flat lighting . I will find out very shortly if I catch some good ones.

Last edited by honey bo bo; 08-07-2018 at 04:31 AM.
05-22-2018, 04:25 PM   #12
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I quite often use a Better Beamer for bird photography, Jpzk.

Works very well, I can keep the ISO to 1600.

It doesn't seem to bother the birds, for whatever reason, while making sounds does.
05-22-2018, 07:05 PM - 1 Like   #13
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I have the Harbor Digital flash extender, the Pentax 540 flash. A couple things. Get the flash as far away from the axis of the lens to get rid of awful eyes. Use the flash speed to freeze movement; 1/4 is pretty quick. A few shots and one of the equipment. This is the K3. Exposure is trial an error; distance and light. Lots of things to go wrong; hot spots and over exposure for example. I got some decent shots on days and situations where it was impossible otherwise. Get used to changing the flash settings manually.

I haven't used it since getting the K1.







05-23-2018, 12:31 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
FWIW, here are some nice examples of wildlife pictures taken with flash.
A Guide to Using Flash with Wildlife
Interesting article and thanks for sharing.
It doesn't say if any/all/ some (of the) photos were taken handheld/tripod though.
I doubt very much if I am ever going to use a tripod where I go for the type of shots I want to be able to do.

---------- Post added 05-23-18 at 03:33 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by honey bo bo Quote
These were taken a few years ago (2013) with a K200D & kit 50-200mm and a Sunpak 622 pro. Shutter release was R/C remote. Camera was set up about 15 ft from the feeder I was 30 ft away with the remote R/C. The Sunpak 622 is old but still very functional. When new they were rated 240 ft ISO 100 /135mm lens. I bought another used on ebay for about $60.00 for this summer . I will put it down closer to a dense willowed area in front to my deck on wide angle with a remote trigger The original one I will use on a tripod beside my K3 on a directional tripod with the zoom head set to 135mm. I have a clone to the Better Beamer so I'm hoping to get a range of 50 - 100 ft + without much problem. Unlike the Hummers which were stationary I will be able to "go to" the target.
The flash will stop the action , provide the light , and bring out the colours with the downside being flat lighting . I will find out very shortly if I catch some good ones.
Nice series.
Did you use a tripod for all your shots?

---------- Post added 05-23-18 at 03:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I quite often use a Better Beamer for bird photography, Jpzk.

Works very well, I can keep the ISO to 1600.

It doesn't seem to bother the birds, for whatever reason, while making sounds does.
Thanks Clakers !
Is this "Better Beamer" heavy?

---------- Post added 05-23-18 at 03:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I have the Harbor Digital flash extender, the Pentax 540 flash. A couple things. Get the flash as far away from the axis of the lens to get rid of awful eyes. Use the flash speed to freeze movement; 1/4 is pretty quick. A few shots and one of the equipment. This is the K3. Exposure is trial an error; distance and light. Lots of things to go wrong; hot spots and over exposure for example. I got some decent shots on days and situations where it was impossible otherwise. Get used to changing the flash settings manually.

I haven't used it since getting the K1.
That's quite a set up you have here !
The images are just great and you happen to show the two birds I have been "chasing" ... the wren and the creeper !

Now, this kind of set up would be quite difficult to handle in the densely treed trails I am currently hiking. Of course, I could always manage but I would prefer going "handheld" and see what I can do.

You haven't used this set up since you got a K-1 ?? Is this a hint ?
05-23-2018, 02:08 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Did you use a tripod for all your shots?
Yes.
I've added this 4 way contraption since then which gives more adjustment possibilities and keeps the flash (Sunpak 622) a little further from the camera. The first is a 6 " fourway on a lighter Velbon Tripod the second is a 12 " fourway on a heavy video type Manfrotto. All have universal fittings and can be used on every Pod I have. Mono , window & tripods.

Last edited by honey bo bo; 08-07-2018 at 04:31 AM.
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