[Okami]

After seeing all the announcements by Sony, Canon, and Nikon it does seem at least for now, it would not make much business sense for Pentax to try to compete with this round. The only camera that would make sense is a K20D with upgraded AF and faster shutter (which i know has been rumored) or finally a true entry level FF that comes in around 2k. Also comes the issue of lack of FF lenses in the current production lineup.

The only way i could see this happening is if Samsung had a heavy hand into making it happen which it doesn't seem they are into the DSLR market enough yet that they would do that.

[nathancombs]

as much as i LOVE my Pentax cameras and will not switch this heard to say

Pentax is gitting its but kicked BIG time the 5D mark 2 is out and with the others that came out Pentax is behing the ball right now.

if all they have to put out is a K20D supper to compeat this will be bad VERY bad

and we have no info what they are doing

ps: they can leave out the video bull if they wish

thow if they like they can make a KICK but VIDEO camera i be happy to look in to getting it

[sewebster]

I have no idea if Pentax will release anything good at photokina, but to me, it makes sense to save the announcement for the actual announcement at the tradeshow! Rather than "leak" everything early and have nothing new to say at the show itself. Complain after, not before

[nathancombs]

not companning just would like Pentax to DO some thing LOL and not take baby steps

sort of what Mcan did with Palan LOL

[Frank Fletcher]

This whole post is my opinion only ... so take it with a grain of salt.


I agree with Nathan that if all they can come up with is a K20D super - it's bad for the public perception of Pentax.

Public perception is so important for marketting and Pentax is getting clobbered in this department at the moment. They were late to the digital game and have been playing catch-up ever since. Admittedly, the K10 was definitely a push in the right direction. And the K20 is a very competent camera.

Unfortunately, most consumers in the American market judge the quality of a brand by the top-end of that brand. Logically, this makes a kind of backwards sense - if the Pros choose to use xyz brand, there must be a reason. Also it makes sense if you look at it from an R&D angle. Lastly, we American consumers are often swayed by whatever is "cutting edge" at the time. (You should have seen the lines at the apple stores for the new iPhones, here in the Bay Area!)

Pentax has played a conservative hand at every generation, except maybe the K10d. Nikon was in a similar position a few years ago. They had lost major ground to Canon. Public perception of Nikon had suffered. They had no feasible contender for the high end. It took a full mangement shakeup for them to start pumping $$$ into R&D - now they are reaping the benefit. Canon is no longer the clear cut market leader.

Admittedly, Pentax may be a bit small to start taking the risks (and associated benefits!) that Nikon took to create the current market environment. OTOH, Samsung isn't! I hope they step in and move us along. The Asian and European market may be different but, without the public perception, especially in the high end, I think Pentax will keep losing ground to Sony/Canon/Nikon.


What I personally love about Pentax is that they manage to put together so many features and get it (mostly) right. The most important feature on my camera is the ergonomics. I can have the camera in full manual and operate pretty much with my eyes closed, and get a very good exposure, using the right aperture and the right shutter speed. (Although the composition would probably be cr@p! . I haven't found another camera that lets me do this yet. I played around with a 40D the other day. I don't think I could be as comfortable with that camera if you had given me 6mo to play with it.

Just about every other factor is already accounted for in the other brands. Sure people will talk about the lenses... IMO, every brand out there has great lenses for their system. In fact, in terms of lens quality, Olympus is the new Pentax (barring specialty/specialization companies like voigtlander and zeiss). Pentax lens quality is very good - but no longer amazing in todays market.

While I'm on a roll here (haha), let me say something about full-frame. To me, there is no doubt that the larger sensors have a huge quality advantage. And I do mean huge. Seeing what comes out of an H3D or even better from a 4X5 or even 8X10 film camera - makes my K10D look fuzzy!! This is true even if you downsample the large-frame images to a 4x6 print!!! I notice a difference and it's huge to me.

On the other hand, I can't afford anything larger than what I have. So thank you Pentax!!!

This whole post is my opinion only ... so take it with a grain of salt.

I guess most of us post their own opinions so no problem!

I agree with Nathan that if all they can come up with is a K20D super - it's bad for the public perception of Pentax.

A K20D Super done right (new AF, at least 4,5 fps, hi res 3" LCD, maybe movie mode) and with the correct price will be a very good thing for Pentax IMO. Even more so if they'll keep the K20D at today's price or lower. Let me explain a bit. If they'll do that then Pentax will actually bracket all competition models up to 50D and D300. In fact they'll have 4 models on the shelf or in a online shop thus a much better position than today's 2 model range.

Public perception is so important for marketting and Pentax is getting clobbered in this department at the moment. They were late to the digital game and have been playing catch-up ever since. Admittedly, the K10 was definitely a push in the right direction. And the K20 is a very competent camera.

Pentax marketing was poor to be honnest from the day one. Let's hope that a company like Hoya will improve this asap.

Unfortunately, most consumers in the American market judge the quality of a brand by the top-end of that brand. Logically, this makes a kind of backwards sense - if the Pros choose to use xyz brand, there must be a reason. Also it makes sense if you look at it from an R&D angle. Lastly, we American consumers are often swayed by whatever is "cutting edge" at the time. (You should have seen the lines at the apple stores for the new iPhones, here in the Bay Area!)

I made this case in other threads that Pentax is much less reliant on the US market than N or C. Pentax has a global strategy that implies almost equal prices across all markets, unlike C, N and S that favor the US market a lot. Hence IMO it's better for Pentax to sell in Europe at the highest possible price rather than in the US at dumping prices hoping for some share market gain. At least atm I think this is the right strategy!

Pentax has played a conservative hand at every generation, except maybe the K10d. Nikon was in a similar position a few years ago. They had lost major ground to Canon. Public perception of Nikon had suffered. They had no feasible contender for the high end. It took a full mangement shakeup for them to start pumping $$$ into R&D - now they are reaping the benefit. Canon is no longer the clear cut market leader.

Well I guess we'll see soon what Hoya plans but make no mistake they have a lot more money than the old Pentax. The only real question is how much are they ready to invest and for what final purpose (profit, improve market share, a cozy niche market)?

Admittedly, Pentax may be a bit small to start taking the risks (and associated benefits!) that Nikon took to create the current market environment. OTOH, Samsung isn't! I hope they step in and move us along. The Asian and European market may be different but, without the public perception, especially in the high end, I think Pentax will keep losing ground to Sony/Canon/Nikon.

Soon I think the global economy will stagnate a bit so many new buyers will reach for the best price/performance+quality ratio regardless of the brand. Also more and more entry levels will be sold probably. In couple of months Pentax will be in a strong position with 2 great cameras at the lower end of the range.

What I personally love about Pentax is that they manage to put together so many features and get it (mostly) right. The most important feature on my camera is the ergonomics. I can have the camera in full manual and operate pretty much with my eyes closed, and get a very good exposure, using the right aperture and the right shutter speed. (Although the composition would probably be cr@p! . I haven't found another camera that lets me do this yet. I played around with a 40D the other day. I don't think I could be as comfortable with that camera if you had given me 6mo to play with it.

People sometimes are quick to forget all the "pluses" of a Pentax and they are a few compared to ANY camera in their price range. As of today I don't think there are any other under 1K cameras weather sealed yet we have a 500 USD body like that.

Just about every other factor is already accounted for in the other brands. Sure people will talk about the lenses... IMO, every brand out there has great lenses for their system. In fact, in terms of lens quality, Olympus is the new Pentax (barring specialty/specialization companies like voigtlander and zeiss). Pentax lens quality is very good - but no longer amazing in todays market.

While I'm on a roll here (haha), let me say something about full-frame. To me, there is no doubt that the larger sensors have a huge quality advantage. And I do mean huge. Seeing what comes out of an H3D or even better from a 4X5 or even 8X10 film camera - makes my K10D look fuzzy!! This is true even if you downsample the large-frame images to a 4x6 print!!! I notice a difference and it's huge to me.

I guess one day the 645D will come hopefully in an affordable package (for its class of course).

On the other hand, I can't afford anything larger than what I have. So thank you Pentax!!!

_____
Radu

[kalpaha]

After seeing all the announcements by Sony, Canon, and Nikon it does seem at least for now, it would not make much business sense for Pentax to try to compete with this round. The only camera that would make sense is a K20D with upgraded AF and faster shutter (which i know has been rumored) or finally a true entry level FF that comes in around 2k.

I guess everyone agrees that Pentax has been a bit late to the DSLR game. In a way that is a good thing; they have a clear view of the developments and what they need to compete with. In my opinion, it would not be wise for Pentax to now rush into front line in the affordable FF war. In fact, if it weren't for the statement from Ben, I would be willing to bet against Pentax FF this year.

Pentax would be a lot wiser to concentrate on the other important components of the camera, like the shutter, image processor and AF that are lagging in comparison to the competition. Creating an FF camera that is not WAY cheaper than the competition would just make them an also-ran, just to please those insecure about their camera brand (I can understand being insecure about your manhood, but camera brand?!?!). These people would probably not afford to buy the thing in any case. But it sure would make them feel better.

Focusing on a cheap entry level camera and on improvements to make K20D successor competitive alongside D300 and 50D will put Pentax into a good position in the markets that for now form vast majority of DSLR sales. Plus there is no sense in creating a K20D with a full frame sensor, if it means that the processing chip cannot process the data at more than 2FPS.

Also comes the issue of lack of FF lenses in the current production lineup.

I wrote a rebuttal for this claim for a finnish forum: Pentax Full Frame: Myth of no FF lenses

By my count there are 7 FF capable lenses in production. In addition to that, the new DA* 200mm and 300mm are probably FF capable, and tests (posted on this site) show that the DA 40mm Ltd and DA 70mm Ltd could be used on FF as well. If Pentax was really making a push for FF then I'm sure they could probably also resurrect some FA* lenses.

And this is not taking into account the 3rd party options.

The only way i could see this happening is if Samsung had a heavy hand into making it happen which it doesn't seem they are into the DSLR market enough yet that they would do that.

There would have to have been a major push in a lot of fronts to make Pentax FF camera a reality. I mean, K20D cannot push the 14.6Mpix at full 3fps, so how would it handle, say 24Mpix of data? Of course, a K20D FF with 14.6Mpix at ~3fps and below $2000 would probably sell nicely too. I don't see this happening, either. I would love to be wrong with my guesses :-)

[Blue]

This thread should be in the Rumors forum with all the other speculative threads.

[cwood]

By my count there are 7 FF capable lenses in production. In addition to that, the new DA* 200mm and 300mm are probably FF capable, and tests (posted on this site) show that the DA 40mm Ltd and DA 70mm Ltd could be used on FF as well. If Pentax was really making a push for FF then I'm sure they could probably also resurrect some FA* lenses.

you forgot the 300mm f2.8 and 600mm f4. these lenses are still being produced in low numbers

[thePiRaTE!!]

The 5D and D700 both make me salivate. But still, the amount of 3rd party and vintage glass out there for K-mount and having in-body SR to maximize use of it always reminds me (at least for me) that whatever Pentax DSLR I happen to be using is a sweet spot for me over the Canikons.

Canon undoubtedly plough out a lot of new gear, covering many of the bases people cry out for but Pentax cautiously release quality bodies for a low price that sum up the market nicely, in time. I'd really like a Pentax/Samsung 5D/D700, but we might wait a year for that. Someday if Samsung decide to really go hammer and tongs with Sony for #3, we might see an arms race of body releases, but I don't yet see signs of that this year.

It seems Pentax might have held back the DA*55 and 60-250 to put more in the bag for Photokina release announcements and perhaps the entry body that others speak of, who really knows at this point, I'm not overly concerned. I've learned in my first year on-board Pentax that it isn't the technology express train, its a cost concious, scenic route tour. Just sit back from the monitor and enjoy what you have, leave the gear lust to those who are willing to pay out the nose for the bleeding edge today - we'll get something better for less next year.

[nathancombs]

i have been doing some reading and theirs some roamers of a Nikon digital MF camera i think that would be a bit of a slap in the face to Pentax IF that came into being

yep Pentax has a proto tipe of the 645D sitting there for a couple of YEARS

[Spex]

I just don't understand all that hype about FF. Who actually needs it except pro photographers? This is not another format war, it's more like having professional equipment affordable for normal users. Even so, it's not like FF cameras are cheap, hell no! C'mon, 3000$ is a lot of money for something that you're buying because it's "must have", rather then you'll notice any difference in your photos. Ok, you'll notice how your wallet is thinner than ever
And also it's not that FF is SO MUCH better than APS-C. What are advantages? Lower noise and wider angle? So? K20D is already great at high ISO, so are 50D, D300, α700. You need ISO 12800? When, three times a year?
Wide angle? Sigma 10-20, rings any bell? That would be 15mm on FF. Nikon has 13 mm, Canon has 14 mm primes. Both with CRAZY price (I know they are top quality, but...) Do you really wanna spend +5000$ just to go 1 or 2 mm wider? So wide that you must lean forward to avoid your feet getting in pic?
And then, to get reach of DA* 300... Now you need 450 mm lens. Oh, I forgot to mention that you need IS version to be equivalent... And the price is... errr... 6k$ for Canon, 8k$ for Nikon. Thats 11-13k$. For One body and two lenses.
Yes, I really MUST HAVE FF!!! I'm not professional but I MUST have it!!! It's so cool!!!

Those humans... silly species