[GUB]

Time to have a bit of a test. My question still is electronic shutter vs Mechanical shutter.
I set up on a tripod for constancy but with a monopod in mind.
My tripod is a medium weight one and I left the quick attach a little loose so the camera could flail around a little on its own hopefully to exaggerate shutter shake.
The top 2 rows are with the shutter set to 12 second delay and SR off by default.
The bottom 2 rows I fired the shutter as usual with my finger as you would with a monopod.
So SR was on here.
I feel the results vindicate the view that shutter shake is limited to the 1/60 to 1/200 area.
The stand out shot though has to be the hand fired 1/50 mechanical shutter SR=on. The fact that it is better than the 1/100 next door is a good example of SR being a little hit or miss.
My own conclusion here is that a little trust (and hope) in SR outweighs going overboard with Iso.
So the biggest pity I feel with my Falcon shot is that I had the camera on Electronic Shutter.
The Magnolia flower stamen crops are 300 pixels crops from the centre of the image. I had to downsize about 50% to upload the test to here. I used the 400-600 mirror @600mm on the K-1. I did not change focus through the test. Images saved as jpg camera default.

Attached Images

   

[Gimbal]

Was this with live view on or off? With live view off you will also have mirror slap, not only shutter shake.

[Qman]

It's great that you've done the test.
There are a couple of additional things to consider. First, SR isn't intended for tripods, even slightly wobbly ones. So I'm not surprised that you got some inconsistent results. Second, if you typically will use the monopod for these shots then perhaps you'd benefit from repeating the test with a monopod (electronic, mechanical, mechanical + SR) . Third, since birds can move, relying on slow shutter speeds might get you a sharp background with a blurry bird. Better to use something like 1/500 or faster, if possible.

[GUB]

Was this with live view on or off? With live view off you will also have mirror slap, not only shutter shake.

Live view on - the only way to focus a long lens like this.

[GUB]

Trouble with using a mono-pod for the test is to get consistent focus and not bumping the focus while you are handling it.. The Dof calculator for this situation says dof of 140mm for FF 600mm 8 metrs f12 - personally I more than halve the results from the old standard coc. - so you are thinking a dof here of say 50mm. which means it is very easy to sway in or out of it with a mono-pod.
Good point about subject movement. I was thinking the optimum with the above lighting was third row down 1/400 sec Iso 800. Trouble is the Falcon was at least 4 stops dimmer so I suspect optimum would be a stop slower and a couple of stops extra on Iso.

[clackers]

Trouble with using a mono-pod for the test is to get consistent focus and not bumping the focus while you are handling it..

.....

[GUB]

.....

.......?

[beakhammer]

Higher shutter speeds help a lot, but electronic shutter is not always better. When the subject moves I find that a mechanical shutter is best.

[GUB]

Higher shutter speeds help a lot, but electronic shutter is not always better. When the subject moves I find that a mechanical shutter is best.

After doing that test, for me, electronic shutter is now only for tripod work where SR is off.

[beakhammer]

After doing that test, for me, electronic shutter is now only for tripod work where SR is off.

makes sense.

[Lmcfarrin]

As of current technology manual shutter produces better resolved images.

[kiwi_jono]

Thanks for posting - this is an interesting discussion. At the moment I tend to leave ES on in LV as most often I change to LV when shutter range is in 1/60 - 1/200 with the ISO / f stop I want. But I now have to agree if the shutter speed is outside of this range it would be best to leave ES off.

[JensE]

Even at 1/60 - 1/200 second range, the electronic shutter needs a long time for the exposure. The electronic equivalent of the mechanical shutter 'slit' travels across the image with the readout speed of the sensor, which does less than 5 frames per second, so it needs on the order of 200ms. The mechanical slit approximately travels at the flash sync speed of 1/200 seconds = 5ms. So for anything involving motion fast enough to be stretched at 1/5 seconds between top and bottom, the mechanical shutter would be the preferred. For shots with SR, shutter shock is barely detectable with my camera. Without SR, it is, but still yielding an effective resolution of about half the pixel count in the worst case - far from ruining most shots.

[Lmcfarrin]

My preferred reasons for ES over MS is to;

Minimize wear and tear on the mechanical shutter.

Shoot silently.

If I need maximum resolution I use MS.

[Greg1956]

Considering all the talk about "SR on" on a tripod distorting your photos, there really isn't a lot of difference in the images even at that level.

Impressive camera and lens!!!

Greg