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12-05-2018, 11:28 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
At least you had a high contrast focal point.....
It helped some but I was still using a manual focus lens. Before the match started I would get into position and fiddle around with things to get them dialed in before the kids got to the table. It does appear that you had about 2 stops more light that I did and it was more uniform which would have been nice. With bouncy elementary school kids you really have to keep the shutter speed high, especially when there is more than one.

Next month at sectionals I will know what to expect as it is at the same school and will be bringing some fast primes. I just need to get a lens in the 70-85mm range to be able to cover the same set of shots. I guess it might be time to get that 77mm limited.

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Gotta love FIRST Robotics!
It is good for the kids. My kids' school (grades K - 5) only does it in 5th grade but FLL is open to grades 4 - 8 so I was considering seeing if there was enough interest in the cub scout pack at the 4th grade level for a FLL team for next year, or FLL Jr. team for the younger scouts (grades K - 3)
QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I don't do a lot of post processing on the images because they're a courtesy for the various teams. They're on the State FIRST Flickr account unlocked so they can download them at full size and do with them as they wish.
I got voluntold by the wife into photographing the school's team at the competition. I gave the school a few DVDs filled with the full res 16bit tiffs with only the really bad ones culled. For post processing I really only put a little saturation upped the luminance noise reduction (I think I used a value somewhere between 25 and 30) and used LMMSE for demosaicing all in RawTherapee. I probably could have upped the luminance noise reduction some more and pulled up the shadows on the shots from the gym but didn't want to eat a day editing a pile of pictures for which most will never be looked at again.

12-05-2018, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by MossyRocks Quote
It helped some but I was still using a manual focus lens. Before the match started I would get into position and fiddle around with things to get them dialed in before the kids got to the table. It does appear that you had about 2 stops more light that I did and it was more uniform which would have been nice. With bouncy elementary school kids you really have to keep the shutter speed high, especially when there is more than one.

Next month at sectionals I will know what to expect as it is at the same school and will be bringing some fast primes. I just need to get a lens in the 70-85mm range to be able to cover the same set of shots. I guess it might be time to get that 77mm limited.


It is good for the kids. My kids' school (grades K - 5) only does it in 5th grade but FLL is open to grades 4 - 8 so I was considering seeing if there was enough interest in the cub scout pack at the 4th grade level for a FLL team for next year, or FLL Jr. team for the younger scouts (grades K - 3)

I got voluntold by the wife into photographing the school's team at the competition. I gave the school a few DVDs filled with the full res 16bit tiffs with only the really bad ones culled. For post processing I really only put a little saturation upped the luminance noise reduction (I think I used a value somewhere between 25 and 30) and used LMMSE for demosaicing all in RawTherapee. I probably could have upped the luminance noise reduction some more and pulled up the shadows on the shots from the gym but didn't want to eat a day editing a pile of pictures for which most will never be looked at again.
Remember that FTC starts at 12 (they say 7th but you can have 6th graders on the team). I've been working with the State Committee for the past few years and its great to see the kids advance.
12-05-2018, 02:26 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Remember that FTC starts at 12 (they say 7th but you can have 6th graders on the team). I've been working with the State Committee for the past few years and its great to see the kids advance.
This was my first go around and I am just learning about it. Until I went to the regional competition I thought it was just something offered through the state and schools only. I didn't find out that there were private teams until I was actually there on Saturday. So now I am gathering info so I can speak to possibly having one or more FLL Jr. and/or FLL teams in the cub scout pack. Let the school have a their two 5th grade teams and focus on the younger ones. Half of the kids in my oldest's den (5th graders) are already on the school's two teams and the ones who aren't aren't interested in it.

I figure it would be an opportunity to expose the kids to something they may not otherwise get to do and to try something new. I can imagine the growth in ability from one year to the next is impressive. I see that with the scouts too and think that offering this as an option for them to do would be another way to start building skills and offer that growth.
12-05-2018, 03:05 PM   #19
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Just been playing with focal lengths. The pub will not be large so I may be too close for a 50mm but I am still taking it. However I am also taking a really sharp 28mm f2.8. Trouble is I lose a stop of light so I think I may have to take some test shots first. I am also going to use catch in focus which, to date, I have never used. I am also thinking of using TAv. Does anyone know if TAv works with M42 lenses?

12-05-2018, 03:13 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by MossyRocks Quote
This was my first go around and I am just learning about it. Until I went to the regional competition I thought it was just something offered through the state and schools only. I didn't find out that there were private teams until I was actually there on Saturday. So now I am gathering info so I can speak to possibly having one or more FLL Jr. and/or FLL teams in the cub scout pack. Let the school have a their two 5th grade teams and focus on the younger ones. Half of the kids in my oldest's den (5th graders) are already on the school's two teams and the ones who aren't aren't interested in it.

I figure it would be an opportunity to expose the kids to something they may not otherwise get to do and to try something new. I can imagine the growth in ability from one year to the next is impressive. I see that with the scouts too and think that offering this as an option for them to do would be another way to start building skills and offer that growth.
My daughter led out FTC team to win Inspire at State (the highest award in FTC - essentially like winning the State Championship in any sport) when she was in 8th grade. Our little middle school FTC team beat every single STEM High School in our state with four 7th & 8th graders. She's in HS now and a leader on that team and the first girl to letter in robotics ever at the school. I could go on and on about things she's learned both technical and management from FIRST robotics but can't say enough about the opportunities it provides for kids to experience real world activities that lead to college scholarships, leadership, and technical skills.
12-05-2018, 04:05 PM - 2 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
Just been playing with focal lengths. The pub will not be large so I may be too close for a 50mm but I am still taking it. However I am also taking a really sharp 28mm f2.8. Trouble is I lose a stop of light so I think I may have to take some test shots first. I am also going to use catch in focus which, to date, I have never used. I am also thinking of using TAv. Does anyone know if TAv works with M42 lenses?
Just manual mode, Cerebum.

I'm a little worried for you, going on about lenses and so on. I think the very best thing you can do is go to the venue on an evening before your son plays and shoot whoever's playing that night. Experiment, and do post mortems afterwards on your computer examining the files. Put 'em up here for C&C!

You don't want to be learning during the big event itself.
12-05-2018, 04:13 PM - 2 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote

Gotta love FIRST Robotics!

I was involved in FIRST when my son was still in HS, incredibly fun time, and I was always impressed by the teams' creativity and determination, and costumes.

---------- Post added 12-05-18 at 18:16 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MossyRocks Quote
I I guess it might be time to get that 77mm limited.


.
Do it for the kids!
12-06-2018, 12:55 AM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Just manual mode, Cerebum.

I'm a little worried for you, going on about lenses and so on. I think the very best thing you can do is go to the venue on an evening before your son plays and shoot whoever's playing that night. Experiment, and do post mortems afterwards on your computer examining the files. Put 'em up here for C&C!

You don't want to be learning during the big event itself.
Good advice sadly not possible as he is 200 miles away. I have just decided which lens to take and it is the plastic fantastic 35mm f2.4. I LOVE using MF lenses but the 35 is good and quite quick and I have the option of AF-c. Also it means there is slighty less for mr brain to process I am going to do some sharpness tests today but I am sure it will be great I may not get wquite the same buzz as I would from the pancolor but hey. Maybe next time

12-06-2018, 07:05 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
Good advice sadly not possible as he is 200 miles away. I have just decided which lens to take and it is the plastic fantastic 35mm f2.4. I LOVE using MF lenses but the 35 is good and quite quick and I have the option of AF-c. Also it means there is slighty less for mr brain to process I am going to do some sharpness tests today but I am sure it will be great I may not get wquite the same buzz as I would from the pancolor but hey. Maybe next time
I hope you and your son have a great time!

(I also hope you bring the 28, the 50, and maybe something longer with you because you may find that your closer to or further from the stage than you expected. It would be a shame to travel 200 miles only to realize that the right lens for the job is at home. Also, you may like the ability to pop-on a wider lens to get shots of the venue and whole band or pop-on a longer lens to zoom in on your son.)
12-06-2018, 07:38 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgski Quote
Do it for the kids!
I'll let my wife know.
12-06-2018, 08:18 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
I hope you and your son have a great time!

(I also hope you bring the 28, the 50, and maybe something longer with you because you may find that your closer to or further from the stage than you expected. It would be a shame to travel 200 miles only to realize that the right lens for the job is at home. Also, you may like the ability to pop-on a wider lens to get shots of the venue and whole band or pop-on a longer lens to zoom in on your son.)
Wider there's a thought I have my 21mm limited, ooooh, ooooh, ooooh, 10-17 fish eye

I am going to need a bigger bag
12-10-2018, 01:00 AM - 2 Likes   #27
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OK. I got to the bar and the lighting was awful. No spotlights on the band just ambient and background light. Thank god I took my plastic 35mm f2.4 overall it was disappointing but I got some I liked ........ Well, didn't hate! Very grainy though, I was up at iso3200 at f2.4 just so I could shoot at 1/100 & 1/160





12-10-2018, 09:23 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
OK. I got to the bar and the lighting was awful. No spotlights on the band just ambient and background light. Thank god I took my plastic 35mm f2.4 overall it was disappointing but I got some I liked ........ Well, didn't hate! Very grainy though, I was up at iso3200 at f2.4 just so I could shoot at 1/100 & 1/160
Yeah, this is why you need to scout out a venue beforehand.

Without lighting, you could use an f1.8 lens for all your shots to try to keep the ISO to 1600. You may still have had to do too much noise reduction, and murder the colours so much you had to do B&W conversion anyway.

Or you could leverage the fact it's your son, and instead try to really nail half a dozen shots with flash - the band'd tolerate you more than a nobody in the pub.
12-11-2018, 04:19 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yeah, this is why you need to scout out a venue beforehand.

Without lighting, you could use an f1.8 lens for all your shots to try to keep the ISO to 1600. You may still have had to do too much noise reduction, and murder the colours so much you had to do B&W conversion anyway.

Or you could leverage the fact it's your son, and instead try to really nail half a dozen shots with flash - the band'd tolerate you more than a nobody in the pub.
Next time thing is, we have a naturally critical eye whereas my son and his band mates think they’re great. Trouble is I was hoping to get a local society competition entry out of this lot! No chance there, they would slaughter em all
12-11-2018, 05:01 PM - 3 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
Next time thing is, we have a naturally critical eye whereas my son and his band mates think they’re great. Trouble is I was hoping to get a local society competition entry out of this lot! No chance there, they would slaughter em all
Nice pics! The stage lighting in some bars is atrocious -- the bar just clears a few tables out of the least popular corner of the bar and lets the band do their thing.

The solution: become a roadie for your son's band! That way you can take more pictures in better-lit venues.
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