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02-08-2019, 08:00 AM   #16
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Pick the subject. Isn't that the first step of composition?

Pick the lens: This depends on the subject size and distance, of course. But it also depends on the intended size of the subject within the frame such as tightly cropping the subject to exclude the environment (e.g., just the face of a weathered stone lion sculpture) or making the subject tiny within a large environmental backdrop (e.g., a rock climber on a cliff face).

Pick the view point & framing: Decide if I want to be left/center/right and higher/centered/lower than the subject if that's possible. This includes thinking about the plane of focus if it's a macro or wide-aperture shot as well as the perspective distortions of UWA shots. Looking down at something has a totally different feel than looking up at it (three-cheers for the K-1's tilty-screen!). The left-right choice often interacts with the attractiveness of background/foreground elements on either side of object, lighting, and which way the subject is "looking." I tend to like compositions in which the subject is looking across the frame.

Inspect the foreground & background: look for distractions (telephone poles coming out the subject's head), look at the layering of color and texture: reposition & reframe as needed.

Inspect the frame edges: Although I know what the whole scene looks like, the viewer doesn't. The material at the frame's edges creates the viewer's sense of those unseen surroundings and their impression of the whole image. A stand of trees can be an image of a majestic forest if the frame ends before the trees do or those same trees can look isolated by including the beginnings of the grassland on both sides of the frame. Often this step is about avoiding clipping a bit of the subject accidentally. Frame edges also play a big role in diagonal compositions and balancing how things cut across the frame. The tunnel vision of an OVF (like that of a waist-level finder or the under-cloth view of an LF camera) helps me see the image the way the viewer will and compose for the viewer.

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Note: I rarely use a tripod now because I like to play with small positional changes of the camera to micro-manage the relationships between foreground, subject(s), and background. Moving a tripod over 2 inches sucks! I did go through a tripod phase about 20 years ago and found it extremely valuable to slowing down. Using a tripod taught me to take time to see everything else in the frame (not just the subject) and to inspect the frame edges and what's happening with them.

02-08-2019, 08:24 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Pick the subject. Isn't that the first step of composition?
Well... not always, for me at least. I have realized that the background is also very important and here I'm especially referring to street shots, but also model photography for instance. I always try to have something interesting happening in the background, even if the background is blurred. So one thing that I sometimes do is cruise the city looking for an interesting spot (that maybe be due to light, shadows or some other things) and then just camp there and wait for an interesting subject to pass by. Takes a lot of patience but it works. I've read about this technique on this forum... this is why I love it so much

Last edited by Hattifnatt; 02-08-2019 at 08:38 AM.
02-08-2019, 08:47 AM   #18
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I find it really depends on the day, the shoot, etc. Sometimes, if I am out with a Prime just concentrating on photography, all the aforementioned stuff comes to play (thirds, background, DOF, subject focus), other times, at the other end of the scale, if I am on a walk with others I do not want to hold up, it is more of a furious 1-2-3. 1) Eye sees scene that might be camera-worthy 2) try to figure out how the camera can "see" the same thing 3) snap the shot and hope that PP can help salvage a shot.
02-08-2019, 09:17 AM   #19
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For me, when it looks right, it is right. I don’t pay attention to composition past that. I’ve paid a lot of attention in the past to the nuts and bolts of photography, to the point I don’t give the technical aspects much more than a passing thought any more, but composition is one of those things that has come very easily to me.

02-08-2019, 09:21 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hattifnatt Quote
Well... not always, for me at least. I have realized that the background is also very important and here I'm especially referring to street shots, but also model photography for instance. I always try to have something interesting happening in the background, even if the background is blurred. So one thing that I sometimes do is cruise the city looking for an interesting spot (that maybe be due to light, shadows or some other things) and then just camp there and wait for an interesting subject to pass by. Takes a lot of patience but it works. I've read about this technique on this forum... this is why I love it so much
Excellent point!

The same strategy of setting up and waiting occurs in landscape photography in which one might pick the background mountains, mid-ground lake, and foreground flowers but them wait for the sun & cloud, or sunset/sunrise to create the lighting and sky or wait for passing creatures to add there elements to the whole scene. In fact, the "best" landscapes often entail the photographer revisiting the same location multiple times until they get the best combination of lighting, sky, foliage, creatures, etc.

Too often we speak of "The Subject" the way a studio portrait maker might. But a great many street and landscape images really have many sub-subjects composed together. I know some people say a photograph must have a focal subject but I've always loved extremely detailed images (e.g., the drawings of David Macaulay - Wikipedia) that invite exploration of the many subjects in the scene more so than focus on a single subject.
02-08-2019, 09:31 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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Learn the rules. Practice them. Get good at them.
Then ignore them. Stop using them. Come up with your own aesthetic.
02-08-2019, 09:50 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
For me, when it looks right, it is right. I don’t pay attention to composition past that. I’ve paid a lot of attention in the past to the nuts and bolts of photography, to the point I don’t give the technical aspects much more than a passing thought any more, but composition is one of those things that has come very easily to me.
Good point. After almost 40 years behind an SLR, I don't even think about correcting my horizon any more...and it is usually not angled.

02-08-2019, 10:09 AM   #23
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Great thread!
02-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #24
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Thanks for so many genuinely helpful and thought-provoking replies, folks. I'm starting to realise just how sloppy about composition I've gradually become over the years, and there are all kinds of tips here that I'm going to be thinking about and giving a try.
02-08-2019, 11:06 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
Thanks for so many genuinely helpful and thought-provoking replies, folks. I'm starting to realise just how sloppy about composition I've gradually become over the years, and there are all kinds of tips here that I'm going to be thinking about and giving a try.
One rule I do follow, well, not a rule so much as a default behaviour, is that if I don’t like what I am looking at I try to get closer before adjusting anything else. Consequently, I don’t have a lot of use for wide angle lenses. My preference is standard to very short telephoto lenses.
It puts me in quite a minority. When one of the what lens is best for landscapes threads pop up I am always a lone voice for the standard lens in a crowd of advocates for wides.
02-08-2019, 11:17 AM - 1 Like   #26
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I'm so slow I usually have plenty of time to put the large hood cover over my camera and head ;-) Plenty of time to compose and recompose looking out for all those pesky intruders (branches, signs, litter etc) otherwise fouling the composition, adjusting the horizon, shuffling forward and back (primes), ensure the background supports the composition, etc. etc. Then wait till the light is just so as this is critical to any successful composition as the light gives the necessary form. Slooow is best.

Much the same approach with my product photography. Just plain slowly does it. Somehow I see things much better by waiting and looking and looking some more ...
02-08-2019, 11:26 AM   #27
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A bit of background - My first period of interest in photography was in the 1970s and 1980s. I took slides and, because of the cost and time to return from processing, I took time over composition and the technical aspects of exposure, etc. Less so DoF. My wife was a window dresser and one thing I often did was take photos of her windows - which were effectively "constructed compositions" with great similarity to photo images - even to the aspect ratio at times.

On picking up my photographic interest again in recent years I found that the basics of composition flooded back and had become instinctive. I rarely use a tripod, even in dim light as I want to be able to respond quickly to what I see and capture the atmosphere rather than what can become a clinical image. I tend to set up basic settings for mode/ISO/shutter/aperture etc., when I know the location and what I am likely to shoot. I will vary those settings in the light of reviewing the images and as lighting or subject changes. Likewise with DoF. However, the actual composition and point of focus are more or less instinctive and I will zoom the lens and move it around the subject until I see a frame for that subject. Often this takes just moments but sometimes I come to the conclusion that there simply isn't a worthwhile image to be had - from that location at least, and move on.
02-08-2019, 11:36 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolpa47 Quote
A bit of background - My first period of interest in photography was in the 1970s and 1980s. I took slides and, because of the cost and time to return from processing, I took time over composition and the technical aspects of exposure, etc. Less so DoF. My wife was a window dresser and one thing I often did was take photos of her windows - which were effectively "constructed compositions" with great similarity to photo images - even to the aspect ratio at times.

On picking up my photographic interest again in recent years I found that the basics of composition flooded back and had become instinctive. I rarely use a tripod, even in dim light as I want to be able to respond quickly to what I see and capture the atmosphere rather than what can become a clinical image. I tend to set up basic settings for mode/ISO/shutter/aperture etc., when I know the location and what I am likely to shoot. I will vary those settings in the light of reviewing the images and as lighting or subject changes. Likewise with DoF. However, the actual composition and point of focus are more or less instinctive and I will zoom the lens and move it around the subject until I see a frame for that subject. Often this takes just moments but sometimes I come to the conclusion that there simply isn't a worthwhile image to be had - from that location at least, and move on.
The DOF button on my Post K1000 cameras really had an effect of my photography
02-08-2019, 01:29 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
At first I tried the spray & prey method, but after getting mostly rubbish out of it , I slowed down, read books, watched video and observed that pros are doing. And now I doing the slow method, researching the best view point, noticing the light direction, using guiding lines, perspective of frame objects position and importance relative to each other, my photographs are improving dramatically. Quote from Hanri Cartier-Bresson: "To take a photograph is to align the head, the eye and the heart. It's a way of life"
Dont want to hijack the thread (and its sort of on point), but could you recommend a few books on composition? I am certain it is worth more than a couple of new lenses to improve my photos.
02-08-2019, 01:35 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
One rule I do follow, well, not a rule so much as a default behaviour, is that if I don’t like what I am looking at I try to get closer before adjusting anything else. Consequently, I don’t have a lot of use for wide angle lenses. My preference is standard to very short telephoto lenses.
It puts me in quite a minority. When one of the what lens is best for landscapes threads pop up I am always a lone voice for the standard lens in a crowd of advocates for wides.
I am also very much in this camp. For many years my widest lens was a 28mm on 35mm film, and it was rarely used. Anything between 50mm and 135mm was the norm for me. Recently I've begun to work more with wide angle, but still find myself moving in closer to make something "stand out".
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