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02-16-2019, 11:25 PM   #1
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What lens for this shot?

I'm looking for a new lens for this photo.
Lighting is not an issue. I will be framing (portrait) Print sizes are 5x7 or 8x10. Focus speed is not relevant as the camera is mounted on lanes and lens is in manual focus (So a full manual lens could be used)
Part 1
I have total controls over distance from subject.
Part 2
I will be using a FF body.
Part 3
Need to use the smallest f-stop (need to get the ugly back ground blurred) background is about 25-30 feet from subject.

Should I go with a 35mm to created more separation from back ground?
Should I go with a super fast 50mm to maximize OOF?
Should I go with 85mm to created good compression of the ball & bowler.
Should I go with a ??????????????????

There is no time for post work on the images as I need to have the product out to bowlers within minutes.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Photobill

Attached photo was shot with a APS-C body (K3II) don't remember what lens probably DA 35 or DA 50. cropping was done.

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Last edited by Photobill; 02-16-2019 at 11:46 PM.
02-16-2019, 11:49 PM - 1 Like   #2
dms
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If you are adjusting your position for the same size image (of the bowler) then the depth of field is the same, at the same f-stop, and 35mm will minimize the background. But the fast 50 could give you smaller DOF by virtue of faster lens, and less geometric distortion. So it is between the 35mm and 50mm, and I would think the 35mm to be better (smaller sized background). But I would think you could simply go and try the lenses and see what works best.
02-16-2019, 11:58 PM   #3
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As of now I own the DA 35 & 50. I will be moving to a FF body. I am going to purchase a new lens to improve my product. I am planning on renting before buying but am interested in suggestion's.
Thanks
02-17-2019, 12:36 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Why are you moving to full frame if you're only making small prints?

Wider apertures on a full frame body will make precise focus on a moving subject extremely difficult, even with a degree of control over the subject to camera distance.

I reckon your K-3 II and DA50/1.8 should be more than capable of producing the images your clients want.

02-17-2019, 02:50 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Suggestions from me are

Pentax FA 85mm 1.4
Pentax FA 77mm 1.8
Pentax K 85mm f1.8
Pentax DFA 100mm f2.8
Tamron 90mm f2.8
Pentax K 105mm f2.8

Pentax F 135mm f2.8 would be awesome but I am unsure if it will frame as you wish. Perhaps test with a zoom to get the right focal length???
02-17-2019, 02:52 AM   #6
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Photobill, you have a lot of dark in the background. Consider black and white finish from raw. I get great results from a 35mm with crop sensor.
02-17-2019, 03:21 AM - 1 Like   #7
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" I reckon your K-3 II and DA50/1.8 should be more than capable of producing the images your clients want", or the same lens with a K1 if you go FF
02-17-2019, 05:34 AM - 3 Likes   #8
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I suggest your main concern should be doing something about that window in the background which will ruin any shot. Perhaps choose a different lane.

And perhaps consider flash in manual mode so the subject is illuminated but the background is not.

02-17-2019, 06:46 AM - 1 Like   #9
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I think it depends on how far in front the ball will get and if you want it in focus too. A 70mm will need to be about 15m away for framing. Then f2.8 gets you about 2.2m in front and 3.1 behind. A 50mm about 10m at f3.2 gets you 2m in front and 3.4 in back and a 35mm need about 6m to frame at f5.6 gets 2.1m front, 7.3 back. All on apsc. So the longest lens from the farthest away that gets the framing seems best to me. This is all based on my guess on distance for framing which may be off. Just find the distance needed for framing and how much area in front needed for dof and plug them in a dof calculator and see which has the least dof behind.
02-17-2019, 07:57 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by chrism888 Quote
" I reckon your K-3 II and DA50/1.8 should be more than capable of producing the images your clients want"
What he said. Not much need for FF on the print size you are going for. The 50 will give a comfortable working distance and nice shallow depth of field.

For something a little longer, look at the Samyang/Rokinon 85mm f/1.4. I have one and I love it. Or a Pentax 77mm f/1.8 Limited if you have the budget. I don't have one of those but its reputation precedes it. On a lower budget, you can't go wrong with ye olde SMC Pentax M 85mm f/2 or 100mm f/2.8.

The FA* 85mm f/1.4 would be good choice as well, but they are getting scarce and they are expensive. Its long awaited replacement is about to be announced by Ricoh. Any day now. Real soon.

On the whole, the 77mm Limited is the best choice. You don't need AF for this shot but it will be useful for other things in the future. And you can get a new one right now.
02-17-2019, 09:03 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
I suggest your main concern should be doing something about that window in the background which will ruin any shot. Perhaps choose a different lane.
this for sure....

also...
I think you already have the OOF behind the bowler but the seating and scoring bench are highly reflective hard plastic which seem to define their outline.....maybe feather the lighting to lessen the light spill.....I like the 2 flash reflection on/in the ball but the 2/4 light reflection on the seat not so much (jacket or some kinda product gear)

be nice for both eyes of the bowler although but not everyone slings the same and the straight up perspective is neat.....not sure but maybe key light ofc righties for righties and opposite for lefties

for a different lens longer would suit you better as your already covered at the normal to wide.....what you said about compression would certainly come into play
02-17-2019, 03:45 PM   #12
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Thanks for the info!!!
The first photo was some test shots from earlier and yes the window is very distracting. It is not an image that I sale but one of my son as my model. (He only charges me a beer or two)

I just did some testing today.
Canon 6D (FF) camera @ 15 feet from bowler 50mm lens at 1.8.
I'm now thinking I will not be able to get the background OOF enough with a larger f-stop. And I cant afford more lose of DOF as each bowlers approach varies. Next time out I'm going to try some deferent soft box's to the bowlers left & right (9x36 with & without honey comb grids) this should get the light to falloff in the background and I plan on killing the flash out by the camera.
"I AM A PENTAXIAN" but have found I am not able to use them in this setup
I also own a Canon 6D (FF) as well as a 1D III (1.3 crop factor) that I will be using for this setup. I need to be able to wirelessly transfer photos to my computer instantly for printing. I have tried Pentax flucard as well as the mobi WiFi cards and they do not have a strong enough signal. The 6D WiFi is slightly stronger but still not enough. I have just ordered a "CASE AIR" for WiFi file transferring and it claims of a 150 foot range but it is not Pentax compatible. The camera is mounted on a rig that sets on the gutter cap and is extended over the lane. Once set up I never touch the camera. Shutter is triggered by a Cactus LV5 and flashes by a Cactus V6II.
I set up in deferent bowling centers when they host a bowling event. Sometimes I need to take photos of 20-30 bowlers in 30 min. As well as get the files to my computer & print them. So I'm always trying to fine tune & improve.

Photo below is straight out of camera. I'm now thinking of trying a 85mm on the 1D III with its x1.3 crop factor. This will control the compression better. If you look at this photo the bowling ball needs compressed.

---------- Post added 02-17-19 at 05:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
For something a little longer, look at the Samyang/Rokinon 85mm f/1.4. I have one and I love it
I am looking at them now😀 how far down do you need to stop it to get good/great E2E sharpness?
As you can see in my second photo using 50mm wide open the sharpness on my son's face is suffering. (Yes I know not all 50mm shot wide open E2E sharpness are the same😁 ) now that I'm going to focus on getting the light to fall of quicker I will not be shooting wide open.

Thanks all Photobill
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Canon EOS 6D  Photo 

Last edited by Photobill; 02-17-2019 at 04:40 PM.
02-19-2019, 12:42 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Photobill Quote
I am looking at them now😀 how far down do you need to stop it to get good/great E2E sharpness?
I guess f/5.6 or f/8 would be fine. That said, I didn't really buy the lens for shooting at f/8. I live on the edge at f/2.
03-09-2019, 01:06 PM - 1 Like   #14
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When I saw the first picture, my first thought was, "50mm, f/1.4, wide open, no question." Two reasons: first, to narrow the depth of field, second, to be able to use a faster shutter speed without the harsh effects of a flash (the second picture's pretty bad in that respect). The ISO isn't going to matter much, since the bowler is close enough that you're not going to have that much noise, anyway (considered in terms of the ratio of the quantity of noisy pixels to the valid ones in the important part of the picture). So to me, I'd use that lens, set the ISO to, say, 800 to 1600 (depending on the slowest shutter speed you can live with and still stop the motion), turn off the flash, set the aperture wide open, and then adjust the shutter speed to the fastest possible with an eye on the exposure meter. You can always dial the ISO up or down as needed once you've established a baseline exposure value.
03-17-2019, 11:26 AM   #15
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The shadows from the on camera flash detracts from the image. Rather set up one (or more) to one or both sides. Flash exposure really allows you to capture the action and you can then have the background in darkness. Or light it up if you want. Multiple flash photography is a whole game of its own, that I don't have a lot of expertise on.


Fast fifty, wide open, is an easier approach. You don't have a lot of DOF to work with, so you might need multiple tries with each bowler to determine the focus point. Continuous AF may or may not be of help here.


Another approach would be to set up some LED light panels to help with exposure. Unfortunately, LED panels for photography are not cheap. The general purpose ones sold at hardware stores might not have a very good color temperature balance.
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