[BruceBanner]

I have been asked about AF quite a few times, what I do and how I approach a shot, all the different modes, how they work etc, so I did a video for them as it seemed quicker and easier than typing a 3 page novel. Some of this stuff people will know, some perhaps not so much. I hope this helps some people.

Cheers,

BB

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[2B1]

Bruce , Cheers for posting this.

[biz-engineer]

Great presentation of AF settings on the K-1.

Regarding LV AF in the coffee mug, at min. 18:41. Something I noticed with my K-1 and D-FA 28-105, on close subjects with cluttered background, the K-1 won't focus on the closest object (e.g flower is the subject in the foreground), but will focus on the background. The reason for that is that the CDAF algorithm won't scan the full AF range that the lens is capable off, so it'll focus on the object that comes first in focus within the focus area (little square in LV mode), instead of focusing of the object closest to the camera. People may complain that the camera will focus on the background instead of focusing on the nearest subject. There is a simple trick to solve that problem: prefocus the lens at nearest focus distance and the LV AF will nail focus quickly , every time (100% success). Want the camera to focus behind the foreground object? => pre-focus the lens at infinity, and LV AF will nail focus quickly every time. I've tested the pre-focus approach, and it nails focus straight, every time.

[microlight]

Great video, Eddy - thanks for posting. It’s good to put a voice to a name - am I detecting a faint Scottish burr behind the Aussie twang?

Like you, I use focus priority for AFC in both settings with the K-3II, with ‘hold AF status’ mainly off. I also use SEL3 AFC mode (25 points active) which does a pretty good job of tracking within the AF frame in OVF mode.

I say ‘in OVF mode’ because that’s where I have traditionally spent virtually 100% of my time. What opened my eyes a little was your focus (pun - sorry) on Live View and how useful if can be. The K-3II has the same face detect/tracking/multiple points/select/spot in LV, so I think it’s time to use it more. It’s interesting that you think that the face detection is more eye-detect (certainly in the K-1) as this is a feature that some Pentaxians have been asking for - and there it is!

And thanks to biz-engineer for the tip on focus ranges.

[BruceBanner]

Great video, Eddy - thanks for posting. It’s good to put a voice to a name - am I detecting a faint Scottish burr behind the Aussie twang?

Like you, I use focus priority for AFC in both settings with the K-3II, with ‘hold AF status’ mainly off. I also use SEL3 AFC mode (25 points active) which does a pretty good job of tracking within the AF frame in OVF mode.

I say ‘in OVF mode’ because that’s where I have traditionally spent virtually 100% of my time. What opened my eyes a little was your focus (pun - sorry) on Live View and how useful if can be. The K-3II has the same face detect/tracking/multiple points/select/spot in LV, so I think it’s time to use it more. It’s interesting that you think that the face detection is more eye-detect (certainly in the K-1) as this is a feature that some Pentaxians have been asking for - and there it is!

And thanks to biz-engineer for the tip on focus ranges.

To me photography is a trade, like any other, a camera a tool and like all tradesmen with their trades you pick the right tool for the job, but you can also spend 20yrs in the trade and still learn something new or a different way to do something with the same tool you have been using for most of your life. If your thing is sport then probably Pentax is not the best choice of tool for the job. It's not that it can't be done, but in terms of competition yer slightly behind the 8 ball to the rest of the competition. If landscape is your thing then Pentax has your back etc.
Focus is the same for me, the camera gives you a variety of means to focus, why not exploit them? I believe a very good photographer can assess a situation and decide quickly what will be the best approach to take the shot, both in terms of obtaining correct focus quickly, composition choice, placement and all that stuff. Sometimes Live View is optimum and quickest and painless, sometimes it's not. I can start numerous times in Live View and then admit defeat and use OVF. The same can also be true vice versa. If yer wise you can quickly correct a bad decision as well and have your User Modes set up quickly to change the strategy and approach.

When you decide to try and make money out of photography and now your shots are not for fun and you but for someone else and their special never to be repeated celebration festivals, you kinda get serious and the hobby becomes work. For me that meant practice, and really a mannequin was indispensable (especially to the off camera flash stuff). Family can only take so much, plus they move, so it gets harder to evaluate things.

I've had the conversation about Face Detection (FD) compared to Eye Detection (ED) for so long now, it was recently the second most sought after Pentax feature on a recent Pentax FB group poll, I just shook my head. Half of them don't even know about Face Detection let alone put it through its paces and discover what's happening and what's going on. No one was more surprised or pleased to see the eyes being crucial to the shot, really as far as I can see the only difference between our FD vs other cameras ED is the way the box is presented in LV. We get a large face box, others have a smaller box over the eye. I also imagine other cameras 'do it better', faces recognised better from further away, different tilted angles, and even perhaps shades and glasses are not a deal breaker to the feature working. It's great that we have it but I imagine it could be much improved, I bet the latest flagship phones do FD better for example. One thing that peeves me for example is when doing a group shot and it wants to prioritise the person on the edge of the group and not the centre, there is supposed to be a way to 'tilt' the face it's picked up and push it onto the next, but really I don't get much joy with that. How I wish you could use a directional pad to tell it to try and use the next face and so on so forth.

Here's an album I have thrown together to show all the successes (and a few misses, or wrong eye). More often than not however its decent results; Portrait (Face Detection Only) | Flickr

Here's an example of wrong eye for example, probably caused by the glasses, still a nice shot tho;



43mm, f2, check the eyes out (click the links and zoom in if you like);


FA77 wide open at 1.8;


Same again (nose and ears soft, eyes perfect);


You get the idea. The important thing is that 9/10 times these are one takes. I got the shot and didn't need to try again. If I took other shots it was because I wanted a different expression, not due to misfocus.

With other stuff I use AF Tracking a lot (like stationary stuff).


Oh and by the way yeh you heard Scottish English parents, moved to Scotland when I was 5, lived there my whole life till I was 26 when I moved out here with my wife. My accent has no idea what it wants to be, complete mess ahahaha

[microlight]

It’s that Celtic ear; I’m Welsh but lived in England since I graduated in 1974. So my accent is Home Counties - until I go to Wales and then it changes radically.

I hear what you say about hobbies becoming jobs. A very good friend of mine plays the violin (very well) but because he’s worked in orchestral management for many years, he’s fallen out of love (his own term) with music in general and would these days prefer to read than listen. That’s very sad, and is probably very applicable to photography when you turn pro.

[BruceBanner]

It’s that Celtic ear; I’m Welsh but lived in England since I graduated in 1974. So my accent is Home Counties - until I go to Wales and then it changes radically.

I hear what you say about hobbies becoming jobs. A very good friend of mine plays the violin (very well) but because he’s worked in orchestral management for many years, he’s fallen out of love (his own term) with music in general and would these days prefer to read than listen. That’s very sad, and is probably very applicable to photography when you turn pro.

It can be a bit like that. It's a bizarre thing, by taking things more seriously I am producing such higher quality of work, even more than I was putting out 6-12 months ago, I can see the learning curve being quite apparent and not subtle. But that studying, learning, practising, it all comes at a price, 'fatigue' for lack of a better word. And also it's not the kind of casual affair when trying to produce really high end shots, often the equipment list grows and so do the expenses. You're not just a guy walking around with a camera and a couple of lenses. You now own AD200's, triggers, modifiers, stands, backdrops, spares and backups for everything... the list goes on and on and on, and the hassle of ferrying it around for jobs is painful ahha.

I'm also spending 90% of the time taking shots and processing images for others than shooting for myself. It's not that I don't fully enjoy the 90% of shooting and editing for others, it's just it can feel 'worky' and not 'hobby'. Sometimes I see a nice shot that I could take for myself, but then I think about it just adding to the backlog so I leave it, I weigh it up... could it be a really really good shot.. or just an ok shot.
I'm still quite new to all this so I wonder how I will feel in a few years time. I might market myself as pro and do the odd gig here and there but I am far from it becoming enough of a venture to quit the day job. If I even make $40k (AUD) per year through photography within the next 3yrs I will be extremely chuffed. So there's pro and then there's pro is what I'm saying (I wouldn't want to give off the impression I am mr successful or anything )

Very good. And, regardless of one's prior knowledge of the subject, the description of your techniques (since everyone can be pretty idiosyncratic given the huge range of options flexibility with the K-1) is very useful. There were a couple of things you mentioned that made me dig out my own camera and reconsider how I do things. Thanks, @BruceBanner.

[aslyfox]

thank you for taking the time to share this knowledge

Members sharing knowledge is one of the great things about this forum

[biz-engineer]

A little confusion about face detection and eye AF. Face detection means that the camera is able to find the area of an image where there is a face, and the eyes are part of the face pattern being recognized. This is the first step. Once the area of image where there is a human face is found, the auto-focus will adjust the lens focus so that the local contrast is maxed out over the face area, since eyes are basically down circles surrounded by white circle this is where the max local contrast is achieved, that's why most face detect AF photos turn out to be focused on the eyes, although it's only working if two eyes are visible in the frame. I'm not sure how well CDAF will focus on profile portraits, probably not on the eye.

[Videopilot]

Great video. Thanks for posting!

[NomNamNom]

Thank you for doing this! I've never really thought of tinkering with LV until this video. I'll have play with it sometime soon.

[Larrymc]

Thanks for the informative video, Eddy! I was prompted to check out the CDAF Live View tracking on my K-3 and found it to be really responsive much more so than the PDAF Tracking. Again, thanks!

BTW, Where did you buy the Magnifying Eye Piece Adapter and what brand is it?

[BruceBanner]

A little confusion about face detection and eye AF. Face detection means that the camera is able to find the area of an image where there is a face, and the eyes are part of the face pattern being recognized. This is the first step. Once the area of image where there is a human face is found, the auto-focus will adjust the lens focus so that the local contrast is maxed out over the face area, since eyes are basically down circles surrounded by white circle this is where the max local contrast is achieved, that's why most face detect AF photos turn out to be focused on the eyes, although it's only working if two eyes are visible in the frame. I'm not sure how well CDAF will focus on profile portraits, probably not on the eye.

I don't really question the hows of something, I just stress it and see what happens under real life situations. It can seem to do profiles a fair bit, just not overly strong ones. FD worked here for example;



and here;



I'll admit I haven't tested full side profiles properly, something to try!

Here's the times it succeeds in grabbing the closest eye, just a silly quick test with my kid but it does show a consistent approach to grabbing the closest eye;



I recall FD struggling quite a bit on this shot;



I believe there was perhaps some reflections in the glasses caused by a window behind be, closed the curtains and it was assisted in seeing the eyes.

Very good. And, regardless of one's prior knowledge of the subject, the description of your techniques (since everyone can be pretty idiosyncratic given the huge range of options flexibility with the K-1) is very useful. There were a couple of things you mentioned that made me dig out my own camera and reconsider how I do things. Thanks, @BruceBanner.

You're welcome.

Great video. Thanks for posting!

No probs.

Thank you for doing this! I've never really thought of tinkering with LV until this video. I'll have play with it sometime soon.

thank you for taking the time to share this knowledge

Members sharing knowledge is one of the great things about this forum

Sharing is caring.

Thanks for the informative video, Eddy! I was prompted to check out the CDAF Live View tracking on my K-3 and found it to be really responsive much more so than the PDAF Tracking. Again, thanks!

BTW, Where did you buy the Magnifying Eye Piece Adapter and what brand is it?

Tenpa 1.22 magnifier. Not cheap, I paid over $100AUD for mine, purchased from eBay.

[HoutHans]

Yes, thanks for posting this informative video. Sharing knowledge is a great thing!