[ivanvernon]

I have made some post trying to get into the Exclusive Gallery and found out just how poor my photography is and then this last time was told the following. "Have you SEEN the quality of the shots in the gallery? Do you really think ANY of these are even close? Please stop. You are driving everybody NUTS and are wasting our time.This is a mediocre snapshot with really, really bad purple fringing sun the tree, that has a nice starburst because you used a very nice lens. Aside from that, well, I'll try not to be rude at this point. Please stop submitting until you understand where the standard is."


Guess I am actually worse than I thought when it comes to my photos and I see that now. So, I won't be posting in the Exclusive Gallery anymore. I guess it is time to own that I am not that good. I will have to take some real time to evaluate my work. The truth hurts sometimes, but it can be good in the long run. Hope to get better.

Sorry you got such a rude awakening. I am sure I would have fared no better. At the age of 80, I doubt I will ever get much better! Good luck in improving as you move forward!

[Photos-by-Chas]

Here is one that was rejected and I guess I have a long ways to go. I see their points and trying to improve.

I like the lights and the overall blue cast to the photo. IMHO it is a well composed photo, sharp focus, and an interesting (although busy) subject matter. Also, if the photo pleases you that is what matters most.

Recently I heard that judges of a photography competitions are not always looking at photos objectively and the comments you received support that theory.

[mhsp1948]

Yes, I agree with you Photos-by-Chas. for the last 10 photos I submitted at least two like what I did and one by his comments I recognize him/her and this judge is always against every photo I posted.

[Dartmoor Dave]

Yes, I agree with you Photos-by-Chas. for the last 10 photos I submitted at least two like what I did and one by his comments I recognize him/her and this judge is always against every photo I posted.

It's surprising to find that you're still submitting so many photos to the PEG, because ten seems like a heck of a lot. Surely it must be clear by now that the sort of thing you're doing just doesn't conform to the very specific aesthetic that the judges are looking for. I want to be very clear that this absolutely does NOT mean that your photos are bad photos, it just means that you're not doing the sort of things that the judges are very clearly only interested in.

I urge you not to buy into the PEG's own narrative that it represents the "best" of Pentax photography, because it manifestly does not. There are some nice photos in there, but there are also a lot of arguably overprocessed ones. Every day I see photos posted on this forum that I personally think are better than anything I've seen in PEG, but probably none of those photos would be accepted by the judges if they were submitted, because they don't conform to the PEG style of point scoring technical "perfection".

I should also point out that it's not the judges' job to teach people how to match up to the style that they are interested in. If you're trying to use them as some sort on a free expert critiquing service then it's understandable that they'll eventually get frustrated.

I really think you need to stop being so masochistic about this. Stop letting the PEG delude you into thinking that its photos are the best that Pentax represents. Stop measuring yourself against an arbitrary and false standard that you might never manage to conform to anyway.

[mhsp1948]

Very well stated Dartmoor, and yes I have been masochistic in my efforts and also it has impacted me as I have let it do so without considering all the elements of your summary. Actually want to thank you for taking the time to say it as you have. Now I must stop for my own sake and wake up to what I am doing to myself. Thank you again for posting Dartmoor.

[Rondec]

It's surprising to find that you're still submitting so many photos to the PEG, because ten seems like a heck of a lot. Surely it must be clear by now that the sort of thing you're doing just doesn't conform to the very specific aesthetic that the judges are looking for. I want to be very clear that this absolutely does NOT mean that your photos are bad photos, it just means that you're not doing the sort of things that the judges are very clearly only interested in.

I urge you not to buy into the PEG's own narrative that it represents the "best" of Pentax photography, because it manifestly does not. There are some nice photos in there, but there are also a lot of arguably overprocessed ones. Every day I see photos posted on this forum that I personally think are better than anything I've seen in PEG, but probably none of those photos would be accepted by the judges if they were submitted, because they don't conform to the PEG style of point scoring technical "perfection".

I should also point out that it's not the judges' job to teach people how to match up to the style that they are interested in. If you're trying to use them as some sort on a free expert critiquing service then it's understandable that they'll eventually get frustrated.

I really think you need to stop being so masochistic about this. Stop letting the PEG delude you into thinking that its photos are the best that Pentax represents. Stop measuring yourself against an arbitrary and false standard that you might never manage to conform to anyway.

True.

If you like the style of images that are in PEG and aspire to have images that look like that, then it is worthwhile to occasionally submit images in that direction to see how you are measuring up. But if your vision is in a different direction, then it is probably best to let it go. I suppose it is a bit of "knowing your audience." Not just PEG but most other photo contests have a style of image that their judges tend to give good marks to and if your style of photography doesn't fit with that, then it probably isn't best to submit much work in that direction.

It isn't to say any particular vision is right or wrong, but on the other hand, people also tend to like what they like and don't change quickly, if at all.

[normhead]

I have made some post trying to get into the Exclusive Gallery and found out just how poor my photography is and then this last time was told the following. "Have you SEEN the quality of the shots in the gallery? Do you really think ANY of these are even close? Please stop. You are driving everybody NUTS and are wasting our time.This is a mediocre snapshot with really, really bad purple fringing sun the tree, that has a nice starburst because you used a very nice lens. Aside from that, well, I'll try not to be rude at this point. Please stop submitting until you understand where the standard is."


Guess I am actually worse than I thought when it comes to my photos and I see that now. So, I won't be posting in the Exclusive Gallery anymore. I guess it is time to own that I am not that good. I will have to take some real time to evaluate my work. The truth hurts sometimes, but it can be good in the long run. Hope to get better.

I have no images in the gallery, don't feel bad. ( I have had images selected as covers for facebook groups and forums, have had images with 600,000 views on image hosting sites, and over 750 likes on facebook.)
I do have images here...
https://pentaxphotogallery.com/manage/your-photo-gallery/

The difference here is my images are voted on by hundreds of users. Not a couple of opinionated critics.

When I used to sell my images at craft shows, I used to think 1 in 10 attendees come into my booth. 1 of those buy something. So I'm selling to maybe 1 in 100. Yet I did very well. Just because one of the critics for the Forum gallery didn't like your work doesn't mean it isn't good work by some else's criteria. Slough it off. It means next to nothing. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters. I've sold images I couldn't get into the exclusive gallery, so what exactly does that mean? What some people will pay for, others won't post for free.

The Gallery tends to emphasize technical excellence over artistic excellence.Look at the worlds most famous photographs. An awful to of them wouldn't get into the gallery based on some niggling technical deficiency.

I remember when one guy bought a Gallery reject he said, "this image has a real spiritual quality to it, I've never seen in a photograph, maybe in some paintings." The Gallery doesn't evaluate "spiritual qualities" The funny thing, is I thought the same thing about the photo. I thought, "this is like one of those oil paintings you see in museums." That guy guy paid $350 for a 30x20 canvas, because he got it. The forum experts turned it down because they didn't.
Fluff, I say, fluff.

I've seen images with purple fringing in Outdoor Photographer, so, you can take your cue from an actual working editor who gets paid for doing what he does, or a bunch of hyper critical amateurs. It amazes me how some guys just lock into a preset, like "the horizon has to be level" , "the colour balance has too be based on neutral gray" or "there can't be any purple fringing" and are so locked into these ideologies they can't see the picture.

I stopped submitting when I started feeling sad because of the lack of understanding of photography revealed by the comments of the judges. Are those really people you want to use to evaluate your work? You don't wan't criticism from those who don't understand your work, you want suggestions from those who get it.

I've entered competitions judged by photographers where the winner was the guy who produced images most like the style of one of the judges won. The whole competion ended up being like a validation of the way one of the judges shot." At least those competitions had valuable prizes. I hate to get insulted for nothing.

Enjoy your pictures when you get one you like, and just take it as given, if you like it, there's probably thousands of others who'd like i t if they saw it. Maybe not the kind of people who are judges for the Forum Gallery, but real people.

Back when I was teaching, evaluating a hundred photographs a week, a comment like that could have gotten me fired. There are disadvantages to appointing untrained people with unknown skillsets to positions where they judge the work of others.

Take these things with a grain of salt. Keep shooting, enjoy what you do.

---

Last edited by normhead; 02-22-2020 at 11:47 AM.

[ivanvernon]

I have no images in the gallery, don't feel bad. ( I have had images selected as covers for facebook groups and forums, have had images with 600,000 views on image hosting sites, and over 750 likes on facebook.)
I do have images here...
https://pentaxphotogallery.com/manage/your-photo-gallery/

The difference here is my images are voted on by hundreds of users. Not a couple of opinionated critics.

When I used to sell my images at craft shows, I used to think 1 in 10 attendees come into my booth. 1 of those buy something. So I'm selling to maybe 1 in 100. Yet I did very well. Just because one of the critics for the Forum gallery didn't like your work doesn't mean it isn't good work by some else's criteria. Slough it off. It means next to nothing. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters. I've sold images I couldn't get into the exclusive gallery, so what exactly does that mean? What some people will pay for, others won't post for free.

The Gallery tends to emphasize technical excellence over artistic excellence.Look at the worlds most famous photographs. An awful to of them wouldn't get into the gallery based on some niggling technical deficiency.

I remember when one guy bought a Gallery reject he said, "this image has a real spiritual quality to it, I've never seen in a photograph, maybe in some paintings." The Gallery doesn't evaluate "spiritual qualities" The funny thing, is I thought the same thing about the photo. I thought, "this is like one of those oil paintings you see in museums." That guy guy paid $350 for a 30x20 canvas, because he got it. The forum experts turned it down because they didn't.
Fluff, I say, fluff.

I've seen images with purple fringing in Outdoor Photographer, so, you can take your cue from an actual working editor who gets paid for doing what he does, or a bunch of hyper critical amateurs. It amazes me how some guys just lock into a preset, like "the horizon has to be level" , "the colour balance has too be based on neutral gray" or "there can't be any purple fringing" and are so locked into these ideologies they can't see the picture.

I stopped submitting when I started feeling sad because of the lack of understanding of photography revealed by the comments of the judges. Are those really people you want to use to evaluate your work? You don't wan't criticism from those who don't understand your work, you want suggestions from those who get it.

I've entered competitions judged by photographers where the winner was the guy who produced images most like the style of one of the judges won. The whole competion ended up being like a validation of the way one of the judges shot." At least those competitions had valuable prizes. I hate to get insulted for nothing.

Enjoy your pictures when you get one you like, and just take it as given, if you like it, there's probably thousands of others who'd like i t if they saw it. Maybe not the kind of people who are judges for the Forum Gallery, but real people.

Back when I was teaching, evaluating a hundred photographs a week, a comment like that could have gotten me fired. There are disadvantages to appointing untrained people with unknown skillsets to positions where they judge the work of others.

Take these things with a grain of salt. Keep shooting, enjoy what you do.

Very well stated.

[edom31]

I have no images in the gallery, don't feel bad. ( I have had images selected as covers for facebook groups and forums, have had images with 600,000 views on image hosting sites, and over 750 likes on facebook.)
I do have images here...
https://pentaxphotogallery.com/manage/your-photo-gallery/

The difference here is my images are voted on by hundreds of users. Not a couple of opinionated critics.

When I used to sell my images at craft shows, I used to think 1 in 10 attendees come into my booth. 1 of those buy something. So I'm selling to maybe 1 in 100. Yet I did very well. Just because one of the critics for the Forum gallery didn't like your work doesn't mean it isn't good work by some else's criteria. Slough it off. It means next to nothing. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters. I've sold images I couldn't get into the exclusive gallery, so what exactly does that mean? What some people will pay for, others won't post for free.

The Gallery tends to emphasize technical excellence over artistic excellence.Look at the worlds most famous photographs. An awful to of them wouldn't get into the gallery based on some niggling technical deficiency.

I remember when one guy bought a Gallery reject he said, "this image has a real spiritual quality to it, I've never seen in a photograph, maybe in some paintings." The Gallery doesn't evaluate "spiritual qualities" The funny thing, is I thought the same thing about the photo. I thought, "this is like one of those oil paintings you see in museums." That guy guy paid $350 for a 30x20 canvas, because he got it. The forum experts turned it down because they didn't.
Fluff, I say, fluff.

I've seen images with purple fringing in Outdoor Photographer, so, you can take your cue from an actual working editor who gets paid for doing what he does, or a bunch of hyper critical amateurs. It amazes me how some guys just lock into a preset, like "the horizon has to be level" , "the colour balance has too be based on neutral gray" or "there can't be any purple fringing" and are so locked into these ideologies they can't see the picture.

I stopped submitting when I started feeling sad because of the lack of understanding of photography revealed by the comments of the judges. Are those really people you want to use to evaluate your work? You don't wan't criticism from those who don't understand your work, you want suggestions from those who get it.

I've entered competitions judged by photographers where the winner was the guy who produced images most like the style of one of the judges won. The whole competion ended up being like a validation of the way one of the judges shot." At least those competitions had valuable prizes. I hate to get insulted for nothing.

Enjoy your pictures when you get one you like, and just take it as given, if you like it, there's probably thousands of others who'd like i t if they saw it. Maybe not the kind of people who are judges for the Forum Gallery, but real people.

Back when I was teaching, evaluating a hundred photographs a week, a comment like that could have gotten me fired. There are disadvantages to appointing untrained people with unknown skillsets to positions where they judge the work of others.

Take these things with a grain of salt. Keep shooting, enjoy what you do.

Your opinions are always on point my man.

[SSGGeezer]

One of my submissions was what I thought to be the closest shot I have that "mimics" the work in the gallery (I did not purposely mimicked the style, it just came out that way due to the nature of the shot - long exposure at night) - that shot did not make the gallery by .20 in one category... I'm not mad at that; I'm actually amazed it was that close!!!

I for one am not surprised Ed, I was thinking as I red your post that they would accept at least one of your submissions as you do some landscapes that I like a great deal.

[edom31]

I for one am not surprised Ed, I was thinking as I red your post that they would accept at least one of your submissions as you do some landscapes that I like a great deal.

Thank you for your very kind words, @SSGGeezer - it is very encouraging to read this post!

[photoptimist]

I've seen images with purple fringing in Outdoor Photographer, so, you can take your cue from an actual working editor who gets paid for doing what he does, or a bunch of hyper critical amateurs. It amazes me how some guys just lock into a preset, like "the horizon has to be level" , "the colour balance has too be based on neutral gray" or "there can't be any purple fringing" and are so locked into these ideologies they can't see the picture.

The smaller the mind, the bigger the rules!

[edom31]

The smaller the mind, the bigger the rules!

Ohh I'ma use this one!!!!

[dLSK]

I'll chime in here as one who has numerous images in the PEG, and I regularly sell my landscape work to / through businesses, restaurants ( repeating and rotating the images per 2 month ) and the like.

I can tell you this. A WHOLE lot of people with really nice cameras believe they are incredible photographers. Not true, by a long shot.

Unfortunately, the way DSLR were marketed ( and still are ) it really, really gives folks a 100% false sense of their skill level. "My camera takes awesome pictures" Certainly does. You want it though, so YOU are taking the image.

Photography is A LOT like American Idol. Ever wonder why some of those just horrible "singers" try out? Like, how do you NOT know you're really bad? It's because nobody has told them the truth.

Your family and friends SHOULD encourage you, but not tell you that your OOF images are beautiful. When you're never told you are actually bad at something, you don't know you're bad at something.

Do like the others here say. Post in the critique section to get a realistic C+C on your images, instead of folks " in a mindset " ( said earlier by someone ) just ripping your work apart because, simply, they didn't take it.

Study actual professional photogs in your field of interest and figure out WHY those photos are SO good. They're not doing anything you can't, or can't learn to do.

The other more important thing. Don't strive for recognition goals in photography. Shoot for technical goals. Shoot for personal improvement goals. Stop paying attention to what other photographers are doing / how they are processing.

Sometimes, also, learning and growing comes with equipment requirements. For example : You'll NEVER take an award wining photo of a sunset WITHOUT ND Filters. Having the proper equipment for what you're trying to shoot helps.

Keep shooting FOR YOU. You'll get where you want to if you keep at it and keep learning.

[photolady95]

Do like the others here say. Post in the critique section to get a realistic C+C on your images, instead of folks " in a mindset " ( said earlier by someone ) just ripping your work apart because, simply, they didn't take it.

And posting in the Critique section doesn't always work either. I've seen where someone posts a photo asking for critique and others came in and said, that's a great shot or a beautiful shot. And the rules explicitly say don't do that, but you know, people don't read the stickies associated with each forum.

I used to post my photos in there only to have them shot down. One was of an Bald Eagle and it wasn't accepted because there was a pine needle across his face. I guess they didn't realize this wasn't a tattered bird in a zoo but it was not in a reserve either, it was in the wild. I couldn't clip the pine need and I sure wasn't going to climb up that fifty foot pine tree either.

Later, it was accepted in my PentaxGalleryPhotography, PPG. I need to reset that so I can see if any others have been accepted and of course, upload some more recent shots.