PEG rejection

**Photos-by-Chas** · 06-22-2020, 03:39 PM - **2 Likes**

For grins and giggles, I decided to try my luck and submitted a photo for the PEG yesterday. It was rejected. I admit I am a bit biased but I think it is one of my better photos. It is of Devil's Tower from the parking lot. The rejection was worded well without any harsh or scathing criticisms. The comments were complimentary but without much in the way of suggesting improvements. One mentioned that the photo was bright on his/her screen and suggested "...maybe apply some curves or dehaze." Another said, "Nice color, clouds, composition." The others, " Nicely done, very good detail and I like the composition. You've really caught excellent detail in the rock side. Very good technique, metering is very good." and finally "Very dramatic photo. The clouds and the angle make it." Scoring was, "Technique Score : 3.87 (Min: 1 Max: 6 Required: 4.4)
Composition Score : 3.83 (Min: 1 Max: 6 Required: 4.4) Creativity Score : 2.13 (Min: 1 Max: 4 Required: 2.5).

I'll take it as my first attempt to get into the exclusive gallery. Actually I did not think I would get it in, but also did not think I'd get the score I received. All in all I'm happy. I'm attaching a copy of the photo here for any additional comments and or critiques you may wish to make.

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**luftfluss** · 06-22-2020, 04:05 PM - **1 Like**

The first thing that popped into my head was the lighting is not good. There is a flat, summer-afternoon look to it. A couple hours later may have made a big difference.

ChristianRock · 06-22-2020, 04:09 PM

I agree with luftluss, better light would make a lot of difference. The composition is good.

**Photos-by-Chas** · 06-22-2020, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

The first thing that popped into my head was the lighting is not good. There is a flat, summer-afternoon look to it. A couple hours later may have made a big difference.

The photo was taken shortly after we arrived, had not even exited from the parking lot. Also we had limited time as rain began falling not long after we arrived. Just want to also point out one reviewer commented on the "...excellent detail in the rock side." I appreciate your comments and can see your point about shooting a couple hours later. Thank you for looking and your suggestion.

---------- Post added 06-22-20 at 07:57 PM ----------

Originally posted by ChristianRock

I agree with luftluss, better light would make a lot of difference. The composition is good.

Thank you for looking and for your comments. I'm here to learn .

leekil · 06-22-2020, 08:37 PM

I was not aware of the PEG until today.

zapp · 06-22-2020, 10:55 PM

A basalt dome with trees and clouds. Image is quite flat, no long dramatic shadows. Clouds are dramatic, but do not align with the rock. Perspective is kind of flat. For documentation you wish less clouds, for a dramatic image, you need a better position/perspective and more contrast.
Could you do much better that day at that time? Maybe not, maybe walk around more and play. The more you play on the other hand, the less documentation images you take. This is trade off between artistic and touristic images.
Try b/w processing, work on contrasts for contest, keep as is for your album.

Unregistered User · 06-23-2020, 12:00 AM

First I like this picture, actually it is great. The suggestions about later in the day and different light are a bit of the mark. They are a bit of technicalities. Five minutes, even ten seconds, later in the day and you would not have had these clouds, this would have been a dull picture without the clouds, or just white clouds.There was only one moment in time you could make this picture and you nailed it. You saw it and you saved the moment for posterity. You can make remarks at composition, but it is not actually you that made the composition, nature did that. And you were there at the right moment. I think you ought to be proud. And someday at the same spot you can make a picture again that is even better than this one, but still, you have to go with what nature serves you. Well done. And post processing, well that is a bit of forgery don't you think

?

Last edited by Unregistered User; 06-25-2020 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Again.. a typo!

**StiffLegged** · 06-23-2020, 12:45 AM - **2 Likes**

It’s a plain record of what you saw, but imagine you’d never seen the Tower before: how big is it really, does your photo give a real idea of its size? Is there something in frame to give a true idea how high it is? Not so easy, I know, but I’ve done the same and looked at the photos after to find they really didn’t do my impressions of Yosemite justice (seriously).

Unregistered User · 06-23-2020, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by StiffLegged

It’s a plain record of what you saw, but imagine you’d never seen the Tower before: how big is it really, does your photo give a real idea of its size? Is there something in frame to give a true idea how high it is? Not so easy, I know, but I’ve done the same and looked at the photos after to find they really didn’t do my impressions of Yosemite justice (seriously).

I have never seen the Tower as it is not around the corner from where I live, but my first thought was that it is huge. The diminished full grown trees and the tower touching the clouds (almost) give that impression and you see that you have to look up at it, that is the perspective in the picture, you look up to something that is huge. And yes, everyone of us sometimes (actualy more often than not) makes a picture and in afterthought you think that is not how I rembember it as it was. That is sometimes due to the small format of a picture, so I print it again and instead of 10x15 make it a 20-30. That sometimes helps to find out if you did succeed or didn't.

**StiffLegged** · 06-23-2020, 03:08 AM

Actually, I can’t tell whether the trees are tall or just hedge height mostly. I also can’t tell if the Tower is 20 yards behind the trees and is 70 feet high, or a quarter mile away and 700 feet high. Not trying to be contrary, just saying the photo as a factual representation lacks some context.

**BigMackCam** · 06-23-2020, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by AfterPentax

First I like this picture, actually it is great. The suggestions about later in the day and different light are a bit of the mark. They are a bit of technicalities. Five minutes, even ten seconds, later in the day and you would not have had these clouds, this would have been a dull picture without the clouds, or just white clouds.There was only one moment in time you could make this picture and you nailed it.

I also think it's a great photo... however, the suggestions about lighting are, in my view, spot on. It may well be that this was the only time to capture this precise scene, but that doesn't mean the lighting was conducive to the best representation of it. There's good reason why the "golden hour" is so beloved of good photographers. If you can capture the scene when the sun is at a low angle, you're rewarded with plenty of detail relief, a narrower overall dynamic range to capture, and generally warmer light. For all that, if I'm out and about, I'll capture a scene whatever the time of day, as I'd rather have something than nothing... but golden hour photos have something special about them.

**Serkevan** · 06-23-2020, 04:43 AM

I agree with the others: it has that flat, harsh-light-in-the-middle-of-the-day look that makes it lack that extra "punch". But, well, we can't control the light. We can do our best, and this is a great composition to remember if you ever have the chance to go for a do-over.

Also, there's an exclusive gallery? Huh

.

**Photos-by-Chas** · 06-23-2020, 09:03 AM

For those of you wishing to gain perspective on the size of Devil’s Tower, there are three adult humans in that photograph. Can you see them?

normhead · 06-23-2020, 09:16 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Serkevan

I agree with the others: it has that flat, harsh-light-in-the-middle-of-the-day look that makes it lack that extra "punch". But, well, we can't control the light. We can do our best, and this is a great composition to remember if you ever have the chance to go for a do-over.

Also, there's an exclusive gallery? Huh

.

I gave up trying to get a photo in years ago.
My acceptance rate. 0%
My acceptance rate here, 14 out of 15. Only one rejection.
Norman Head – Artist Gallery – Pentax

I look at the guys who post here...
Artists – Pentax

I'm happy with the situation.

**Serkevan** · 06-23-2020, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I gave up trying to get a photo in years ago.
My acceptance rate. 0%
My acceptance rate here, 14 out of 15. Only one rejection.
Norman Head – Artist Gallery – Pentax

I look at the guys who post here...
Artists – Pentax

I'm happy with the situation.

And all 14 of them are gorgeous, wow

.

06-23-2020, 12:00 AM	#7
Unregistered User Guest	First I like this picture, actually it is great. The suggestions about later in the day and different light are a bit of the mark. They are a bit of technicalities. Five minutes, even ten seconds, later in the day and you would not have had these clouds, this would have been a dull picture without the clouds, or just white clouds.There was only one moment in time you could make this picture and you nailed it. You saw it and you saved the moment for posterity. You can make remarks at composition, but it is not actually you that made the composition, nature did that. And you were there at the right moment. I think you ought to be proud. And someday at the same spot you can make a picture again that is even better than this one, but still, you have to go with what nature serves you. Well done. And post processing, well that is a bit of forgery don't you think? Last edited by Unregistered User; 06-25-2020 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Again.. a typo!

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06-22-2020, 04:05 PM - 1 Like	#2
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	The first thing that popped into my head was the lighting is not good. There is a flat, summer-afternoon look to it. A couple hours later may have made a big difference.

06-22-2020, 04:09 PM	#3
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	I agree with luftluss, better light would make a lot of difference. The composition is good.

06-22-2020, 04:55 PM	#4
Photos-by-Chas Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northwest Pennsylvania, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,318 Original Poster	Originally posted by luftfluss The first thing that popped into my head was the lighting is not good. There is a flat, summer-afternoon look to it. A couple hours later may have made a big difference. The photo was taken shortly after we arrived, had not even exited from the parking lot. Also we had limited time as rain began falling not long after we arrived. Just want to also point out one reviewer commented on the "...excellent detail in the rock side." I appreciate your comments and can see your point about shooting a couple hours later. Thank you for looking and your suggestion. ---------- Post added 06-22-20 at 07:57 PM ---------- Originally posted by ChristianRock I agree with luftluss, better light would make a lot of difference. The composition is good. Thank you for looking and for your comments. I'm here to learn .

06-22-2020, 08:37 PM	#5
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	I was not aware of the PEG until today.

06-22-2020, 10:55 PM	#6
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	A basalt dome with trees and clouds. Image is quite flat, no long dramatic shadows. Clouds are dramatic, but do not align with the rock. Perspective is kind of flat. For documentation you wish less clouds, for a dramatic image, you need a better position/perspective and more contrast. Could you do much better that day at that time? Maybe not, maybe walk around more and play. The more you play on the other hand, the less documentation images you take. This is trade off between artistic and touristic images. Try b/w processing, work on contrasts for contest, keep as is for your album.

06-23-2020, 12:45 AM - 2 Likes	#8
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,616	It’s a plain record of what you saw, but imagine you’d never seen the Tower before: how big is it really, does your photo give a real idea of its size? Is there something in frame to give a true idea how high it is? Not so easy, I know, but I’ve done the same and looked at the photos after to find they really didn’t do my impressions of Yosemite justice (seriously).

06-23-2020, 01:49 AM	#9
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by StiffLegged It’s a plain record of what you saw, but imagine you’d never seen the Tower before: how big is it really, does your photo give a real idea of its size? Is there something in frame to give a true idea how high it is? Not so easy, I know, but I’ve done the same and looked at the photos after to find they really didn’t do my impressions of Yosemite justice (seriously). I have never seen the Tower as it is not around the corner from where I live, but my first thought was that it is huge. The diminished full grown trees and the tower touching the clouds (almost) give that impression and you see that you have to look up at it, that is the perspective in the picture, you look up to something that is huge. And yes, everyone of us sometimes (actualy more often than not) makes a picture and in afterthought you think that is not how I rembember it as it was. That is sometimes due to the small format of a picture, so I print it again and instead of 10x15 make it a 20-30. That sometimes helps to find out if you did succeed or didn't.

06-23-2020, 03:08 AM	#10
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,616	Actually, I can’t tell whether the trees are tall or just hedge height mostly. I also can’t tell if the Tower is 20 yards behind the trees and is 70 feet high, or a quarter mile away and 700 feet high. Not trying to be contrary, just saying the photo as a factual representation lacks some context.

06-23-2020, 03:52 AM	#11
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,669	Originally posted by AfterPentax First I like this picture, actually it is great. The suggestions about later in the day and different light are a bit of the mark. They are a bit of technicalities. Five minutes, even ten seconds, later in the day and you would not have had these clouds, this would have been a dull picture without the clouds, or just white clouds.There was only one moment in time you could make this picture and you nailed it. I also think it's a great photo... however, the suggestions about lighting are, in my view, spot on. It may well be that this was the only time to capture this precise scene, but that doesn't mean the lighting was conducive to the best representation of it. There's good reason why the "golden hour" is so beloved of good photographers. If you can capture the scene when the sun is at a low angle, you're rewarded with plenty of detail relief, a narrower overall dynamic range to capture, and generally warmer light. For all that, if I'm out and about, I'll capture a scene whatever the time of day, as I'd rather have something than nothing... but golden hour photos have something special about them.

06-23-2020, 04:43 AM	#12
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	I agree with the others: it has that flat, harsh-light-in-the-middle-of-the-day look that makes it lack that extra "punch". But, well, we can't control the light. We can do our best, and this is a great composition to remember if you ever have the chance to go for a do-over. Also, there's an exclusive gallery? Huh .

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06-23-2020, 09:03 AM	#13
Photos-by-Chas Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northwest Pennsylvania, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,318 Original Poster	For those of you wishing to gain perspective on the size of Devil’s Tower, there are three adult humans in that photograph. Can you see them?

06-23-2020, 09:16 AM - 2 Likes	#14
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Serkevan I agree with the others: it has that flat, harsh-light-in-the-middle-of-the-day look that makes it lack that extra "punch". But, well, we can't control the light. We can do our best, and this is a great composition to remember if you ever have the chance to go for a do-over. Also, there's an exclusive gallery? Huh . I gave up trying to get a photo in years ago. My acceptance rate. 0% My acceptance rate here, 14 out of 15. Only one rejection. Norman Head – Artist Gallery – Pentax I look at the guys who post here... Artists – Pentax I'm happy with the situation.

06-23-2020, 10:18 AM	#15
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by normhead I gave up trying to get a photo in years ago. My acceptance rate. 0% My acceptance rate here, 14 out of 15. Only one rejection. Norman Head – Artist Gallery – Pentax I look at the guys who post here... Artists – Pentax I'm happy with the situation. And all 14 of them are gorgeous, wow .