Should we stack ND filters?

MRRiley · 11-13-2008, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by kristoffon

single polarizer = 1 stop

MOST do one stop, but many older ones do 2 stops.

MRRiley · 11-13-2008, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by raider

checked hoya website. they dont sell graduated filter.

For all practical purposes the only real choice for graduated NDs (or really ANY graduated filter) is Cokin. Only these let you move the filter up and down(or side to side) to place the graduated area where you want it in the frame. Tiffen makes similar filters but I have never seen them in a camera store and they appear to be intended for larger formats.

Tiffen and B+W both make screw-in graduated filters but you are stuck with the graduation evenly bissecting the filter. This limits your compositional freedom.

Matt Miller · 11-13-2008, 05:34 AM

Hi-Tech and Singh-Ray also make ND grads. Singh-Ray's are probably the highest quality (and price) ND grad on the market.

raider · 11-13-2008, 05:38 AM

MRRiley, are these filters
B+W 77mm Graduated Neutral Density Filter #502 - Grey- 25%
suitable for wide angle lens such as the DA14 and DA12-24?

Singh-ray filters are really expensive. Way beyond my price range.

MRRiley · 11-13-2008, 06:06 AM

Hard to tell raider. The B+W website doesnt show the 77mm available in a "wide-angle mount" so you might get some vignetting at the widest angles. You might be better off with the X series Cokin holder and filters. These are extra large and should give you enough clearance. Don't know how much those cost, but they should be comparable to the B+W's. I've always found the Cokin filters to be perfectly servicable (I use the P series ones).

Matt Miller · 11-13-2008, 06:32 AM

The B&W filters you link to would be of limited use. The best way I've found for using ND filters is to use the Cokin holder (or the Lee version) MRRiley links to. When you use this type of holder and rectangular filters, you can move the graduation line up or down in your image. With the round filters, it's always in the center.

raider · 11-13-2008, 06:47 AM

I can get Cokin filters here in Australia.

The P series are much cheaper than the Z-Pro series and the X series but I was told the P series will cause vignette problems with ultrawide lenses unless I use only 1 filter and use the ultrathin holder. Is there a need to stack filters up or I would be better off getting the X series or I can stick with the P series?

I do have the DA14 but I would like to make sure that any filters I get will be suitable for the DA12-24 too.

MRRiley · 11-13-2008, 11:26 AM

You might be able to get away with the P series and the ultrathin holder. My widest lens is the 16-45mm and the standard holder works fine with it but those extra 4mm could make a huge difference. Is there a store handy that has the P series filters and the ultrathin holder that you could try out?

One thing you might consider is to rotate the holder till the filter is sliding horizontally rather than vertically. Naturally this wouldnt work with a graduated filter if you wanted to divide the scene vertically (with the camera in landscape orientation), but for the standard square filters, might give you the latitude you need.

roentarre · 11-13-2008, 02:01 PM

One ND 8+ filter is the max you can do.

Not only vignetting can kick in badly with stacking, the image will suffer definitions and colour badly. The worst is the heavy black shadows as a result of stacking.

raider · 11-13-2008, 03:29 PM

I can't find any local shops that stock the cokin filters for me to try but there are some online stores selling the filters.

Maybe I should really get the X series. This is a very Costly exercise!

Sanglant · 11-13-2008, 05:08 PM

Bet you've already seen this link but here it is just in case :D

11-13-2008, 05:27 AM	#17
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by raider checked hoya website. they dont sell graduated filter. For all practical purposes the only real choice for graduated NDs (or really ANY graduated filter) is Cokin. Only these let you move the filter up and down(or side to side) to place the graduated area where you want it in the frame. Tiffen makes similar filters but I have never seen them in a camera store and they appear to be intended for larger formats. Tiffen and B+W both make screw-in graduated filters but you are stuck with the graduation evenly bissecting the filter. This limits your compositional freedom. Last edited by MRRiley; 11-13-2008 at 05:45 AM.

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11-13-2008, 05:24 AM	#16
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by kristoffon single polarizer = 1 stop MOST do one stop, but many older ones do 2 stops.

11-13-2008, 05:34 AM	#18
Matt Miller Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Cambridge, Iowa Photos: Gallery Posts: 339	Hi-Tech and Singh-Ray also make ND grads. Singh-Ray's are probably the highest quality (and price) ND grad on the market.

11-13-2008, 05:38 AM	#19
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989 Original Poster	MRRiley, are these filters B+W 77mm Graduated Neutral Density Filter #502 - Grey- 25% suitable for wide angle lens such as the DA14 and DA12-24? Singh-ray filters are really expensive. Way beyond my price range.

11-13-2008, 06:06 AM	#20
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Hard to tell raider. The B+W website doesnt show the 77mm available in a "wide-angle mount" so you might get some vignetting at the widest angles. You might be better off with the X series Cokin holder and filters. These are extra large and should give you enough clearance. Don't know how much those cost, but they should be comparable to the B+W's. I've always found the Cokin filters to be perfectly servicable (I use the P series ones).

11-13-2008, 06:32 AM	#21
Matt Miller Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Cambridge, Iowa Photos: Gallery Posts: 339	The B&W filters you link to would be of limited use. The best way I've found for using ND filters is to use the Cokin holder (or the Lee version) MRRiley links to. When you use this type of holder and rectangular filters, you can move the graduation line up or down in your image. With the round filters, it's always in the center.

11-13-2008, 06:47 AM	#22
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989 Original Poster	I can get Cokin filters here in Australia. The P series are much cheaper than the Z-Pro series and the X series but I was told the P series will cause vignette problems with ultrawide lenses unless I use only 1 filter and use the ultrathin holder. Is there a need to stack filters up or I would be better off getting the X series or I can stick with the P series? I do have the DA14 but I would like to make sure that any filters I get will be suitable for the DA12-24 too.

11-13-2008, 11:26 AM	#23
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	You might be able to get away with the P series and the ultrathin holder. My widest lens is the 16-45mm and the standard holder works fine with it but those extra 4mm could make a huge difference. Is there a store handy that has the P series filters and the ultrathin holder that you could try out? One thing you might consider is to rotate the holder till the filter is sliding horizontally rather than vertically. Naturally this wouldnt work with a graduated filter if you wanted to divide the scene vertically (with the camera in landscape orientation), but for the standard square filters, might give you the latitude you need.

11-13-2008, 02:01 PM	#24
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	One ND 8+ filter is the max you can do. Not only vignetting can kick in badly with stacking, the image will suffer definitions and colour badly. The worst is the heavy black shadows as a result of stacking.

11-13-2008, 03:29 PM	#25
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989 Original Poster	I can't find any local shops that stock the cokin filters for me to try but there are some online stores selling the filters. Maybe I should really get the X series. This is a very Costly exercise!

11-13-2008, 05:08 PM	#26
Sanglant Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 23	Bet you've already seen this link but here it is just in case :D

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