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09-22-2021, 08:06 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Do the math

Image size = subject size x focal length / distance

Considering you are thinking 300 mm already and a crop sensor, and you know roughly the size of people you can flip the formula around for shooting distance.

Distance = subject size x focal length / image size

For an average person they are somewhere between 1.5 and 2 meters tall. So letís allow 2 meters.

Given the landscape format is 16 mm high on the crop sensor, you would fill the frame at 37.5 meters / 40 yards.

So you would just get the shot in directly across the field, any down field distance means a longer distance / smaller image.

Ideally a 100-400 zoom would cover most of the action but a 300 prime would do pretty good as long as you can move up and down the sidelines
The issue is that the game is very dynamic, and if you're standing on a sideline or endline you will often be only a few yards from a player. The picture here is somewhat cropped, but fills the frame well enough at 55mm. 300mm or even 100mm isn't going to work.

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09-22-2021, 12:40 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
The issue is that the game is very dynamic, and if you're standing on a sideline or endline you will often be only a few yards from a player. The picture here is somewhat cropped, but fills the frame well enough at 55mm. 300mm or even 100mm isn't going to work.
The field is 100 yards long, 33 1/3 yards wide not counting end zones. The probability is that they play will not always in your face, but I agree a zoom is much more useable than a long prime.
09-23-2021, 08:27 PM - 1 Like   #18
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At some point, the players coming towards you with the 70-200 will have their feet left out in landscape orientation ... that's when you can rotate the camera to portrait mode to take some more frames, but at some point you just have to switch to the other camera with your 24-70 or whatever.

I took this picture of a visiting Terrell Owens playing an exhibition game for charity.

09-24-2021, 04:49 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
At some point, the players coming towards you with the 70-200 will have their feet left out in landscape orientation ... that's when you can rotate the camera to portrait mode to take some more frames, but at some point you just have to switch to the other camera with your 24-70 or whatever.
This is why we need a solid 5-to-500mm f/2.8 option with great corner-to-corner sharpness throughout the zoom range.


But until Pentax releases that I think I'll just stick with the K-3 Mark III and the 55-300 PLM. One camera is hard enough...

09-24-2021, 07:37 AM   #20
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Thank you all for so much valuable feedback! I had a chance to get out to the field this morning and took my 70-300 and my 18-135 to do some experimenting with the focal lengths. I am so glad I asked you fine people for advice! It would have been a disappointing game this weekend if I had just gone with the 300. I've only really used longer lenses for wildlife shots and hadn't fully considered that people are just a bit larger than birds and may fill the frame that much more. I'll readily admit I'm somewhat "distance challenged" and being 40-60 yards away seemed like a way bigger distance than it actually is once you get a lens over 100mm involved.
09-24-2021, 07:47 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbyscon Quote
Thank you all for so much valuable feedback! I had a chance to get out to the field this morning and took my 70-300 and my 18-135 to do some experimenting with the focal lengths. I am so glad I asked you fine people for advice! It would have been a disappointing game this weekend if I had just gone with the 300. I've only really used longer lenses for wildlife shots and hadn't fully considered that people are just a bit larger than birds and may fill the frame that much more. I'll readily admit I'm somewhat "distance challenged" and being 40-60 yards away seemed like a way bigger distance than it actually is once you get a lens over 100mm involved.
so any practice photos you want to share with the group ?
09-24-2021, 12:54 PM - 1 Like   #22
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Here are the photos I took to evaluate scale/distance. They're not much fun, but hopefully give a good sense of the differences in each focal length. I took a series with the DA 18-135 and another series with the Sigma 70-300. I was standing outside the fence at the bottom corner of one of the end zones, which I'd guess was about 15 yards from the sideline. The 18mm photo should give an idea of where I was in relation to the field.

I'll be sure to circle back around and post some samples from the game along with EXIF data. These were all at ISO 800 and as wide open as the lens would allow at each focal length.

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09-25-2021, 10:42 AM - 2 Likes   #23
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Samples from the game

Here's a sample from the game. I mostly used the Sigma 70-300 but did switch to the DA* 300 for a bit. As expected, the DA* resulted in much better picture quality, but made framing quite tight. The Sigma turned out some decent shots at focal lengths keeping f/4 in play. F/4.5 started being too dark. I also knew going in that the Sigma is a bit soft wide-open. The attached samples are all after quite a bit of post, of course.

Considering what I was working with, I was happy to walk away with about 30 keepers and it was a lot of fun to go out there and learn a few things! I definitely need to practice with AF on fast-moving subjects. Unfortunately, our team was very outmatched so there weren't many offensive plays to capture. Maybe next time!

Thanks again for all the feedback! I'm off to figure out which of my kids organs to sell to get a 70-200 f/2.8.
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09-25-2021, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #24
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personally

I wouldn't quibble about any of those photos

keep after it

looks like you are doing well
09-25-2021, 11:20 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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I like the pictures! Perhaps you could in the future identify situations that do not call for such a short exposure time of 1/500 s, like the two right before the snap (at least with the K-3 III you could easily double that to 1/250 and in turn halve the ISO). But don't forget to return the shutter speed to the faster one when you have taken those shots

QuoteOriginally posted by bobbyscon Quote
I'm off to figure out which of my kids organs to sell to get a 70-200 f/2.8.
The Pentax DFA* 70-200/2.8 will undoubtedly deliver the best quality, fast and silent focussing and WR, but consider buying used and perhaps have a look at used versions of Sigma and Tamron 70-200/2.8s (I own a copy of the Tamron 70-200/2.8 which I got used for a great price, but it's a bit soft wide open, though tack sharp at f/4.)

Another possibility to get a little more out of existing pictures would be a software for reducing noise. I personally use DxO PhotoLab with its so called "DeepPrime" denoising algorithm, but I've heard good things about Topaz DeNoise as well. (don't know what software you are using to edit your pictures)
09-25-2021, 11:32 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbyscon Quote
. . .Thanks again for all the feedback! I'm off to figure out which of my kids organs to sell to get a 70-200 f/2.8.

take a look at this " In Depth Review "
QuoteQuote:
HD Pentax-D FA* 70-200mm F2.8 ED DC AW
Introduction
In order to cater to professional photographers, a manufacturer must meet several requirements. In addition to a full frame body, a 70-200mm F2.8 telephoto lens is very high on the list. It is thus not very surprising that Pentax released its own version of that lens just prior to the launch of the Pentax K-1 itself.. . .

A 70-200mm lens serves many purposes, especially on full frame. It can be used for portraits (both outside and in a studio), sports, weddings, photojournalism, wildlife, concerts and shows. Such a lens also comes with high expectations. Photographers will expect a high level of optical performance, fast AF, and high reliability. . . .

In this 15-page review we will look in detail at the HD Pentax-D FA* 70-200mm, covering all its physical characteristics, features and controls, as well as fundamental aspects of its optical performance. We also perform a direct optical and real-world comparison between the Pentax lens and the Tamron 70-200mm. How good is the D FA* lens alongside its main competitor?

Next: Specifications

Page 1 of 15 | Last Page
HD Pentax-D FA* 70-200mm F2.8 ED DC AW Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

consider renting one before buying

QuoteQuote:
Information on Businesses that offer cameras and lenses for rent
Information on Businesses that offer cameras and lenses for rent - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com
09-25-2021, 11:44 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
I like the pictures! Perhaps you could in the future identify situations that do not call for such a short exposure time of 1/500 s, like the two right before the snap (at least with the K-3 III you could easily double that to 1/250 and in turn halve the ISO). But don't forget to return the shutter speed to the faster one when you have taken those shots

The Pentax DFA* 70-200/2.8 will undoubtedly deliver the best quality, fast and silent focussing and WR, but consider buying used and perhaps have a look at used versions of Sigma and Tamron 70-200/2.8s (I own a copy of the Tamron 70-200/2.8 which I got used for a great price, but it's a bit soft wide open, though tack sharp at f/4.)

Another possibility to get a little more out of existing pictures would be a software for reducing noise. I personally use DxO PhotoLab with its so called "DeepPrime" denoising algorithm, but I've heard good things about Topaz DeNoise as well. (don't know what software you are using to edit your pictures)
Thanks! I had thought about shortening exposure time (after the fact, of course), but there is usually very little time between lining up for the snap and the fun that comes after the snap. Maybe I could put some presets to good use and set one up for fast-pace and the other for slow-pace.

A D FA* would be wonderful, but even used are selling for well above my currently justifiable amount. I've been bouncing back and forth between the Sigma 70-200, Tamron 70-200, and FA* 80-200 options. I've also been considering the DA* 50-135 and 60-250 f/4.

I used DarkTable to minimally process the DNG file, then Gimp to edit levels/contrast/saturation. I used a plugin for Gimp called G'MIC which has a smooth setting that seemed to help with the noise. (And all of the above was free!) Although the Topaz option only being $80 seems like it might be worth the investment.
09-25-2021, 02:04 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbyscon Quote
. . . A D FA* would be wonderful, but even used are selling for well above my currently justifiable amount. . . .
be sure to keep an eye on the forums' market place " buy/sell "

it can sorted by country

The Pentax Marketplace | Buy & Sell Pentax Cameras and Lenses (United States) - PentaxForums.com

you might get lucky

and you can place a " want ad " if you want

Wanted Items - PentaxForums.com

Last edited by aslyfox; 09-25-2021 at 06:13 PM.
09-26-2021, 07:24 AM - 1 Like   #29
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I can highly recommend the FA* 80-200 from past experience. The da* 50-135 is lovely also, fantastic in fact. You may want to screw drive convert a bad sdm copy for a killer option. It also pairs well with the 1.4x converter. The 60-250 is also fantastic. The da*ís mentioned are pretty sharp wide open. The sdm speed is not instant but Iíve had little issue with it. If 135mm is close enough Iíd get the 50-135 in screw drive and be happy. With the money saved you could get a second body (maybe a k3 or k5ii) and Mount the 300 and have both ready.
09-26-2021, 10:23 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
This is why we need a solid 5-to-500mm f/2.8 option with great corner-to-corner sharpness throughout the zoom range.
Well, no camera manufacturer can do that.

A second camera is a huge advantage, and can simply be an older one anyone already owns.

Last edited by clackers; 09-26-2021 at 10:29 PM.
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