photographing with snow as background - suggestions sought

**aslyfox** · 10-08-2021, 10:10 AM - **1 Like**

found it

You Tube

**luftfluss** · 10-08-2021, 10:19 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pepperberry farm

yeah, but my tiny little reptilian brain stem, with no film-training.....

When I first started with my (digital) photography, it did seem counter-intuitive to have to bunp up my exposure compensation, so you're not the only one...

Years ago I explained how this worked to a fairly new-ish camera user who spent a lot of $$ on a Canon 5D setup, but he didn't believe me and felt the problem lay with my "inferior" Pentax gear... it was only when other Canon users said the same thing I did that he came 'round.

**UncleVanya** · 10-08-2021, 10:28 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by luftfluss

When I first started with my (digital) photography, it did seem counter-intuitive to have to bunp up my exposure compensation, so you're not the only one...

Years ago I explained how this worked to a fairly new-ish camera user who spent a lot of $$ on a Canon 5D setup, but he didn't believe me and felt the problem lay with my "inferior" Pentax gear... it was only when other Canon users said the same thing I did that he came 'round.

The irony is that the non-flagship level cameras like the K-50 or K-70 have scene modes that probably already correct this if you want to use them. My OMD-EM1 I think has it - not every flagship removes this kind of feature.

**robgski** · 10-08-2021, 10:57 AM

“ she is staying warm back in Kansas”

Relatively warmer , that is.

I encourage you to consider using a CPL, both to reduce snow glare and lens flare and to cut reflection if you are shooting through windows.

I look forward to seeing the results.

**aslyfox** · 10-08-2021, 11:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by robgski

“ she is staying warm back in Kansas”

Relatively warmer , that is. . . .

prediction for temperatures for when I will be in Jackson:

Jackson WY high 28 o F [ - 2.2 o C ], low 7 o F [ - 13.8 o C ]

Topeka KS high 43 o F [ 6.1 o C ], low 23 o F [ -5 o C ]

" layers, layers, layers "

funny I have to hope for plenty of snow in Yellowstone

my tour into Yellowstone is scheduled for the 16th of December

Quote:

2021-2022 Winter Opening Dates
Conditions permitting, roads will open to oversnow travel by snowmobile and snowcoach at 8 am on the following dates:

December 15: West Entrance to Old Faithful, Mammoth to Old Faithful, Canyon to Norris, Canyon to Lake, Old Faithful to West Thumb, South Entrance to Lake, Lake to Lake Butte Overlook, East Entrance to Lake Butte Overlook (Sylvan Pass)

https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/parkroads.htm

KiloHotelphoto · 10-08-2021, 01:34 PM

I was there last month and it snowed on September 19th in parts of the park. Got about 4 inches east of Yellowstone lake and two to three SW of Mammoth. I know that's nothing for out there but for the middle of September it's not bad.

**mlag** · 10-08-2021, 01:43 PM - **1 Like**

In addition to the other mentioned methods : when making pictures of people or objects against a backdrop of snow, I tend also to reduce the AE metering zone(s) to centered metering (or even spot) , hence taking more into account your subject and less the wider snow background (assuming your main subject is more or less central in the frame).

**dms** · 10-08-2021, 03:22 PM

If the snow is relatively fresh, and the important part pf the scene is lit similarly to the snow, probably safest is spot meter the snow and increase the exposure by 2 to 2.5 stops [~90% reflectance--> 45% (1 stop) --> 22% (2 stops) --> 11% (3 stops), but digital sensor does well when overexposed]. Look at the results, and make minor adjustments.

The main thing is not to meter the entire scene, when lots of snow is present, without making an adjustment. After a little practice doing a weighted average reading with a minor adjustment may become second nature.

If you have the time do a spot metering of snow and center weighted reading, and think about the differences/get used to using either method. Also setting an exposure compensation and using aperture priority (auto) exposure is the fastest. Spot metering fresh snow likely the safest. I would suggest you not use matrix metering (multi-segment metering).

So it is not a "black box" approach, the basis is that the exposure is set so a middle gray looks that way and bright surface look bright and dark surfaces dark.There is a difference of opinion/technique about the choice of middle gray. Anywhere from 10% to 18%, and I favor/believe most meters use 10--12%, and that is what i used above.

rpjallan · 10-09-2021, 05:18 AM

The way I meter when there is a very bright white in the picture (snow, very white clouds, a bright white wall etc.) is to set exposure compensation to +3 & spot meter from the highlight. You should be able to try/test this before you go away. Bracketing is also useful in tricky situations. I read an article about this many years ago (can’t remember which magazine) and the writer was using a Pentax. I remember this because they specified 3 stops for Pentax cameras but to do your own testing for other brands. I had a *ist D at the time.

Parallax · 10-09-2021, 05:58 AM

EV compensation of +2 stops usually does it, but if the sun is reflecting off of the snow from directly in front of you you may need 3 or more.
Alternatively, use an incident light meter.

**robgski** · 10-10-2021, 06:54 AM

I often start with Av mode and look at results, then switch to Manual and adjust settings accordingly. In snowfall conditions meter foe the object, in sunny spots after snow meter for the snow, which often acts as a giant reflector on the subject’s features

Take-5-JB · 10-21-2021, 07:47 PM

I set my Functions to back buttons so they don't change when I depress the shutter release. You can check gray by using a rock or tree trunk if you don't have a standard gray card. Use center spot metering, manually set EV +2 or +3, try a CPL, and/or work in manual. Keep track of what works when you get dialed in and save the settings so you don't have to do it all each day.

Enjoy the opportunities.

JB

**aslyfox** · 10-31-2021, 12:51 PM

For my upcoming trip to the Grand Tetons and Yellowstone NPs in mid December

Vintage Ushanka Mink fur hat - black

Made in Russia rag says CCCP

I also have a Ushanka Rabbit fur hat - brown - purchased during a 1977-1978 trip to the Soviet Union

bertwert · 11-08-2021, 10:17 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by bertwert

Stick exposure compensation up a stop or two - play around to see what works.

Generally the camera's metering system will underexpose with snow making it look grey. So to keep it white, overexpose (or pull up exposure in post).

Reference shot from this morning. Using multi-segment metering and exposure compensation of +2EV, looks about right to me. Of course, this varies with amount of snow in the frame, brightness of the sky, other subjects, metering pattern, etc etc

**hjoseph7** · 11-08-2021, 11:30 AM

Allot of modern cameras especially the ones with some type of matrix metering already take into account Bright backgrounds so you might not have to do anything depending on your camera. Still, I would Auto Bracket just in case.

10-08-2021, 11:58 AM - 1 Like	#20
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,583 Original Poster	Originally posted by robgski “ she is staying warm back in Kansas” Relatively warmer , that is. . . . prediction for temperatures for when I will be in Jackson: Jackson WY high 28 o F [ - 2.2 o C ], low 7 o F [ - 13.8 o C ] Topeka KS high 43 o F [ 6.1 o C ], low 23 o F [ -5 o C ] " layers, layers, layers " funny I have to hope for plenty of snow in Yellowstone my tour into Yellowstone is scheduled for the 16th of December Quote: 2021-2022 Winter Opening Dates Conditions permitting, roads will open to oversnow travel by snowmobile and snowcoach at 8 am on the following dates: December 15: West Entrance to Old Faithful, Mammoth to Old Faithful, Canyon to Norris, Canyon to Lake, Old Faithful to West Thumb, South Entrance to Lake, Lake to Lake Butte Overlook, East Entrance to Lake Butte Overlook (Sylvan Pass) https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/parkroads.htm Last edited by aslyfox; 10-08-2021 at 12:06 PM.

10-08-2021, 03:22 PM	#23
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	If the snow is relatively fresh, and the important part pf the scene is lit similarly to the snow, probably safest is spot meter the snow and increase the exposure by 2 to 2.5 stops [~90% reflectance--> 45% (1 stop) --> 22% (2 stops) --> 11% (3 stops), but digital sensor does well when overexposed]. Look at the results, and make minor adjustments. The main thing is not to meter the entire scene, when lots of snow is present, without making an adjustment. After a little practice doing a weighted average reading with a minor adjustment may become second nature. If you have the time do a spot metering of snow and center weighted reading, and think about the differences/get used to using either method. Also setting an exposure compensation and using aperture priority (auto) exposure is the fastest. Spot metering fresh snow likely the safest. I would suggest you not use matrix metering (multi-segment metering). So it is not a "black box" approach, the basis is that the exposure is set so a middle gray looks that way and bright surface look bright and dark surfaces dark.There is a difference of opinion/technique about the choice of middle gray. Anywhere from 10% to 18%, and I favor/believe most meters use 10--12%, and that is what i used above. Last edited by dms; 10-08-2021 at 03:30 PM.

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10-08-2021, 10:19 AM - 1 Like	#17
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	Originally posted by pepperberry farm yeah, but my tiny little reptilian brain stem, with no film-training..... When I first started with my (digital) photography, it did seem counter-intuitive to have to bunp up my exposure compensation, so you're not the only one... Years ago I explained how this worked to a fairly new-ish camera user who spent a lot of $$ on a Canon 5D setup, but he didn't believe me and felt the problem lay with my "inferior" Pentax gear... it was only when other Canon users said the same thing I did that he came 'round.

10-08-2021, 10:28 AM - 1 Like	#18
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,459	Originally posted by luftfluss When I first started with my (digital) photography, it did seem counter-intuitive to have to bunp up my exposure compensation, so you're not the only one... Years ago I explained how this worked to a fairly new-ish camera user who spent a lot of $$ on a Canon 5D setup, but he didn't believe me and felt the problem lay with my "inferior" Pentax gear... it was only when other Canon users said the same thing I did that he came 'round. The irony is that the non-flagship level cameras like the K-50 or K-70 have scene modes that probably already correct this if you want to use them. My OMD-EM1 I think has it - not every flagship removes this kind of feature.

10-08-2021, 10:57 AM	#19
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,817	“ she is staying warm back in Kansas” Relatively warmer , that is. I encourage you to consider using a CPL, both to reduce snow glare and lens flare and to cut reflection if you are shooting through windows. I look forward to seeing the results.

10-08-2021, 01:34 PM	#21
KiloHotelphoto Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Glen Mills, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,030	I was there last month and it snowed on September 19th in parts of the park. Got about 4 inches east of Yellowstone lake and two to three SW of Mammoth. I know that's nothing for out there but for the middle of September it's not bad.

10-08-2021, 01:43 PM - 1 Like	#22
mlag Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Zuiderkempen - Grote Netewoud - Belgium Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,410	In addition to the other mentioned methods : when making pictures of people or objects against a backdrop of snow, I tend also to reduce the AE metering zone(s) to centered metering (or even spot) , hence taking more into account your subject and less the wider snow background (assuming your main subject is more or less central in the frame).

10-09-2021, 05:18 AM	#24
rpjallan Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,002	The way I meter when there is a very bright white in the picture (snow, very white clouds, a bright white wall etc.) is to set exposure compensation to +3 & spot meter from the highlight. You should be able to try/test this before you go away. Bracketing is also useful in tricky situations. I read an article about this many years ago (can’t remember which magazine) and the writer was using a Pentax. I remember this because they specified 3 stops for Pentax cameras but to do your own testing for other brands. I had a *ist D at the time.

10-09-2021, 05:58 AM	#25
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	EV compensation of +2 stops usually does it, but if the sun is reflecting off of the snow from directly in front of you you may need 3 or more. Alternatively, use an incident light meter.

10-10-2021, 06:54 AM	#26
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,817	I often start with Av mode and look at results, then switch to Manual and adjust settings accordingly. In snowfall conditions meter foe the object, in sunny spots after snow meter for the snow, which often acts as a giant reflector on the subject’s features

10-21-2021, 07:47 PM	#27
Take-5-JB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 236	I set my Functions to back buttons so they don't change when I depress the shutter release. You can check gray by using a rock or tree trunk if you don't have a standard gray card. Use center spot metering, manually set EV +2 or +3, try a CPL, and/or work in manual. Keep track of what works when you get dialed in and save the settings so you don't have to do it all each day. Enjoy the opportunities. JB

11-08-2021, 10:17 AM - 1 Like	#29
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,172	Originally posted by bertwert Stick exposure compensation up a stop or two - play around to see what works. Generally the camera's metering system will underexpose with snow making it look grey. So to keep it white, overexpose (or pull up exposure in post). Reference shot from this morning. Using multi-segment metering and exposure compensation of +2EV, looks about right to me. Of course, this varies with amount of snow in the frame, brightness of the sky, other subjects, metering pattern, etc etc

11-08-2021, 11:30 AM	#30
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,048	Allot of modern cameras especially the ones with some type of matrix metering already take into account Bright backgrounds so you might not have to do anything depending on your camera. Still, I would Auto Bracket just in case.