[augustmoon]

OK, so don't make fun of me, or if you do, then go ahead and be done with it...

I live at the beach in San Diego, and I spend part of the spring and summer in Toronto.. But this winter I'll be in Toronto (hmm, can't figure out which one of those smiley icons to use here)

I got some glove liners that fit inside my ski mittens that have good tactile feel and I already tried them out with my camera and I can use the controls I need to, and they're pretty warm. Got this microfleece thingy that fits over my entire head and face except my eyes, now looking for something that covers the eyes up too. And some super high-tech long johns. Not sure if my surf shorts will look weird over that or if I should invest in some jeans or long pants as well.

But for the important part... Shooting in that climate...


1) Any temperature rules? I'm assuming if it's really BF'n Cold (don't know what that is in Celsius. In San Diego in the winter it sometimes drops down into Somewhat Chilly - that's in Fahrenheit though) I wouldn't want to go out and shoot anyway, and most likely if it's fairly scenic after it snows or after an ice storm, then the temperatures are usually more mild as well. But any thing I should avoid?

2) SD card performance? and OK to open the hatch?

3) Lenses, will older M, K lenses hold up better, or better to use them than to risk an FA ltd? I do have my DA*zooms as well, I know they are sealed, but not freeze-proof?

What would be the risk of damage to a lens anyway? What about condensation inside the elements?

4) Changing lenses to be avoided? to avoid condensation inside the camera?

5) how to adjust the camera from warm to cold (very warm inside the apartment building my wife says, she's been there in winter many o'times) and more so from cold to warm to avoid moisture condensation and other junk?

6) regular old sling pack OK?, or is there a nordic gore-tex version with polartec microfleece, or a fleece camera cozy?

7) missing something else?

8) what do you shoot? Hoping for some nice tree branches with snow or ice on them against a snowy backdrop, not sure what else there is. Cars stuck on the side of the road, little old ladies slipping on icy sidewalks? I'm sure the puppies and little kids enjoy it. Does everything come out gray and dreary if the lighting is gray and dreary?

[adamkean]

Hey, welcome back to Ontario. I live not far from Toronto, and have quite a bit of experience shooting in the cool, cold, and really cold. This winter is supposed to be about average temperatures, February might be a bit colder than normal, but we shouldn't have too many days of colder than minus 15 celsius.


1) Any temperature rules? I'm assuming if it's really BF'n Cold (don't know what that is in Celsius. In San Diego in the winter it sometimes drops down into Somewhat Chilly - that's in Fahrenheit though) I wouldn't want to go out and shoot anyway, and most likely if it's fairly scenic after it snows or after an ice storm, then the temperatures are usually more mild as well. But any thing I should avoid?

As far as temperature rules go, I don't have any that I use. The one thing that might be more important to consider is humidity. It can be 90% humidity at minus 5, just like it could be at plus 25. With the cold, you need to allow some time for the camera to adjust between indoor and ambient temperature, this can take longer if humid




2) SD card performance? and OK to open the hatch?

My experience is no loss in performance, and OK to open the hatch, unless its snowing its just like the rain. I am very pro-active in having fully charged batteries, and also I keep them warm (in pockets) if I need to switch. Some say that cold batteries may slow SD card performance, in addition to fps, af, etc


3) Lenses, will older M, K lenses hold up better, or better to use them than to risk an FA ltd? I do have my DA*zooms as well, I know they are sealed, but not freeze-proof?

I have used my FA 50/1.4 in very cold weather with no issues. I imagine the DA* would be even safer, but I think its a very, very low risk of damage

What would be the risk of damage to a lens anyway? What about condensation inside the elements?

I'm not sure, I haven't experienced any damage from condensation. You will get some fogging, but it goes away when the lens warms back up inside


4) Changing lenses to be avoided? to avoid condensation inside the camera?

If there is no precipitation, then I don't worry about changing lenses out in the cold.


5) how to adjust the camera from warm to cold (very warm inside the apartment building my wife says, she's been there in winter many o'times) and more so from cold to warm to avoid moisture condensation and other junk?

There is no need to 'adjust' going from warm to cold, but when going cold to warm, just let it sit for 20 minutes on a counter and everything should naturally equalize, with any minor fogging clearing up on its own.

6) regular old sling pack OK?, or is there a nordic gore-tex version with polartec microfleece, or a fleece camera cozy?

I prefer a regular sling pack, if your camera bag is insulated in anyway, each time you put it back in, no longer exposed from the cold, its like going from outdoors -> indoors each time, to a much lesser extent thou. I prefer to just have it in a bag that is the same temperature as the air.


7) missing something else?

I think that covers everything

8) what do you shoot? Hoping for some nice tree branches with snow or ice on them against a snowy backdrop, not sure what else there is. Cars stuck on the side of the road, little old ladies slipping on icy sidewalks? I'm sure the puppies and little kids enjoy it. Does everything come out gray and dreary if the lighting is gray and dreary?

I like to shoot the edges of ponds, lakes, puddles, etc to get interesting shots of the ice. I also shoot skating rinks, abandoned 'summer' things that get partially covered up in the snow to stir up a contrast of seasons (like a teeter totter half burried in the snow, the other half exposed, etc)



Be sure to post what you do!

cheers,
adam

[LeoTaylor]

I live about 8 hours Southwest of Toronto and have similar weather. We occasionally dip below -15 C (5 F). Just last night we hit -10 C (13 F)!

I don't do all the precautions I read about on this forum. Perhaps it is because we are dry outside and inside during the winter even though we have a body of water to our South just like Toronto. When I come inside I do leave the camera sitting without a lens cap just in case. Some people on this forum resort to plastic bags, desiccant, and so on to control humidity.

I have been in Toronto when the wind off Lake Ontario made it FEEL colder then Connecticut.

[Lowell Goudge]

OK, so don't make fun of me, or if you do, then go ahead and be done with it...

I live at the beach in San Diego, and I spend part of the spring and summer in Toronto.. But this winter I'll be in Toronto (hmm, can't figure out which one of those smiley icons to use here)

I got some glove liners that fit inside my ski mittens that have good tactile feel and I already tried them out with my camera and I can use the controls I need to, and they're pretty warm. Got this microfleece thingy that fits over my entire head and face except my eyes, now looking for something that covers the eyes up too. And some super high-tech long johns. Not sure if my surf shorts will look weird over that or if I should invest in some jeans or long pants as well.

But for the important part... Shooting in that climate...


1) Any temperature rules? I'm assuming if it's really BF'n Cold (don't know what that is in Celsius. In San Diego in the winter it sometimes drops down into Somewhat Chilly - that's in Fahrenheit though) I wouldn't want to go out and shoot anyway, and most likely if it's fairly scenic after it snows or after an ice storm, then the temperatures are usually more mild as well. But any thing I should avoid?

2) SD card performance? and OK to open the hatch?

3) Lenses, will older M, K lenses hold up better, or better to use them than to risk an FA ltd? I do have my DA*zooms as well, I know they are sealed, but not freeze-proof?

What would be the risk of damage to a lens anyway? What about condensation inside the elements?

4) Changing lenses to be avoided? to avoid condensation inside the camera?

5) how to adjust the camera from warm to cold (very warm inside the apartment building my wife says, she's been there in winter many o'times) and more so from cold to warm to avoid moisture condensation and other junk?

6) regular old sling pack OK?, or is there a nordic gore-tex version with polartec microfleece, or a fleece camera cozy?

7) missing something else?

8) what do you shoot? Hoping for some nice tree branches with snow or ice on them against a snowy backdrop, not sure what else there is. Cars stuck on the side of the road, little old ladies slipping on icy sidewalks? I'm sure the puppies and little kids enjoy it. Does everything come out gray and dreary if the lighting is gray and dreary?

Normally I consider it sport to re-enforce the concept that canada is a frozen wasteland, but the rules for cold weather have not change in 30 years.

Most important is to allow temperature stabalization before changing lenses eithe indoors or out.

All other points are marginal at best in toronto, it's not really allthat cold here

[magnum1]

I live 100 miles NORTH of Green Bay WI. You know, the Frozen Tundra.

Anway, I just make sure I put my equipment in a warm up zone after shooting in the cold. I small entryway that isn't heated.

The only thing I make sure to do is have a bunch of charged batteries. They drain faster than in warm climates.

[arbutusq]

One other thing is that lithium AA's last a lot longer in the cold than Nimh batteries if you're using a KXXX.

[augustmoon]

Hey, welcome back to Ontario. I live not far from Toronto, and have quite a bit of experience shooting in the cool, cold, and really cold. This winter is supposed to be about average temperatures, February might be a bit colder than normal, but we shouldn't have too many days of colder than minus 15 celsius.

Thanks, I've enjoyed the Springs and Summers I've spent around there, I won't be working, so hoping I can find places to go even though it's winter.

As far as temperature rules go, I don't have any that I use. The one thing that might be more important to consider is humidity. It can be 90% humidity at minus 5, just like it could be at plus 25. With the cold, you need to allow some time for the camera to adjust between indoor and ambient temperature, this can take longer if humid

Yes, see, this is exactly the kind of helpful info I was hoping to come across, being concerned with overall temperature, I wasn't even thinking about humidity. I would imagine that cold and humid is more of a problem than cold and dry in regards to moisture problems and taking time to adjust (makes sense now that it is mentioned).

I am very pro-active in having fully charged batteries, and also I keep them warm (in pockets) if I need to switch. Some say that cold batteries may slow SD card performance, in addition to fps, af, etc

Yes, I've heard about batteries not being as efficient and weaker when it's colder. I have extra Lithium battery packs, which I'll keep inside my jacket.

You will get some fogging, but it goes away when the lens warms back up inside. There is no need to 'adjust' going from warm to cold, but when going cold to warm, just let it sit for 20 minutes on a counter and everything should naturally equalize, with any minor fogging clearing up on its own.

I'll assume not to change lenses or mess with it during this phase...

I like to shoot the edges of ponds, lakes, puddles, etc to get interesting shots of the ice. I also shoot skating rinks, abandoned 'summer' things that get partially covered up in the snow to stir up a contrast of seasons (like a teeter totter half burried in the snow, the other half exposed, etc)

cheers,
adam

Thanks Adam for the good info and photo ideas.

I live about 8 hours Southwest of Toronto and have similar weather. We occasionally dip below -15 C (5 F). Just last night we hit -10 C (13 F)!

I don't do all the precautions I read about on this forum. Perhaps it is because we are dry outside and inside during the winter even though we have a body of water to our South just like Toronto. When I come inside I do leave the camera sitting without a lens cap just in case. Some people on this forum resort to plastic bags, desiccant, and so on to control humidity.

I have been in Toronto when the wind off Lake Ontario made it FEEL colder then Connecticut.

I'm sure dry makes it easier, I've been skiing in Utah where it's very dry and it didn't feel nearly as cold as what the thermometer read.

Normally I consider it sport to re-enforce the concept that canada is a frozen wasteland, but the rules for cold weather have not change in 30 years.

Most important is to allow temperature stabalization before changing lenses eithe indoors or out.

All other points are marginal at best in toronto, it's not really allthat cold here

I thought that maybe the rules would have changed in the last 30 years, with the digital sensor and all the electronic doo-dads (how did you know that it was 30 years ago was the last time I was in snow with my camera - Pentax MX?) But the MX only needed the batteries for the meter, and for some reason, I wasn't too concerned with the camera and lenses back then, although I still have 2 of my lenses from that time, (M50 1.4, M100 2.8) and they still work. Can't remember if it was fogged for a while or not.

I wouldn't call Toronto Frozen Wasteland, but in heading to Montreal for New Years with the in-laws, I'm sure I'll get my fill on the way there!

I live 100 miles NORTH of Green Bay WI. You know, the Frozen Tundra.

Anway, I just make sure I put my equipment in a warm up zone after shooting in the cold. I small entryway that isn't heated.

The only thing I make sure to do is have a bunch of charged batteries. They drain faster than in warm climates.

That's funny, I never noticed that there was anything north of Green Bay, let alone 100 miles north!

One other thing is that lithium AA's last a lot longer in the cold than Nimh batteries if you're using a KXXX.

I have K20D, and I have 3 battery packs. I'm not sure how much quicker they will deplete, but I'm thinking that will be enough for 1 day, especially since I can't imagine being outside all day long like when it's summer, and then 1 pack lasts me pretty much the whole day, maybe 1 and a half. I also have the battery vertical grip, I know it wont keep the second battery warmer than in my pocket, but now thinking to bring it, because there would be more of the camera to grab onto, and much easier if I did want to take a vertical shot???

[Lowell Goudge]

In looking at all the responses, and having a laugh at a few of them, I think the most critical point still is the issue of temperature stabalization.

Battery performance (life) does go down in the cold, and what you need to be very certain of, is that when you change batteries (or lenses) is that the camera has stabalized at what ever temperature it stabalizes at in the environment.

that way there is no undue condensation, and this is especially true of lens removal. Just try entering a greenhouse in january, coming in from -20C (-4F) Even if you drive to the greenhouse in your car, upon entering everything foggs up and is coated with condensate. In some ways, the new cameras are much better. the glass is about all that foggs, due to extensive use of plastics with low thermal mass, In the old days my KX would be soaking wet. If youo think changing lenses is bad now, try changing film and exposing the shutter directly to all the humidity.

Going the other way is not as bad, because with the extreme cold, the air is usually quite dry in comparison, so all you really need to worry about is blowing snow.

[k100d]

carry spare batteries inside a jacket pocket close to your body to keep it warm

edit: muahaha welcome back, you'll wish you were back in San Diego in no time!

[reeftool]

I live in northern NY and a similar climate to Toronto. I haven't had any problems with my K10D in cold weather. Its possible to get some condensation on the lens when going in and out from a heated place, the same thing you will notice if you wear glasses, so if your glasses fog up (if you wear them) assume the same thing will happen to your camera. I've been outside below 0F and the camera worked. The controls are usable with light gloves but I have had problems pushing the shutter button with thick gloves on. When its bitter cold, I usually quit long before the camera is affected. The batterys last longer than I do also but if the camera is outside a long time a spare battery is good to have along.

[augustmoon]

carry spare batteries inside a jacket pocket close to your body to keep it warm

edit: muahaha welcome back, you'll wish you were back in San Diego in no time!

Oh yes, thank you, Toronto not a bad place, except for the weather extremes. Lots of friendly Pentaxians there.

It will be 22c here today, and I'm on my way to the beach, can't do that in Toronto in winter. But I am looking forward to being in Old Montreal for the holidays and New Year. That's where I'm hoping to be able to get out and have some photo ops. I found a new-in-box ZX-5 in my storage locker I bought in 1996 and forgot about, I saw your other thread about your NY trip, so I'll have to bring the film camera along, never used a 35mm film camera with really good lenses (FA ltd) before, so maybe that will be fun.

I live in northern NY and a similar climate to Toronto....but I have had problems pushing the shutter button with thick gloves on. When its bitter cold, I usually quit long before the camera is affected. The batterys last longer than I do also but if the camera is outside a long time a spare battery is good to have along.

Ha, I was in Buffalo for 1 day in Oct 2007, but got wound up staying for 4 days because of a blizzard, didn't even have a coat with me. (was only October)

Something tells me I won't be lasting as long as my batteries as well. I'm thinking I probably won't be heading out with my camera as often as I'm used to being able to.... Hoping for some of those days where it has just snowed and stopped and there's no wind and it feels really mild out and everyone's outside enjoying it, but I probably watch too much tv.

[Lowell Goudge]

Ha, I was in Buffalo for 1 day in Oct 2007, but got wound up staying for 4 days because of a blizzard, didn't even have a coat with me. (was only October)

your only mistake was visiting a city where no matter what direction the wind blows from, it comes of a great lake
At least we torontonians were smart enough to build our city where the predominant wind is off shore not on shore

[mutedphotos]

I do a fair amount of late night long-exposure shots in the middle of winter. The cold temperatures can actually be a benefit in that it keeps sensor heat down, reducing noise in the image.

Generally I've never done anything different when out in the summer or winter. Depending on the conditions you may want to carry a plastic bag with you to put the camera in when you go inside to keep it from fogging up. Keep it in the bag until it warms up.

Also, if you're battery dies early from the cold, if you take it out and warm it up by breathing or rubbing on it, you can get a good chunk of life back. Useful if you just need a few extra shots before calling it a night.

[George Lama]

Only thing I would add to this is after you allow your equipment to warm up in a non-heated area, make sure all your equipment is dry before storing.

Basically, don't just come from the freezing cold/snowy weather, bag it or put it in your hermetically sealed pelican case, and forget about it until the spring thaw. Last thing you want is to seal the humidity in there.

After patting it dry if necessary, either
a) let the equipment sit on a table/desk over a couple of days to dry out completely (my home is typically 27-35% dry in winter - ugh) or
b) bag it with a handful of dessicant packs I save from product packaging.

Cheap and easy, and so far it works quite well

[augustmoon]

Generally I've never done anything different when out in the summer or winter. Depending on the conditions you may want to carry a plastic bag with you to put the camera in when you go inside to keep it from fogging up. Keep it in the bag until it warms up.

so this bag should be outside at the same temp as your camera? Does it stay sealed when it is outside to avoid getting wet?

Only thing I would add to this is after you allow your equipment to warm up in a non-heated area, make sure all your equipment is dry before storing.

Basically, don't just come from the freezing cold/snowy weather, bag it or put it in your hermetically sealed pelican case, and forget about it until the spring thaw. Last thing you want is to seal the humidity in there.

After patting it dry if necessary, either
a) let the equipment sit on a table/desk over a couple of days to dry out completely (my home is typically 27-35% dry in winter - ugh) or
b) bag it with a handful of dessicant packs I save from product packaging.

Our apartment is kept rather warm (by the superintendent) and there isn't anywhere in the apartment that isn't heated (like an entryway, mudroom, etc)

is 27-35% dry? If it's dry, my wife will have all the humidifiers going at once! Dryness is her pet peeve.

Now, the closet, with all the clothes hanging in it, is probably the driest part of the place (a fairly roomy closet), and with the doors closed probably the least warm. Maybe I'll set the equipment in there with some dessicant packs. What about those jars of stuff like Damp-Rid? Not sure how toxic they are. Maybe I can set up a small dehumidifier in the closet? (as I have other items sensitive to excess humidity)

Thanks for everyone's time and replies, it's been very helpful so far! Always better getting tips than learning from mistakes.