[biz-engineer]

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Almost a year passed, since I opened a thread looking for solutions to stitch seascape panoramas including waves in motion.

How to stitch panorama of waves - PentaxForums.com

There were some interesting ideas, mostly with compromises:
- either via long exposures to blur motion well enough so that stitches are seamless, limited to really slow shutter speeds
- or panning the camera really quick in burst mode, limited to really fast shutter speeds
- making a wide shoot with desired shutter speed to record the overall scene, and make a series of quick panoramic exposures for the details, merge frames with masking some areas of frames, revealing other areas

Possible but not ideal.

So I found a better solution. Since I happen to have two K1 bodies after getting a K1 II, I thought "what if I was firing the two cameras simultaneously?", cameras mounted side to side to capture two exposures, stitching images in post.

Pros of shooting two cameras simultaneously:
- No need to spend money, I already have the cameras and lenses (although I would prefer to match two 70-210 f4 lenses)
- Arca-swiss parts are relatively inexpensive for the assembly (at least compared to the price of cameras/lenses)
- Possibility to shoot squarish format, 4:3, 5:4, 1:1 , with one camera on top of the other, that would make a total frame of about ~40 mm x 36 mm
- Possibility to shoot extra wide, with camera side-by-side horizontal orientation, that would make a total frame of about ~60 mm x 24 mm , pretty cool 3:1 kinda X-PAN aspect ration in one shoot
- Possibility to use all camera modes regardless shooting situation (pixel shift, astro etc etc..)

Cons of shooting two cameras simultaneously:
- Heavy setup, tripod, arca-swiss rig, twice the weight of camera+lens, more gear to bring on location (but if the shoot is important, it can be worth the effort)
- Using ND/ND grad filters is a pain (requires two kits, one kit on each lens)
- Requires some time to adjust two cameras instead of adjusting settings for one camera only, need to adjust two lenses for field of view and focus
- Parallax error of near objects can cause problems for aligning frames, because side-by-side cameras can't be physically located at the same optical center.

Solving the problem with parallax error:
- I though of using mirrors at 90 degree angle, so that the cameras would be shooting from the same virtual point... but I gave up on this, turned out it's not possible theoretically, but... I haven't actually tried, so maybe my conclusion is wrong. Anyway, using two camera for a shoot would catch attention of people around, but that would be nothing in comparison with a dual camera setup with offset mirrors. So even if that would work in practice, it would need to be an Ansel Adams to do this kind of setup in public.
- So I decided I would only use one of the two cameras to capture the foreground, and shoot two cameras for the mid-ground and distant scenery

Solving the problem of simultaneous shutters:
- I experimented with the interval shooting mode of the K1s, programmed the same trig time in the interval settings. That didn't work because, to my best efforts to set camera clock at the exact same clock time, the cameras own clocks aren't in sync, easily firing up to one second apart.
- I also enabled the GPS with enable GPS clock sync, but I found that GPS clock time wasn't even exactly the same on both cameras (interesting, how can this be?) , plus the GPS clock sync doesn't seem to sync the camera clocks at all... so I gave up on this.
- I've tried to use my IR remote trigger, and it's able to trigger both camera shutters fairly close in time, within 1/10th of a second (according to the tests I've done) but, it's not 100% reliable, sometime each camera will not IR trigger at the same time. Plus IR doesn't work well or doesn't work at all if the camera IR sensors aren't next to each other, so it would require a mirror, practically bad.
- I've looked at using a camera cable release 2.5mm jack type (I don't have one, I'd have to buy one), yes, but I haven't found a "stereo" cable release able to trigger two cameras, and I've found a multi-camera trigger box online it can trigger many cameras within 0.0003 s. accuracy but it costs $2000 or something like that, I thought "forget about this".
- I thought about using radio triggers, now, the question would be if two radio receiver (one on each camera) can be paired to the same transceiver and trigger both camera shutters at the same time?

So, only way to go now is to DIY my own dual camera release cable. I've found some electronic schematic for Pentax 2.5mm jack release cable type, but.... unfortunately it doesn't say how the triggering works and if I can short together the contacts of both cameras or I need to make a set of two separate / insulated switches with common control. I have never even tried to use a cable release (I used IR), so I don't even know how much time lag and accuracy between two shutters there would be if I used a DIY "stereo" cable release. Anyone expert on this , advice would be welcome. Thanks.

Coz if I was able to trigger two K1 shutters at the exact same time, that would open up a lot of possibilities.

[BigMackCam]

So I found a better solution.

Although quite involved, your idea sounds excellent!

I wonder if the parallax error is really that much of an issue... I'm thinking that stitching software such as Hugin might be able to deal with it satisfactorily - but I've no experience to back that up. It's just a thought.

I thought about using radio triggers, now, the question would be if two radio receiver (one on each camera) can be paired to the same transceiver and trigger both camera shutters at the same time?

I would have thought several receivers could be paired to the same transmitter. That's certainly the case with inexpensive flash triggers that I use... In fact, those units aren't even "paired" as such - you just set the frequency channel on the transmitter, and set one or more receivers to the same channel. All the receivers then trigger when the signal is received on that channel.

That aside, couldn't you just use a simple infra-red trigger? You can definitely trigger multiple cameras with one IR remote... No configuration necessary other than setting the necessary mode on the camera

As an aside, aren't you glad now that you bought two almost-identical bodies?

[biz-engineer]

You can definitely trigger multiple cameras with one IR remote...

That's what I tested, it works, both exposures are in sync most of the time, the trouble is if the camera backs aren't close enough.

That's certainly the case with inexpensive flash triggers that I use...

Flash triggering would be perfect, because it's designed to be real time sync up to 1/200. The problem is they trigger flashes , not cameras, the camera is master not slave (unless I missed something).

As an aside, aren't you glad now that you bought two almost-identical bodies?

I'm trying to turn the redundancy into an advantage. First thing I noticed is that I don't own the same lens two times, so the actual exposures are slightly different due to lenses having their own light transmission/loss.

---------- Post added 02-04-22 at 12:12 ----------

Being able to trigger the shutters of multiple cameras at the same time is a "game changer", because the combined system can shoot action (not only see waves) in high resolution panoramic format, whether it would be horse race, bike race or car race panorama.

[bill.mc]

You might find this interesting

I Built a Panoramic Photo Rig Made of 6 Nikon DSLRs, and It's Awesome | PetaPixel
it looks like you're heading down the same path..

[Digitalis]

You do realize the issues of having multiple cameras firing their shutters at the same times on the same tripod causes massive shutter shock and vibration issues.

Or you could you know buy a 6X17 format camera, and shoot film and scan it.... Instead of hobbling around with multiple cameras.

Have you ever heard of MIOPS - they are pretty versatile camera triggers that can radio trigger both cameras as well as flash units.

[acoufap]

A very special trigger for timelapses developed by the timelapse specialist Gunter Wegner who also developed the timelapse software LR Timelapse. The trigger can trigger two cameras or camera and slide etc. it supports a great variaty of shooting parameters - could be interesting for you …?!

https://lrtimelapse.com/de/lrtpt/

LRTimelapse PRO Timer 3 Kamera Intervallauslöser für Zeitraffer und Astro-Fotografie: Amazon.de: Elektronik & Foto

[AstroDave]

I don't see why a simple switch plus a hard-wired Y-connector/splitter/tee that goes to your two cameras would not work to give simultaneous (within a couple of milliseconds at worst, due to camera-to-camera trigger response time variability) wouldn't work.

Conversely, with very little electronics, one could make a multi-camera multi-transistor trigger unit such that a single trigger switch could fire as many cameras as you want at the same time, completely isolated from each other electrically (well, you'd have acommon ground, but that should not be a problem). You'd need a cable with that 2.5mm plug for each camera.

PM me for some circuit details.

[Bob 256]

Suggest instead of using two mirrors you use just one very near the "master" camera at a 45 degree angle (second camera at 90 degree angle relative to the line of sight from first camera) or a top-bottom approach where the cameras are joined at their bottoms and one shoots upside-down (no mirror). The reversed image (for the first case) or the upside-down image (second case) can be easily fixed in post before joining the two images. You might consider a 50% reflective mirror and shot through it with the "master" camera while using this approach with the second camera. This will allow you to have exactly the same axis for both cameras at the cost of needed to adjust exposures to match.

IR triggering should work fine unless Ricoh changed something in the software or hardware of the Mark II version. Electronically, there is no reason the two shutters shouldn't trip at the same time (or very nearly so).

You can use wired shutter release but I would be hesitant to simply split the wiring to two cameras without some isolation (between cameras). A better choice would be to use a double pole relay and battery (for the relay) with a momentary switch. Then feed the camera shutter releases, one camera from each of the two poles, thus isolating each. The relay will close both sets of contacts at the same time for all practical purposes, and if the shutter release software for each of your cameras is identical, the shutters should sync perfectly. This same arrangement is used for two cameras shooting 3D pairs of images. The IR approach would still be best if you can get it to work (no wires, batteries or external connections to deal with).

I know that multiple remote camera trigger receivers (another approach) can use the same transmitter since I have one which specifically advertises that fact. Again, this approach is used for two widely spaced cameras shooting 3D.

https://www.mouser.com/c/electromechanical/relays-contactors-solenoids/?coil...hing%20Voltage

amazon.com : Pixel 2.4GHz Digital Wireless Remote Shutter Release E3 Compatible with Canon, Pentax, Samsung, Contax, Sigma and Hassleblad Cameras, Replaces RS-60E3 : Electronics?tag=pentaxforums-20&

[AstroDave]

Plus IR doesn't work well or doesn't work at all if the camera IR sensors aren't next to each other, so it would require a mirror, practically bad.

It would also be quite simple to make a trigger system that flashes multiple, separate IR LEDs (that you could put almost anywhere - each one would just be connected by a pair of wires of arbitrary length) to trigger your several cameras upon reception of a signal from the Pentax (or other) IR "master" trigger: an IR sensor branched out to several IR LEDs.

[CristiC]

To the problem of a simultaneous exposure trigger, I use a flash radio trigger from PixelKing, handheld, and two extra radio receivers, tuned on the same channel. Each receiver has a 2.5mm jack plug and a short cable to the remote (cable release) connector of each camera. Now I'm gonna play with a Pentax K1 and a KP. Got three different systems of radio trigger/receiver units, for studio flash triggering. Stay tuned

Yet another way would be to talk to a SW engineer or electronics hobbyist on the topic of Arduino or Raspberry Pi. That are cheap small programmable IC boards and you can use two of the Digital Output (DO) ports they have.

See the first diagram with the TLP504A opto-isolator on DO port. http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/arduino/camera/camera.htm
See minute 2:55 at

You Tube

You Tube

Yet another one, using USB and gphoto2 (a SW library supporting Pentax cameras too) : https://www.maskaravivek.com/post/how-to-control-and-capture-images-from-dsl...-raspberry-pi/

[AggieDad]

Solving the problem of simultaneous shutters:

Here's the low-cost and very positive solution: Buy two wired shutter releases (Amazon) for a total of less than $30. The remote cable is very simple – just a leaf switch which completes a circuit. There is nothing more to it. If you wire both cables to one switch, you can fire both shutters simultaneously.

Here's how: Open the switch end of one cable and you should see three wires – common; autofocus; and shutter. Determine which wire is for the shutter and which is for the autofocus. Now cut the switch off of the other cable. Wire the common and shutter wires of the cut cable into the switch (soldering required) so that both cables are attached to the one switch. Trim off the autofocus wires – you don’t want autofocus with a panorama. Now one switch controls both shutters. The two shutters will fire every time you push the button.

[Kerrowdown]

How-stitch-panorama-waves

Here's a thought that may keep life simpler... just beg, borrow, hire or steal a larger format camera, MF or even bigger.

For example the Fujifilm GFX 100 Medium Format has 102-megapixel to play with, which will allow "panoramic" style cropping, while still leaving you a high resolution image.

[Joetitch]

Thanks for starting this thought provoking thread.
It got me thinking about panorama for myself without stitching as I am not really into pp images. So I stuck my sigma 10-20 on my K1 and at around 12mm I get edge to edge at 1/3 height in the middle so about a 12mp image which is heaps for me.
I am a fan of the KISS principal as I have a shortage of time to fiddle with setting up complicated set-ups

[CristiC]

Here's a thought that may keep life simpler... just beg, borrow, hire or steal a larger format camera, MF or even bigger.

No-no-no, this isn't about making life simpler! It's an engineer's delight to figure out a smart way of how to stitch together building blocks that are already available

[Kerrowdown]

No-no-no, this isn't about making life simpler! It's an engineer's delight to figure out a smart way of how to stitch together building blocks that are already available

There's me thinking that it was Engineers who exalted having the "right tools for the job".

For me it's always been a case of use what I have, while it does the job that needs done... if not either buy in or hire, dependant on how often that short coming is likely to happen.