[Sasquatch]

My first real photo gig is only six days away! I will be shooting a local band as they perform live at a venue here in town. This is a very good opportunity for me and I don't want to blow it. I could really use some advice as I have no experience shooting live bands in a darkish venue.

I will be packing my two bodies: K1000 and a comparable Ricoh.

I have three primes: 28mm/2.8, SMC-A 50mm/1.7, 135mm/2.8.

I also have a cheap .42x lens converter that I bought to use on the 28 for a fisheye but I'm not sure if I'm going to use it. The band has worked with at least one professional photographer in the past who used a fisheye religiously.... I obviously want to give them a different look.

I DO NOT have a flash.

I have a few rolls of Tri-X 400 laying around that I planned to use if I can. I'm going film shopping tomorrow. What should I get? 800 ISO or faster? I'm expecting minimal light to be safe. I want to shoot at least a roll of B&W because I don't think they've ever been shot in B&W.

Is not having a flash a killer? I'm a broke college student and with it being Christmas season and all I don't have any extra cash to spend on one. I could maybe find a cheap used one at a local camera joint though....

Does anyone have any tips for metering? If the stage has a lot of backlighting I can see it being a problem. I will probably be able to get on-stage or at least side-stage and can probably get close to the front as long as I am willing to throw my weight around.

Also, the band is only playing a 30 minute set.

Any other general advice? I REALLY appreciate it! Thanks!

[Sasquatch]

Update:

According to their website, the local camera shop has a pair of AF220T's in for $20. Would it be a big help or just something else to worry about? Keep in mind I have no experience using flash...

[Marc Sabatella]

Flash is often the best way to ruin gig photos, unless you really know what you are doing. Plus it's annoying as hell to the musicians unless they tell you beforehand that they are OK with it. I'd pass if I were you, or at least use it very sparingly unless you're sure it's the right thing.

Best advice I can give is to talk to the band to understand what they want - closeups of individuals, shots of the whole band on stage, crowd shots, etc. They'll probably say "yes" to everything you suggest, but try to get a sense of what they really want the most and make sure you shoot enough of it to have soem chance of success. I don't eny you doing this on film - it's tough enough on digital with ISO 1600 and the ability to check an LCD to see if you're getting what you want. Chances are most shots will be blurry unless you've got great timing and can manage shutter speeds of 1/30 or better, which is going to be tought at 400 with those lenses. I'd be shooting the 50 a lot, wide open, and underexposing & push processing unless the light is unusually good on stage to support faster shutter speeds without underexposing.

If there is any way to do a trial run with another band at the same venue, you'll probably learn a ton from that...

[Wheatfield]

Fast film is your friend. Get the fastest you can. Don't be afraid to shoot the Tri-X at 1000 ISO, just make sure you increase the development time by 50% or so.
You'll probably get your best pictures with the 50, if you can shoot from the stage then perhaps the 28. I expect the 135 won't see much use, but take it anyway.

Look at Derby Chang's galleries
Derby's galleries

[Marc Sabatella]

As another observation on focal length, if it were me shooting and I had fast enough film avalable, the 135 would actually be my most used lens on 35mm film, because I tend to like to shoot closeups. One musician, head & torso only - that probably describes 95% of my live music shots, and my favorite lens for this on APS-C is the M100/2.8. Taking a quick look at Derby Chang's galleries, it looks like he's going for a similar look, shooting APS-C also, and making good use of the FA77. Your 135 will give you an angle of view somewhere between his 77mm and my 100mm shots, which frankly strikes me as ideal.

True, Derby is also using a 50, but again, that's on APS-C. 50mm on 35mm format is definitely quite a bit wider, so you'll be getting a rather different shot with it. But limited to the equivalent of ISO 1000 or so, you'll be riding that f/1.7 hard, and for speed reasons alone you may find yourself avoiding the 135.

Of course, maybe the band *wants* wider shots than these - to have it be about the band, not the individuals. That's why I think it important to discuss this with them.

[Kerrowdown]

I do a lot of this type of photography, but not now with film, only in digital, but the same thoughts and practices apply to both mediums.

Flash is an absolute no at nearly all venues, for the benefit of the musicians and everyone else present at the venue. The use of flash also kills any of the great stage lighting that maybe present at the gig.

Firstly, it isn’t easy; this type of photography requires high ISO's and fast glass, the higher and faster the better. The other option is shed loads of light, which you don't usually have, but can only dream of. :ugh:

Marc's right, discuss with the band what they want and can expect from you, explain to them it’s your first time (we all have to start sometime).

I usually run at 1600 ISO, at apertures between f1:1.2 up to f1:2.8 (if I'm lucky, when white spotlights are on) and this still only gives me shutter speeds of somewhere in the order of 1/30 to 1/200.

The trick is time your shot, I try to get at least one of the following into each shot, two is better and so on.

1) When action is slowest, (less blur).
2) Individuals directly looking at you (for eye contact).
3) At moments of great stage lighting.
4) An interesting position or pose.

Also remember to check out the tune up and sound check phase of the gig; you can get some great informal portraits, because they are unaware of you being there, the band will really appreciate some of these because it’s often the real them.

Always wear black or very dark clothing, you will blend into the background of the stage, side stage, crowd or wherever you happen to be shooting from. This means you don’t attract unwelcome attention from anyone and allows you to get on with the job in hand.

Above all else enjoy the experience, it's like all things the more you practice you get the better you become.

[Bactman]

If interested, you may be able to borrow my Sunpak 383 external flash for the gig. I don't know if it would work or not on your rig, but I don't think I will need the flash for the next few days. I live on the northside of Indy - pm me if you would like to use it (free!).

[Sasquatch]

Thanks for all of the awesome advice, guys! I would have never thought of half of the stuff you're talking about.

Just to make sure I'm reading this right... you're saying that I should shoot the Tri-X 400 with the camera set around ISO 1000 then have the shop push the development time by about 50%? The TTL meter still won't register properly at those settings will it? Will I be shooting pretty much wide open the whole time and just ignoring the meter? I learned about pushing/pulling in class, but I've never done it. I've also never worked with a professional photo shop for my processing like I'm going to be doing for this gig, so I want to make sure I know what I'm talking about.

I found some Ilford 3200 B&W and some Fuji 1600 (both in B&W) available on the shop's website. The Ilford is supposed to be shot at 1600 ISO then pushed, I believe the Fuji is to be shot straight at 1600. Is high ISO color negative film harder to find?

My tentative plan is to have the 400 in the K with the 50mm mounted since the K's light meter is a pain to read in the dark anway. I'll also have the Ricoh loaded with the faster film and either the 135 or the 28. I don't want to have to mess around with changing lenses or film in the dark in a crowded venue when the band is only playing a 30 minute set.

Thank you very much, bactman, for the offer! I think I'll pass just because I really have no clue what I'm doing with flash at the moment but I appreciate the offer.

[Bactman]

Anytime. If you want to try a full manual flash hit me up. If I am around, you're more than welcome to take it for a whirl.

Good luck - and what is the venue and the name of the artist? Just curious.

You've got 2 bodies. Either load one with color the other b&w or put 2 different lenses on. With 2 different films you can get almost the same shot in b&w and in color. With 2 different lenses you get flexibiliity without switching lenses just switch cameras. With fast action it's the only way to get some shots. Personally I would skip the tri X and shoot color all the way. You can always scan and convert to b&w later. It won't have the same exact "feel" as the tri-x but that's sometimes the breaks.

[Marc Sabatella]

Just to make sure I'm reading this right... you're saying that I should shoot the Tri-X 400 with the camera set around ISO 1000 then have the shop push the development time by about 50%? The TTL meter still won't register properly at those settings will it?

Depends on what you mean by "properly". If it thinks you've got ISO 1000 film, it will read the exposure that would be correct on such film. Since your film is not really ISO 1000, your pictures will be underexposed, but that's the point of push processing.

Will I be shooting pretty much wide open the whole time and just ignoring the meter?

That's certainly a viable option. It's what i do with digital, but of coruse, it's also no big deal if exposures are not totally consistent as the light changes, since I can fix it in PP easily enough. On the other hand, meters tend to be fooled big time in stage lighting. Consider that basically you're dealing with two values ("zones") - either your subject is getting light or it's in pretty deep shadow. Any given scene will be made of part light and part shadow. Really, the exposure shouldn't change from shot to shot just because the *proportion* of light and shadow changes, but that's exactly what the meter is likely to want to do. So yeah, I'd think about setting an aperture and shutter speed and then just letting it ride. If you notice one area of the stage really is a lot lighter or darker than another, by all means, click the shutter speed up or down a notch to compensate, but mostly, the something like 1/30" at f/2 and ISO 800 (or whatever the meter suggests) will be a nice general purpose setting in typical stage lighting.