Trying manual lens

dave sz · 12-22-2008, 08:21 PM

Ok but the OP was saying that he gets a maximum(slowest) of 1.3s shutter no matter what conditions. Lets say the optimal shutter for the lens at f5.6 is 1.3s. If he changes to f22 it will still only do a max of 1.3s...

Marc Sabatella · 12-23-2008, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by YJD

Regarding first question, will I was doing my test, I was taking pictures of none moving objects. I still do not understand why the 'auto' shutter speed is limited to 1.3 where as the picture is all black and I do need to manually set it higher. I'm just trying to understand... I'm in my learning mode with the M mode.

I've never seen this happen on my K200D - it will set shutter speeds of 2 seconds, seconds, 15 seconds - what is necessary. Might not be very accurate at those very longer shutter speeds, but it doesn't arbitrarily cut off at 1.3 seconds. So I don't know why your K100D would be doing that,

Quote:

I haven't tried PP afterward, just looked through the LCD screen. So you might have gave me just the right explanation, even though, I still think it is weird with that small of a difference.

Feel free to post some pictures...

YJD · 12-23-2008, 06:42 AM

Thank you to you all.
Hinman, thank you for the explanation, it really helps. I'm OK that my camera as some kind of a limitation, I'm still learning everyday and still enjoys my pictures.
I'll have to do more testing during the holiday.
The day I'll do good with it, I could start buying manual lens (which are usually cheaper) and add them to my small collection.

YJD · 12-23-2008, 06:43 AM

I'll have to check about that FL with S lens thing. All my other settings looks good.

séamuis · 12-23-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

still do not understand why the 'auto' shutter speed is limited to 1.3 where as the picture is all black and I do need to manually set it higher. I'm just trying to understand... I'm in my learning mode with the M mode.

this thread is confusing.. what do you mean by 'auto' shutter speed? in M, shutter speed is selected manually.

if you press the AE-L button to do stop down metering these are the slowest shutter speeds based on ISO & 1/2 EV setting. (k100D(s), k110D) if you are maxing out the shutter speed you either need to open up the aperture, set a higher ISO or get a faster lens. if you want shutter speeds that long put the camera on a tripod.

200 = 1.5 sec. (yours is 1.3 because you are set to 1/3 EV stepping)
400 = 0.7
800 = 0.3
1600 = 8
3200 = 10

its important to keep in mind that although the camera can be used with manual lenses (and with great success) the meter wasn't designed for it. all I can really say is that pentax figured these max shutter speeds would be enough for stop down metering (and maintain proper exposure). you cant possibly get completely good results hand held at 1.5 seconds, even with SR so what does it matter? at that slow of a speed a tripod or some sort of stabilizer is a must for sharp as possible (or at all) photos.

YJD · 12-23-2008, 07:09 AM

When I said Auto shutter speed, I'm talking about when you press the AE-L. Might not have been the proper explanation, but that is what I mean (sorry, I'm just a beginner).

You gave a pretty good explanation of you and how to fix it as well as Hinman, I appreciate that and I will play more with it soon following both of your advice.

Thank you.

code4code5 · 12-23-2008, 08:34 AM

Perhaps the 1.3 that you're seeing is EV compensation? Try holding down the +/- button next to the shutter and moving the control wheel and see what happens.

YJD · 12-23-2008, 08:39 AM

I have tried that, and nothing happens.
I though too by changing the EV compensation would have solve the problem but since I'm using RAW, I can do that in PP.

séamuis · 12-23-2008, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by code4code5

Perhaps the 1.3 that you're seeing is EV compensation? Try holding down the +/- button next to the shutter and moving the control wheel and see what happens.

you do not get EV compensation in M mode. (I don't have a clue as to why) what he is seeing is the slowest shutter speed available in stop down metering for 200 ISO.

if you need a slower shutter speed, then why not just adjust the shutter yourself? you know that you need slower than 1.3 to get proper exposure (again, I don't know how that would be done hand held) but you at least have a ball park figure.

are you shooting indoors or out? im confused as to what exactly you are trying to achieve here.

hinman · 12-23-2008, 11:34 AM

I think you get a lot of valuable help already. It can be confusing as we all try to diagnose your observations. But let me jump in with few exercise so that you know AE-L can behave differently.

AE-L in Av mode
When you set your mode dial to Av mode, the AE-L will lock your current exposure for a pre-defined time period like a minute or something. If your current shutter is 1.3 sec on f11.0 and it will stay at that setting until the time expire. I don't know if you are using AE-L wrongly in the Av mode thinking that AE-L is doing the stop-down metering for you. Indeed, it is not. In Av mode, the AE-L is doing the Auto Exposure Lock for you.

AE-L in M mode
Assuming that you have set all the custom settings, the AE-L will do the stop down metering for manual lens in your K100D. If you hear the diaphragm closing down upon pressing AE-L in your K100D, the stop-down metering is in action. And you note the changes of shutter speed when you change one aperture from one end to another. Every time you change your composition or aperture setting, you need to perform the stop-down metering to get the accurate exposure before shutter release.

With your Sear 135mm f/2.8, you need to use M mode. And in M mode, Ev compensation will be disabled in K100D/K10D.

AE-L in M mode with A lens
Let say you are testing your FA 50 f/1.4 for comparison. If the FA 50mm lens is set on 'A' setting, the AE-L will not do the stop down metering until you move your aperture ring from 'A' to a fixed aperture such as f/5.6. In 'A' setting, the AE-L won't close down to do the metering for you.

I will update when I think of something else.

Hin

YJD · 12-23-2008, 11:52 AM

Seamuis, my goal is just trying to understand the why... that's all. I know I can set my shutter manually and so I did, just wondered why the AE-L was limited. Thanks to all of you I know why now.

Hinman, thanks again. I did try my 50 to compare but I didn't left it in the A position (my goal was trying manual anyway).

I think I got all the help and answers I wanted. I will try to find a way to close this topic.

Thank you to all of you!

Marc Sabatella · 12-24-2008, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by YJD

Hinman, thanks again. I did try my 50 to compare but I didn't left it in the A position (my goal was trying manual anyway).

You can certainly try using M mode with the lens in the "A" position - that's the usual way of doing it. The green button will meter wide open as opposed to stopping down. Could be interesting to see if your camera is limited to 1.3 seconds with "A" lenses as well as "M".

12-23-2008, 06:53 AM	#20
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Quote: still do not understand why the 'auto' shutter speed is limited to 1.3 where as the picture is all black and I do need to manually set it higher. I'm just trying to understand... I'm in my learning mode with the M mode. this thread is confusing.. what do you mean by 'auto' shutter speed? in M, shutter speed is selected manually. if you press the AE-L button to do stop down metering these are the slowest shutter speeds based on ISO & 1/2 EV setting. (k100D(s), k110D) if you are maxing out the shutter speed you either need to open up the aperture, set a higher ISO or get a faster lens. if you want shutter speeds that long put the camera on a tripod. 200 = 1.5 sec. (yours is 1.3 because you are set to 1/3 EV stepping) 400 = 0.7 800 = 0.3 1600 = 8 3200 = 10 its important to keep in mind that although the camera can be used with manual lenses (and with great success) the meter wasn't designed for it. all I can really say is that pentax figured these max shutter speeds would be enough for stop down metering (and maintain proper exposure). you cant possibly get completely good results hand held at 1.5 seconds, even with SR so what does it matter? at that slow of a speed a tripod or some sort of stabilizer is a must for sharp as possible (or at all) photos. Last edited by séamuis; 12-23-2008 at 07:09 AM.

12-23-2008, 10:41 AM	#24
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by code4code5 Perhaps the 1.3 that you're seeing is EV compensation? Try holding down the +/- button next to the shutter and moving the control wheel and see what happens. you do not get EV compensation in M mode. (I don't have a clue as to why) what he is seeing is the slowest shutter speed available in stop down metering for 200 ISO. if you need a slower shutter speed, then why not just adjust the shutter yourself? you know that you need slower than 1.3 to get proper exposure (again, I don't know how that would be done hand held) but you at least have a ball park figure. are you shooting indoors or out? im confused as to what exactly you are trying to achieve here. Last edited by séamuis; 12-23-2008 at 10:49 AM.

12-23-2008, 11:34 AM	#25
hinman Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fremont, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,473	I think you get a lot of valuable help already. It can be confusing as we all try to diagnose your observations. But let me jump in with few exercise so that you know AE-L can behave differently. AE-L in Av mode When you set your mode dial to Av mode, the AE-L will lock your current exposure for a pre-defined time period like a minute or something. If your current shutter is 1.3 sec on f11.0 and it will stay at that setting until the time expire. I don't know if you are using AE-L wrongly in the Av mode thinking that AE-L is doing the stop-down metering for you. Indeed, it is not. In Av mode, the AE-L is doing the Auto Exposure Lock for you. AE-L in M mode Assuming that you have set all the custom settings, the AE-L will do the stop down metering for manual lens in your K100D. If you hear the diaphragm closing down upon pressing AE-L in your K100D, the stop-down metering is in action. And you note the changes of shutter speed when you change one aperture from one end to another. Every time you change your composition or aperture setting, you need to perform the stop-down metering to get the accurate exposure before shutter release. With your Sear 135mm f/2.8, you need to use M mode. And in M mode, Ev compensation will be disabled in K100D/K10D. AE-L in M mode with A lens Let say you are testing your FA 50 f/1.4 for comparison. If the FA 50mm lens is set on 'A' setting, the AE-L will not do the stop down metering until you move your aperture ring from 'A' to a fixed aperture such as f/5.6. In 'A' setting, the AE-L won't close down to do the metering for you. I will update when I think of something else. Hin Last edited by hinman; 12-23-2008 at 11:39 AM.

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12-22-2008, 08:21 PM	#16
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	Ok but the OP was saying that he gets a maximum(slowest) of 1.3s shutter no matter what conditions. Lets say the optimal shutter for the lens at f5.6 is 1.3s. If he changes to f22 it will still only do a max of 1.3s...

12-23-2008, 05:33 AM	#17
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by YJD Regarding first question, will I was doing my test, I was taking pictures of none moving objects. I still do not understand why the 'auto' shutter speed is limited to 1.3 where as the picture is all black and I do need to manually set it higher. I'm just trying to understand... I'm in my learning mode with the M mode. I've never seen this happen on my K200D - it will set shutter speeds of 2 seconds, seconds, 15 seconds - what is necessary. Might not be very accurate at those very longer shutter speeds, but it doesn't arbitrarily cut off at 1.3 seconds. So I don't know why your K100D would be doing that, Quote: I haven't tried PP afterward, just looked through the LCD screen. So you might have gave me just the right explanation, even though, I still think it is weird with that small of a difference. Feel free to post some pictures...

12-23-2008, 06:42 AM	#18
YJD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Monte Vista, CO Posts: 529 Original Poster	Thank you to you all. Hinman, thank you for the explanation, it really helps. I'm OK that my camera as some kind of a limitation, I'm still learning everyday and still enjoys my pictures. I'll have to do more testing during the holiday. The day I'll do good with it, I could start buying manual lens (which are usually cheaper) and add them to my small collection.

12-23-2008, 06:43 AM	#19
YJD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Monte Vista, CO Posts: 529 Original Poster	I'll have to check about that FL with S lens thing. All my other settings looks good.

12-23-2008, 07:09 AM	#21
YJD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Monte Vista, CO Posts: 529 Original Poster	When I said Auto shutter speed, I'm talking about when you press the AE-L. Might not have been the proper explanation, but that is what I mean (sorry, I'm just a beginner). You gave a pretty good explanation of you and how to fix it as well as Hinman, I appreciate that and I will play more with it soon following both of your advice. Thank you.

12-23-2008, 08:34 AM	#22
code4code5 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 438	Perhaps the 1.3 that you're seeing is EV compensation? Try holding down the +/- button next to the shutter and moving the control wheel and see what happens.

12-23-2008, 08:39 AM	#23
YJD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Monte Vista, CO Posts: 529 Original Poster	I have tried that, and nothing happens. I though too by changing the EV compensation would have solve the problem but since I'm using RAW, I can do that in PP.

12-23-2008, 11:52 AM	#26
YJD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Monte Vista, CO Posts: 529 Original Poster	Seamuis, my goal is just trying to understand the why... that's all. I know I can set my shutter manually and so I did, just wondered why the AE-L was limited. Thanks to all of you I know why now. Hinman, thanks again. I did try my 50 to compare but I didn't left it in the A position (my goal was trying manual anyway). I think I got all the help and answers I wanted. I will try to find a way to close this topic. Thank you to all of you!

12-24-2008, 09:40 PM	#27
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by YJD Hinman, thanks again. I did try my 50 to compare but I didn't left it in the A position (my goal was trying manual anyway). You can certainly try using M mode with the lens in the "A" position - that's the usual way of doing it. The green button will meter wide open as opposed to stopping down. Could be interesting to see if your camera is limited to 1.3 seconds with "A" lenses as well as "M".