Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-03-2009, 02:36 PM   #31
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 142
If you don't really care about the extra resolution (and that's the majority of us), the only things APS-C give up compared to FF are ultra wide-angle and DOF. Technically, there's no reason why they can't give us a super high-magnification viewfinder and high-ISO in an APS-C sensor. For example, take the 12MP sensor in the D3/D700, cut it in half, jam into D300 body, improve the viewfinder, and call it a day. Better yet, do the same thing but jam it into a K10D/K20D body ... the D300 is too big. I'll take such a 6MP camera over any available today.

01-03-2009, 04:36 PM   #32
Veteran Member
ftpaddict's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Yurp
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,669
QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Actually there are plenty of reasons. And in fact, there are times that I reach for my small sensor camera and leave the K20d at home (and a FF camera would stay at home as well).

Not only are there physical reasons for not going 36x24, there are artistic ones as well. The various sensor sizes all have slightly different looks, especially wrt noise. Some of us like noise if it is done properly. While absolute clarity and resolution might be a benchmark, it isn't necessarily the ultimate path to art. Different tools for different tasks...

You raise a good point; however I can't help but think of all those film formats that bowed down in front of the ancient 36x24mm. I guess novelty and convenience isn't enough to overcome tried-and-tested formats.

Then again, I'd love to get my hands on one of those new Leicas.
01-03-2009, 11:18 PM   #33
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,043
QuoteOriginally posted by woodworm Quote
I don't really understand the fuss about FF?
visit some 4/3 forums... they will teach you that APS-C is not necessary.
01-04-2009, 06:43 AM   #34
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 278
QuoteOriginally posted by twinda1 Quote
If you don't really care about the extra resolution (and that's the majority of us), the only things APS-C give up compared to FF are ultra wide-angle and DOF. Technically, there's no reason why they can't give us a super high-magnification viewfinder and high-ISO in an APS-C sensor. For example, take the 12MP sensor in the D3/D700, cut it in half, jam into D300 body, improve the viewfinder, and call it a day. Better yet, do the same thing but jam it into a K10D/K20D body ... the D300 is too big. I'll take such a 6MP camera over any available today.
Technically, but realistically only Nikon control the technology in that FX sensor. They could have put it in a APS body instead of using the crappy Sony sensors, but they didn't. So to some people, like me, it's matter of waiting for the D700 to drop to my range.

If the D700's successor has higer pixel count and worst ISO, I wouldn't connsider it.

I only prefer Pentax FF over a used D700 two years from now becuase I like Pentax lenses slightly over the Nikon ones. I checked out the lenses I want in Nikon mount, the prices are similar. Pentax don't make good looking bodies anymore.

Since DA40 and DA70 are usable on FF, and 16-45mm are usable from 21mm onward, a Pentax FF setup would be smaller. But if they put the same Sony FF sensor which only goes up to ISO 1600 then I am not interested.

01-04-2009, 06:43 PM   #35
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,027
QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
FF gives you LESS DOF at the same aperture and field of view (eg a 75mm lens on FF at F4 has the same DOF as a 50mm lens on APS at F2.8). This is fine for portrait and wedding shooters who like blurry backgrounds but not so good for landscape shooters.
Sorry..you're right...I meant less (I should have just said more fuzzy backgrounds :-)
It's not very good for situations where a small sensor is nicer (getting a group of people in focus where a P&S cam does better in enough light).
01-04-2009, 07:17 PM   #36
Veteran Member
nostatic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,575
Original Poster
well, I shot an a900 back to back with my K20d (in a store though) and there certainly is a difference in detail, resolution and subtlety of shading. For those that do fairly radical crops or if I were to print rather large you'd certainly see a difference. I may print a couple of crops to see.

But the K20 with a ltd prime is so much easier to heft around. No free lunch...

Disclaimer: not art, not particularly well controlled, and just snapping away AF inside the store. You can still see some differences. These are raw shots just converted to jpg in Aperture, though I did try and adjust WB on a few images where they were pretty different.

http://www.nostatic.com/photos/a900K20d/

Last edited by nostatic; 01-04-2009 at 07:54 PM.
01-04-2009, 07:34 PM   #37
Veteran Member
soccerjoe5's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philippines
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,343
Hmm my top reasons for not going FF:

(1) If you're not a pixel-peeper
(2) If you're focusing on the art of photography
(3) If you can take awesome photos with "just" APS-C or 4/3 or P&S cameras
01-05-2009, 05:17 AM   #38
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,631
I'm not particularily interested in FF. It is not because I don't have the lenses because outside my DA 12-24mm the vast majority of my lenses will work on FF cameras. I would say what limits me is the hidden costs. With the extra size and weight of a FF camera, my travel tripod would no longer work, it barely works for the K10D. I'd also have to upgrade my medium and small camera bags. Right now I've got a handful of Ultra III 2gb SD cards that work well. But shooting raw with FF I'd probably have to go with SDHC, not a large expense but you can get nickeled and dimed to death too.

NaCl(besides, there is no Pentax FF body)H2O

01-05-2009, 07:12 AM   #39
Veteran Member
wlachan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,625
QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
1. huge files
My hard drives are already moaning in agony, and I often have to toss stuff on my laptop just so I can download a shooting session. While hard drives are cheap and big, it still is a pita wrt archiving, organizing libraries, etc.
If that was the reason, one should choose Canon or Nikon instead because Pentax RAW aren't compressed.

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
2. size/weight
If you carry your setup around a lot, and especially if you're a "street shooter" (loosely defined), a FF setup can be a little brutal. For instance, a K20d is 798g, an a900 is 939g. A Zeiss 24-70 is 995g vs. 565g for a 16-50*. And if you like to shoot ltd primes, it is a massive difference. All of the FF setups are also larger and more obtrusive.
The original 5D seems okay in size. K20D is not small either.

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
3. cost
One issue that is starting to pop up with FF is deficiencies in the glass. Lenses optimized for APS of course vignette like mad, but even proper FF glass can look less-than-stellar with the higher resolution. Of course there is no free lunch, but if you want to look good, you'll have to pay $$$.
Quality lenses cost, APS-C or FF. Have you checked Super High Grade Zuiko Digital lenses BTW?
01-05-2009, 08:25 AM   #40
Veteran Member
arpaagent's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 803
If Pentax were to release a FF body, I would find it hard to resist purchasing it, but would also be keeping my current K200D. As many have already pointed out, there are definitely pros and cons to both formats. Main reason that I would go for FF would be the extra wide angle and better for portraiture with smaller DOF capability. But I couldn't let go of my APS-C because I like the extra tele-reach in some occasions, for example sports and wildlife.

What I wouldn't give to be using my beautiful K17/4 fisheye or SMC Takumar 20/4.5 on a FF digital!! (I need to get some film and run it through one of my film bodies with some of these wide angle lenses, at least until the FF digital comes out if ever).

Last edited by arpaagent; 01-05-2009 at 08:30 AM.
01-05-2009, 06:23 PM   #41
Veteran Member
Duplo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 924
QuoteOriginally posted by twinda1 Quote
If you don't really care about the extra resolution (and that's the majority of us), the only things APS-C give up compared to FF are ultra wide-angle and DOF. Technically, there's no reason why they can't give us a super high-magnification viewfinder and high-ISO in an APS-C sensor. For example, take the 12MP sensor in the D3/D700, cut it in half, jam into D300 body, improve the viewfinder, and call it a day. Better yet, do the same thing but jam it into a K10D/K20D body ... the D300 is too big. I'll take such a 6MP camera over any available today.
One issue about the viewfinder is that you can only do so much.
Yes it can be magnified, but as you magnify the viewfinder you also loose brightness.

QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
Hmm my top reasons for not going FF:

(1) If you're not a pixel-peeper
(2) If you're focusing on the art of photography
(3) If you can take awesome photos with "just" APS-C or 4/3 or P&S cameras
So by your definition, I am a pixelpeeper, not focused on the "art" of photography (whatever defines that) and unable to shoot decently with an APS, 4/3 or P&S camera...


Would love to hear how you would define the MFDB users then
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aps, camera, course, drives, ff, glass, photography, reasons, setup
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reasons to keep your P&S yusuf General Talk 17 05-17-2010 02:31 PM
K200D in Top 25 & K-7 out of Top 25 at Amazon Samsungian Pentax News and Rumors 8 10-20-2009 07:06 AM
Reasons? flockofbirds Pentax Film SLR Discussion 14 09-05-2009 02:31 PM
Top 15 Reasons You Might Be Obsessed with Photography jgredline General Talk 29 02-15-2009 04:55 PM
9 Reasons To Manual Focus duron Photographic Technique 12 12-08-2008 02:05 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:22 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top