No More AUTO PICT!

Music · 01-08-2009, 06:37 PM

Hello,

My photography hobby has been put on hold the past year but I am starting again. Someone suggested in a thread that there were three main concepts to learn as a starting point. I can't seem to find that thread so I am asking for help.

As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? What will get me up and running the quickest?

Thanks,
Todd

Vylen · 01-08-2009, 06:44 PM

toying around... i only bought my first dslr in december and i've learnt that playing around is something you shouldnt be afraid of.. and since i have a K20D, there's lots of fun dials to turn and buttons to push :P

Wheatfield · 01-08-2009, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Music

Hello,

My photography hobby has been put on hold the past year but I am starting again. Someone suggested in a thread that there were three main concepts to learn as a starting point. I can't seem to find that thread so I am asking for help.

As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? What will get me up and running the quickest?

Thanks,
Todd

Well, this is more than three concepts.

Read the manual.
Read some books on photographic theory and composition theory.
Look at pictures, look at lots of pictures.
Take a visual arts class, but don't get too hung up on whether you can draw or not. I can't, but to be fair, there are those who say I can't take pictures either.
So it goes.

Take pictures.
Don't get hung up on whether or not they are money shots, just take pictures. The more you handle the equipment, the easier it will be to operate it.
Did you know that when they introduced automatic exposure cameras in the late 1970s, one of the excuses for them was that it let you, the photographer, concentrate more on composition?
It's true.
Now, with DSLRs, it often seems like we have to concentrate more on the machine than the picture again.

Copy other people's picture style. It's not moral turpitude to try to emulate the work of someone you respect, and along the way you will learn what you need to know to develop your own style.

No matter what anyone tells you, the technical side matters and there are rules of composition, and these rules are every bit as important as the rules of grammar are to a language.
Forget this at your photography's peril.

dosdan · 01-08-2009, 08:01 PM

Music, if you haven't already done it, you've got to understand the relationship of sensitivity, shutter speed & aperture to exposure. Also the role of aperture to depth-of-field and shutter speed to motion blurring. I recommend the http://photonhead.com website, particularly the SimCam camera simulator where you can experiment with different settings.

Dan.

alohadave · 01-09-2009, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

Music, if you haven't already done it, you've got to understand the relationship of sensitivity, shutter speed & aperture to exposure. Also the role of aperture to depth-of-field and shutter speed to motion blurring. I recommend the http://photonhead.com website, particularly the SimCam camera simulator where you can experiment with different settings.

Dan.

That's a pretty nifty tool.

**NaClH2O** · 01-09-2009, 10:14 AM

Some very good advice so far. I agree with Wheatfield above in that there are certain rules of composition that need to be learned before you can ignore them.
I'm an ex professional musician, and one of my mentors always said "musicians play", meaning practice and jam. I agree, and I'll give this corollary, "photographers shoot" get out and use your new wonderful machine. One of the beauties of digital photography is that the act of shooting itself is free, no film to buy or get developed. Another beauty of digital photography is something called the exif file. This is a small file attached to every photo you take that tells you exactly what you did. It really helps.
Some basic books that I've found helpful:
The Basic Book of Photography, by Tom Grimm---a good overview of all the basics, and well written. Doesn't treat me like a dummy and at the same time doesn't talk over my head.
Understand Exposure: by Bryan Peterson---more in depth than above, but more about the relationships between ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed etc.
That said, all the book learning in the world can't subsitute for getting out and shooting.

NaCl(shoot shoot shoot, look and see what you did right and wrong and then shoot shoot shoot...repeat)H2O

séamuis · 01-09-2009, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

Music, if you haven't already done it, you've got to understand the relationship of sensitivity, shutter speed & aperture to exposure. Also the role of aperture to depth-of-field and shutter speed to motion blurring. I recommend the http://photonhead.com website, particularly the SimCam camera simulator where you can experiment with different settings.

Dan.

that's very slick, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Clicker · 01-09-2009, 01:44 PM

Having had formal training

i leave it on "auto" most times, i'm a lazy SOB

In reality my DSLR stuff is for memories as long as i have a "reasonable" image i'm content.

DSLR Tips: photography tutorials, video workshops, lens and accessory reviews

Mark Castleman · 01-09-2009, 02:24 PM

Take lots of pictures. Electrons are much cheaper than Kodachrome.

kenyee · 01-09-2009, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Music

As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side?

DOF is probably the hardest part to master coming from a P&S...it's also the reason you need focus points on a DSLR. Just the whole concept of not having the entire image be sharp and finding out that you need to get to f/8 w/ a shutter speed of 1/15 indoors can just be annoying

Just play w/ the different modes to find what you feel comfortable with...digital makes a great learning medium...

Ed in GA · 01-09-2009, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Music

Hello,

My photography hobby has been put on hold the past year but I am starting again. Someone suggested in a thread that there were three main concepts to learn as a starting point. I can't seem to find that thread so I am asking for help.

As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? What will get me up and running the quickest?

Thanks,
Todd

I'd recommend that you pick up, and read, a copy of Brian Petersons book "Understanding Exposure". A lot of really good information in that book.

Neil MacG · 01-09-2009, 03:07 PM

If you like looking at photos (and I'm guessing you do) then I find a very useful means of improving my knowledge is to go on photo sites like Welcome to Flickr - Photo Sharing and just look around to see what photos you really like and would like to emulate.

Look at the settings used and ask the photographer what they did to achieve the look and style that you like.

Once you've got a bit of knowledge you might then submit your photos to critiique forums for review, and provided you are reasonably thick skinned and can take honest criticism there is a lot to be learned this way (have a look at the Photography Critique group on Flickr - Flickr: Photography Critique for an idea of what I mean)

Books and other resources mentioned here are also beneficial but you might also want to link up with a local Photo Club or members of a forum at a phot meet for some friendly photographic socialisation.

Neil

séamuis · 01-09-2009, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Neil MacG

If you like looking at photos (and I'm guessing you do) then I find a very useful means of improving my knowledge is to go on photo sites like Welcome to Flickr - Photo Sharing and just look around to see what photos you really like and would like to emulate.

Look at the settings used and ask the photographer what they did to achieve the look and style that you like.

Once you've got a bit of knowledge you might then submit your photos to critiique forums for review, and provided you are reasonably thick skinned and can take honest criticism there is a lot to be learned this way (have a look at the Photography Critique group on Flickr - Flickr: Photography Critique for an idea of what I mean)

Books and other resources mentioned here are also beneficial but you might also want to link up with a local Photo Club or members of a forum at a phot meet for some friendly photographic socialisation.

Neil

you can do all of that here though, no?

Neil MacG · 01-09-2009, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

you can do all of that here though, no?

Quite possibly - but I haven't been around on this forum long enough to know if there is sufficient volume of photos critiqued to be of value for a newbie DSLR user. Funnily enough I had a quick look in the critique forum here and the first image for critique I came to was a link to one hosted on Flickr! so maybe you can have the best of both worlds.

But the concept is the same whether here, Flickr or anywhere else. Learning is as much about asking the right questions as getting the right answers. Practice is important (as already mentioned by others), but so is working out what you need to ask. Looking at other interesting photos and trying to work out how they were composed and processed is a good way to get involved in that learning process. Who and where the people are that you ask is an informed choice to be made.

Neil

**rparmar** · 01-09-2009, 06:54 PM

Some good advice so far; in particular dosdan hit the nose on the head.

Some practical advice. The quickest way to get going is to set the mode to "A", aperture priority. Then your main dial will change the lens aperture. The shutter speed will adapt to follow, based on the ISO and the current level of light. In order to gain full control, turn off the auto ISO feature (setting found in the menu). Now, you can choose to change ISO to a higher value if the light is low and you don't mind risking noise. Anything up to ISO 800 is fine anyway.

Now you can go out into the world and take shots, controlling the aperture, which is to say depth of field. The camera does everything else. Rarely will you need any other mode. It's easy really!

01-08-2009, 06:37 PM	#1
Music New Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ohio, US Posts: 23	No More AUTO PICT! Hello, My photography hobby has been put on hold the past year but I am starting again. Someone suggested in a thread that there were three main concepts to learn as a starting point. I can't seem to find that thread so I am asking for help. As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? What will get me up and running the quickest? Thanks, Todd

01-09-2009, 01:44 PM	#8
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Having had formal training i leave it on "auto" most times, i'm a lazy SOB In reality my DSLR stuff is for memories as long as i have a "reasonable" image i'm content. DSLR Tips: photography tutorials, video workshops, lens and accessory reviews Last edited by Clicker; 01-09-2009 at 02:03 PM.

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01-08-2009, 06:44 PM	#2
Vylen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,262	toying around... i only bought my first dslr in december and i've learnt that playing around is something you shouldnt be afraid of.. and since i have a K20D, there's lots of fun dials to turn and buttons to push :P

01-08-2009, 07:46 PM	#3
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Music Hello, My photography hobby has been put on hold the past year but I am starting again. Someone suggested in a thread that there were three main concepts to learn as a starting point. I can't seem to find that thread so I am asking for help. As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? What will get me up and running the quickest? Thanks, Todd Well, this is more than three concepts. Read the manual. Read some books on photographic theory and composition theory. Look at pictures, look at lots of pictures. Take a visual arts class, but don't get too hung up on whether you can draw or not. I can't, but to be fair, there are those who say I can't take pictures either. So it goes. Take pictures. Don't get hung up on whether or not they are money shots, just take pictures. The more you handle the equipment, the easier it will be to operate it. Did you know that when they introduced automatic exposure cameras in the late 1970s, one of the excuses for them was that it let you, the photographer, concentrate more on composition? It's true. Now, with DSLRs, it often seems like we have to concentrate more on the machine than the picture again. Copy other people's picture style. It's not moral turpitude to try to emulate the work of someone you respect, and along the way you will learn what you need to know to develop your own style. No matter what anyone tells you, the technical side matters and there are rules of composition, and these rules are every bit as important as the rules of grammar are to a language. Forget this at your photography's peril.

01-08-2009, 08:01 PM	#4
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Music, if you haven't already done it, you've got to understand the relationship of sensitivity, shutter speed & aperture to exposure. Also the role of aperture to depth-of-field and shutter speed to motion blurring. I recommend the http://photonhead.com website, particularly the SimCam camera simulator where you can experiment with different settings. Dan.

01-09-2009, 09:16 AM	#5
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by dosdan Music, if you haven't already done it, you've got to understand the relationship of sensitivity, shutter speed & aperture to exposure. Also the role of aperture to depth-of-field and shutter speed to motion blurring. I recommend the http://photonhead.com website, particularly the SimCam camera simulator where you can experiment with different settings. Dan. That's a pretty nifty tool.

01-09-2009, 10:14 AM	#6
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Some very good advice so far. I agree with Wheatfield above in that there are certain rules of composition that need to be learned before you can ignore them. I'm an ex professional musician, and one of my mentors always said "musicians play", meaning practice and jam. I agree, and I'll give this corollary, "photographers shoot" get out and use your new wonderful machine. One of the beauties of digital photography is that the act of shooting itself is free, no film to buy or get developed. Another beauty of digital photography is something called the exif file. This is a small file attached to every photo you take that tells you exactly what you did. It really helps. Some basic books that I've found helpful: The Basic Book of Photography, by Tom Grimm---a good overview of all the basics, and well written. Doesn't treat me like a dummy and at the same time doesn't talk over my head. Understand Exposure: by Bryan Peterson---more in depth than above, but more about the relationships between ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed etc. That said, all the book learning in the world can't subsitute for getting out and shooting. NaCl(shoot shoot shoot, look and see what you did right and wrong and then shoot shoot shoot...repeat)H2O

01-09-2009, 10:29 AM	#7
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by dosdan Music, if you haven't already done it, you've got to understand the relationship of sensitivity, shutter speed & aperture to exposure. Also the role of aperture to depth-of-field and shutter speed to motion blurring. I recommend the http://photonhead.com website, particularly the SimCam camera simulator where you can experiment with different settings. Dan. that's very slick, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

01-09-2009, 02:24 PM	#9
Mark Castleman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Westminster, Colorado Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 298	Take lots of pictures. Electrons are much cheaper than Kodachrome.

01-09-2009, 02:29 PM	#10
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by Music As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? DOF is probably the hardest part to master coming from a P&S...it's also the reason you need focus points on a DSLR. Just the whole concept of not having the entire image be sharp and finding out that you need to get to f/8 w/ a shutter speed of 1/15 indoors can just be annoying Just play w/ the different modes to find what you feel comfortable with...digital makes a great learning medium...

01-09-2009, 02:40 PM	#11
Ed in GA Guest	Originally posted by Music Hello, My photography hobby has been put on hold the past year but I am starting again. Someone suggested in a thread that there were three main concepts to learn as a starting point. I can't seem to find that thread so I am asking for help. As a guy who comes from a point and shoot background, what concepts should I learn as I venture to the manual side? What will get me up and running the quickest? Thanks, Todd I'd recommend that you pick up, and read, a copy of Brian Petersons book "Understanding Exposure". A lot of really good information in that book.

01-09-2009, 03:07 PM	#12
Neil MacG Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Newbury, England Posts: 53	If you like looking at photos (and I'm guessing you do) then I find a very useful means of improving my knowledge is to go on photo sites like Welcome to Flickr - Photo Sharing and just look around to see what photos you really like and would like to emulate. Look at the settings used and ask the photographer what they did to achieve the look and style that you like. Once you've got a bit of knowledge you might then submit your photos to critiique forums for review, and provided you are reasonably thick skinned and can take honest criticism there is a lot to be learned this way (have a look at the Photography Critique group on Flickr - Flickr: Photography Critique for an idea of what I mean) Books and other resources mentioned here are also beneficial but you might also want to link up with a local Photo Club or members of a forum at a phot meet for some friendly photographic socialisation. Neil

01-09-2009, 03:13 PM	#13
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Neil MacG If you like looking at photos (and I'm guessing you do) then I find a very useful means of improving my knowledge is to go on photo sites like Welcome to Flickr - Photo Sharing and just look around to see what photos you really like and would like to emulate. Look at the settings used and ask the photographer what they did to achieve the look and style that you like. Once you've got a bit of knowledge you might then submit your photos to critiique forums for review, and provided you are reasonably thick skinned and can take honest criticism there is a lot to be learned this way (have a look at the Photography Critique group on Flickr - Flickr: Photography Critique for an idea of what I mean) Books and other resources mentioned here are also beneficial but you might also want to link up with a local Photo Club or members of a forum at a phot meet for some friendly photographic socialisation. Neil you can do all of that here though, no?

01-09-2009, 03:42 PM	#14
Neil MacG Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Newbury, England Posts: 53	Originally posted by séamuis you can do all of that here though, no? Quite possibly - but I haven't been around on this forum long enough to know if there is sufficient volume of photos critiqued to be of value for a newbie DSLR user. Funnily enough I had a quick look in the critique forum here and the first image for critique I came to was a link to one hosted on Flickr! so maybe you can have the best of both worlds. But the concept is the same whether here, Flickr or anywhere else. Learning is as much about asking the right questions as getting the right answers. Practice is important (as already mentioned by others), but so is working out what you need to ask. Looking at other interesting photos and trying to work out how they were composed and processed is a good way to get involved in that learning process. Who and where the people are that you ask is an informed choice to be made. Neil

01-09-2009, 06:54 PM	#15
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Some good advice so far; in particular dosdan hit the nose on the head. Some practical advice. The quickest way to get going is to set the mode to "A", aperture priority. Then your main dial will change the lens aperture. The shutter speed will adapt to follow, based on the ISO and the current level of light. In order to gain full control, turn off the auto ISO feature (setting found in the menu). Now, you can choose to change ISO to a higher value if the light is low and you don't mind risking noise. Anything up to ISO 800 is fine anyway. Now you can go out into the world and take shots, controlling the aperture, which is to say depth of field. The camera does everything else. Rarely will you need any other mode. It's easy really!