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02-05-2009, 08:57 AM   #16
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My guiding principle for mode selection is simply this: Use the mode that you're comfortable with and gives you the picture you want. I will say that when I restricted myself to only shooting in M mode for a few shooting sessions if forced me to left some of the fundamental nuts and bolts of exposure set in.

02-05-2009, 09:11 AM   #17
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Two reasons -- consistency, and speed.

I was trained on motion picture cameras with no meters, no auto-anything. With a hand-held meter you can nail the exposure you want in a few seconds. I find that using a handheld meter also makes me more aware of the ambient light conditions.

Once you dial in the manual settings, you know every shot will have the same look. There are so many secondary aspects to the image that will change from shot to shot if you let the exposure float on automatic. For example, depth of field changes, the characteristic of the lens at different apertures (softer at extremely large apertures, diffraction error creeping in at the smallest apertures), and the response of the film or sensor to where you place the exposure in their sensitivity curve. Even tiny amounts of over/underexposure creates a different look -- denser shadows, gaussier highlights, etc. By metering and deciding once where I want the exposure to sit, I can get the same look for 1 or 100 shots. I don't have to think about it again until the lighting or location changes.

Using Manual versus Program versus Aperture Priority, etc. isn't right or wrong. It requires a different thought process, and it's a process that I enjoy and works well when you want every shot to feel the same (i.e. like a bunch of portraits at a wedding.)
02-05-2009, 06:01 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
maybe you're not a visual person, so let me explain :ugh:
Sorry about that. I browse at work where most of the photo-sharing sites are blocked so I didn't see the photos.
02-05-2009, 06:06 PM   #19
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Many good reasons posted here but having constant exposure is not always an advantage. If bright objects may come into the scene dynamically it can be of advantage if the exposure is adjusted dynamically in order to avoid blown out areas.

Or achieving "exposure to the right" as closely as possible is easier with Av mode if the lighting changes dynamically between shots.

I find the arguments presented here to shoot in manual very convincing (and have shot in manual a number of times myself) but there are applications for some of the automatic modes as well.

02-05-2009, 06:12 PM   #20
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there is another thread running about an instructor that insisted on using manual mode and the OP was asking for the reason.

there were a lot of people who were both for it and against it, as here.

the bottom line is, if you have a method, regardless of mode, where you use the controls of the camera consistently to produce good results, then it is a valid way of working.

whether you use manual mode, or any of Tv, Av Auto, or Program, plus the EV compensation dial and AE lock button, you are ultimatly doing the same thing.

EV comp and AE lock are just ways of you making the same decisions without turning the mode switch to manual.

It is what ever you are comfortable doing.
02-05-2009, 08:08 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Many good reasons posted here but having constant exposure is not always an advantage. If bright objects may come into the scene dynamically it can be of advantage if the exposure is adjusted dynamically in order to avoid blown out areas.
True. Whether you use M or one of the more automatic modes, there wil be *some* situations where you can basically just forget about exposure shoot away, and *some* situations where you have to change some sort of setting from one shot to the next in order to get the results you want. No mode is foolproof.

I actually find the *number* of shots that require some sort of fiddling to be roughly the same regardless of mode. So it really comes down to, which mode fits the way you think so you're likely to *notice* when a shot you're about to take will require you to take some sort of action and also be able to figure out quickly how you need to react. That's why it's so personal - it has to do with what triggers *your* brain to recognize that action is required and figure out what that action should be.

QuoteQuote:
I find the arguments presented here to shoot in manual very convincing (and have shot in manual a number of times myself) but there are applications for some of the automatic modes as well.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: with very few exceptions, *any* picture can be take in any *any* mode, with appropriate use of manual overrides such as exposure compensation or use of AE-L. So it really doesn't matter what mode you choose as long as you know how to squeeze the results you want out of it.

Some people really have it figured out as to which mode is going to be the most natural fit (in the sense of requiring the least amount of user intervention, mostly) for which situations, and they are able to switch their thinking from one mode to another. If you really nail it, you can probably minimize the the number of buttons you need to press if you switch modes according to situation.

Me, I'm not that smart. When I switch modes, it messes with my thinking, and I just end up making mistakes (not anticipating shots that will require intervention, not responding correctly when I do recognize action is needed) until my thinking readjusts. I do better when I stick to one mode. In the days when I didn't use manual lenses much, I was happy having that one mode be Av - and to be honest, I used Av a lot with my M lenses too (since I tended to only use M lenses when in situations where I'd want to use them wide open anyhow). It was only as I started using M lenses more - including wanting to use them stopped down - that I had to start dealing with M mode, and started realizing that switching modes wasn't working for me.

But again, it's all personal. If you can handle the change in thinking required when you change modes, great. And if you don't use M lenses, you can do just fine in Av all the time (or Tv, or P, or Sv, or TAv...). The difference between these ways of working is more about the *photographer* than about the situation - eg, none of this "hockey needs Tv, portraits need Av" BS.
02-05-2009, 08:19 PM   #22
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Manual gives you absolute control, which I like.

Try not to think of it as more work; try to see it as having the best of both Av and Tv modes. With near-infinite EV compensation.

Of course, I do love my M lenses, which kinda forces your hand (and you should be on the lookout for these lenses: better build than the A series, and often cheaper.)

02-05-2009, 11:52 PM   #23
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Pentax has made it much easier to shoot manual with their DSLRS:

1. I used to shoot TAV, now shoot manual mostly. Once i set the shutter or the aperture i want, then i click on the green button which recommends the metered solution. Then i go from there for final adjustments.

2. If you see a spot in your image with the exposure one wants, then clicking on the AEL lock in Manual mode, causes the shutter in Manual mode to adjust to any setting of the aperture and vice versa. I think thats why they call it hybrid Manual.

People who use AV adjust EV stops, people using manual adjust aperture and shutter directly. Both groups are doing adjustments. to some degree, its a similar process.

Phil
02-06-2009, 01:01 AM   #24
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I use manual because it frees me up to expose the image how I want. I'm constantly making decisions on shutter speed and ISO. It's a give and take in many lighting situations.
02-06-2009, 09:35 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by DJey Quote
For me I use manual on times where I expect the camera to incorrectly meter the frame...
Exactly! Sometimes, the camera's meter does not do what I desire or expect.
02-06-2009, 09:59 AM   #26
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I guess for me it's the fact that Manual is the only mode in which you can completely decouple from the camera's internal meter.

That leaves me free to meter handheld, or use the sunny-16 rule and adjust as needed.

Everything else relies on the camera's meter, which is by definition a reflected meter. My mind works better using an incident meter, because I can imagine placing the white dome into whatever lighting condition I am metering (sunny, shady, etc) and know that I am metering an effective 18% gray. I don't have to think about what my subject is reflecting, and how that will skew my intended exposure.
02-06-2009, 03:51 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
There is nothing wrong with Av mode, and if you're completely satisfied with both the results it gives you and the amount of work it takes those results, there is no reason to change. For me, the decision to change was based on a combination of things mentioned here other factors.

- When using a manual exposure lens (eg, manual focus Pentax-M lenses), you *have* to use manual - Av doesn't work (it shoots wide open regardless of aperture ring setting). I shoot "M" lenses a lot, and got tired of having to change my thinking every time I changed lenses.

- As PentaxPoke mentioned, in some settings (*most* settings, I'd argue), light really doesn't change that much from shot to shot. If I'm going to take 100 pictures in the same light, there is no reason in the world they shouldn't all have the same exposure. "M" produces this result with the least work: hit green button once, then forget exposure and just shoot. If you use any auto-exposure mode, the exposure will likely vary from shot to shot depending on if it happens to contain mostly light obejcts or mostly dark objects.

- I do a lot of low light shooting where I basically have to underexposure to get a shot free of blur. By far the easiest and most consistent way to do this is to simply set the ISO, aperture, and shutter speed you want and then shoot. In an auto mode, it would be choosing far to slow a shutter speed by default, so I'd have to dial in negative exposure compensation - but the actual *amount* of compensation required to get the shutter speed I want would vary from shot to shot according to, again, the color of the objects in the scene, also whatever variations there is in the lighting. I can't afford to have the camera select too slow a shutter speed, just because one guy is wearing a white shirt doesn't mean I think I can get away with a faster shutter speed when shooting him, either.

- We all know a lot of scenes require some adjustment to the basic exposure you'd get by pointing and shooting in Av mode - backlit scenes will be underexposed, etc. There are basically two ways around this. One is to let the camera meter the scene then try to guess what kind of compensation is needed. the other is to force the camera to meter off something that *will* give the correct exposure (like metering off the ground first, then pointing at your backlit subject). The former strategy strikes me as a lot of guesswork, and whatever compensation setting you end up with is likely to apply to that shot only - you'd better remember to reset it for the next shot. The latter strategy makes way more sense to me - I meter off something that I think *will* give a good reading, then shoot away. And "M" mode fits that style of working very well - green button on the ground 9or whatever), then take as many shots as you want. With Av mode, you'd use AE-L in order to implement this approach, but then you have to worry about how long it stays in effect and remember to turn it off when you're done. but this whole mdoel of the metering sometiems working one way and sometimes working another, depending on whether you've got the lock on - that doesn't fit the way I think at all. I much prefer the "M" mode model of kowing the exposure is *always* locked until I change it. I make far fewer mistakes in "M" mode because it fits well with how I think.

So anyhow, "M" mode gives me the results I want with the least amount of thought and effort. I could in most cases duplicate the results with Av mode, but it would be more error-prone and take more effort to do the necessary overrides. The bottom line: I shoot "M" mode because it makes it easier and faster to get the results I want.

This almost exactly spells out how my strategy has evolved. And to add to this "do it yourself" mentalilty, I recently bought a split prism focusing screen to allow me to do that manually as well. My percentage of keepers continues to increase, after these changes from how I started out with this K10D nearly 2 years ago.
02-20-2009, 07:09 AM   #28
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I recently have taken "tungsten" pictures with more accurate results in "M" mode with my K110D.

When in Av mode under tungsten light my EV settings would have to be +.3
to +1 to get anything near what I wanted in both short and long exposures.
02-21-2009, 07:32 PM   #29
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I'm new to the forum, but have shot Manual for 50 years.
02-21-2009, 08:47 PM   #30
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I am not an expert but I have been shooting mostly manual. To me using a control like AV is like tying one hand behind your back. I shoot, then I look at the sample and the histogram comes up at the same time. Then if it looks over or under I only have to do one bracket change and I can decide by how much. I can't stand having to take 3 pictures every time when you may need to take only one. I also use the lowest ISO I can get away with. I do give aperture a lot of priority but I would miss controlling the other big players in the game, ISO and shutter speed.
That's why I shoot in manual most of the time.
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