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02-28-2009, 05:34 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
He's a handsome young man.
One way to take people pictures is to do 2 things. 1) Get close. 2) Then get closer.
Yes! I could not agree with this more.

Frankly, I use my 55-300 an awful lot in the 210-270mm range to stand off but get in close. Walking up to someone with a 50 and filling the frame is no way to get a good picture. As often as not the person will recoil and many will actually tell you to get out of their faces. Kids will, of course, reach out and touch the lens. Hell, I'd do all of the above. It is just not good camera etiquette. The 55-300 allows me to actually get some beautiful candids.

Fill the frame. If you can't, try cropping in.

Nothing really wrong with the picture you took. But also 1) Get close. 2) Then get closer.

woof!

02-28-2009, 06:23 AM   #17
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Reality..

I'm usually"talked into" doing people pictures. I understand my limitations, decide I won't do it, and then cave in. Gee, I've got all this great equiptment, I've read a hundred books and I understand the basics, what 's so hard?
Some of the greatest sports coaches never played the game, and although I know what to do, I don't know how to do it properly. You are not alone. People (posed) are the most difficult subject to do. I'm with you, my hat's off to the pros. Thank goodness for the "endless roll of film" we have.
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02-28-2009, 06:41 AM   #18
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I haven't figured out why yet but I have much better results shooting strangers than I do people I care about. I suspect it's because I know the people I care about and have emotional baggage and it isn't possible to get the "real" them in a photo. "No, that's not the Patricio I know and love." The old woman in the street is just that.

Get input from people, not necessarily photographers, who don't know your grandson. They won't know it isn't the "real" him and can give you good feedback. I have a photo of a gangster and his son on my wall. My friends who know him hate the photo because they know him. I don't know him well and love the photo.
02-28-2009, 10:39 AM   #19
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I would also lke to extend a welcome here!

Regarding shooting people - I find candids (including of musicians in concert, or of squirrels) are "easy", as the technical standards are different. Get a decently sharp picture with good exposure (whether that is achieved in camera or in PP) and that's about it for the technical side - mostly, candid photography is all about the moment captured and the way you incorporate the setting. A tremendous amount of luck and patience; some skill too, but it's not "technical" skill per se - it's more intangible. Whereas for portraits, all those intangible skills diminish in importance and are replaced by more technical skills involving posing & lighting that don't come up at all in candid photography, and a different "intangible" skill - putting your subejct at ease, finding the flattering angles, coaxing the "right" expressions, etc.

I'm still looking for a really good book on portrait photography. I've got Monte Zucker's, and while I really loved his columns in Shutterbug and found him inspirational in general, his book doesn't really do that much for me - leaves too many questions unanswered (I wonder if he would have added much to it had he lived to see its completion?). Others I've seen in stores deal with the technical aspects OK, but come off kind of dry in a way Zucker's columns did not.

02-28-2009, 12:49 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by woof Quote
Yes! I could not agree with this more.

Frankly, I use my 55-300 an awful lot in the 210-270mm range to stand off but get in close. Walking up to someone with a 50 and filling the frame is no way to get a good picture. As often as not the person will recoil and many will actually tell you to get out of their faces. Kids will, of course, reach out and touch the lens. Hell, I'd do all of the above. It is just not good camera etiquette. The 55-300 allows me to actually get some beautiful candids.

Fill the frame. If you can't, try cropping in.

Nothing really wrong with the picture you took. But also 1) Get close. 2) Then get closer.

woof!
Obviously there's more than 1 way to skin the proverbial cat.

Well, I never said getting physically close in with a camera is easy. The subject has to be at ease when you're that close, and that can take time and effort.

I remember reading about how some National Geographic photographers spend weeks getting to know the people they are photographing. That's a lot of work.
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I'm still looking for a really good book on portrait photography. I've got Monte Zucker's, and while I really loved his columns in Shutterbug and found him inspirational in general, his book doesn't really do that much for me - leaves too many questions unanswered (I wonder if he would have added much to it had he lived to see its completion?). Others I've seen in stores deal with the technical aspects OK, but come off kind of dry in a way Zucker's columns did not.
Monte had a great sense of humor and he used it to get the best out of his subjects.

I've got Monte Zucker's book and Bryan Peterson's Beyond Portraiture in front of me right now. I find these 2 books complement each other nicely. Peterson writes in a clear, succinct fashion and this book covers a lot of the techniques that Zucker's book doesn't.
02-28-2009, 02:14 PM   #22
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So this is where you took Festus off to for vacation! Good for DPR kicking you out since it got me to poke around here a bit more. Looks more relaxed and human.

I'll leave the technical advice to others.

I tend to take a bit of a confrontational approach to portraits. I ask someone to look into the lens. Think as if they are looking at someone they know. Usually people lose it after a few seconds, laugh, crack up. Self-consciousness. And this is the point I want to get people to. Have them dig into the anxiety and nervousness. Let them laugh, make faces at the camera, get the anxiety out and settle into themselves.

People have conditioned responses to having their picture taken. Established 'masks' that they can pull out and hold in place for a few seconds. The goal, I think, should be to get past these masks. Get someone comfortable in themselves and who they are showing the viewer.

So that's the key to me- have the person look at the viewer of the final image, not at the camera. Getting them to do this can take a little time, but I've never had anyone punch me for trying...


Last edited by dandaniel; 02-28-2009 at 10:25 PM.
03-02-2009, 02:34 PM   #23
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Rupert, I can only agree with other posters here, that portraiture is one of the more challenging subjects... I tend to prefer a controlled environment, especially with regards to light. Studio lighting makes things much easier.

Nevertheless the photograph you posted is a good one. You choose to place your subject in the shadow, to prevent excessive contrast. Colours are hard to judge, as the image has a very different amount of magenta when viewd here in the thread via my browser or when viewed with an external application. The excess magenta is much less with the external application - good.

I have a few suggestions for improvement:
  • I would prefer a slightly warmer light on the young man's face. A classical gold reflector would overdo that, but a slight adjustment of the colour temperature would do the skin tone good.
  • don't use the "high saturation" level in your camera for portraits - it brings out too much contrast in the skin tones
  • the same is for sharpness, you used max sharpness, which is not really friendly for portraits
  • you have basically done a good job with the fill flash. But there is still a very prominent bright sunlit area on the left of the young man's face. This is taking attention away from the more important parts. This sunlight oin the other hand, serves nicely to illustrate the advantage of a somewhat warmer light!

posing:
  • the right arm (left from viewer's postion) is spread someewhat out and I can see the background under his arm. That is not really compelling.
  • the hand under the chin is very prominent. In a portrait you usually aim to lead the viewer to the eyes of the subject - the hand is literally in the way.
  • there are too much folds and wrinkles i the jumper the young man wears, that I find very distracting

In general I would say, that this shot is undecided - is it a formal portrait (some elements are there) or is it casual (other elements are there). Neverthless it is pleasing and I am sure, the young man will be happy with shots like that.

Ben
03-02-2009, 04:10 PM   #24
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Hey Jim,

It's good to see you post again. I had good results using a gold reflector as mentioned above. I got mine a while back from Amvona for a good deal.
03-02-2009, 04:31 PM   #25
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People shots are difficult. You have to do them justice, if you know what i mean. They should look like they do in real life or better. I bet that's why many of us shot landscape/scenery and other "dead" objects

Try to use fill light with your AF-540 flash at -1 or -1,5 stop. A dome thing(you'll find some on ebay) would help spread the light from the flash more evenly and you could place some CTO gel inside to warm up the subject. Shot in RAW.

Ben had alot of good advices.

You can also make this picture alot better with only Adobe Camera Raw, I spent about 5-6 minutes with your picture in ACR 5.2 and it came out okey. You can do more with your original RAW file.

Send a PM if you want to look at the edited image, I won't post it here(without your approval).

Last edited by NorthPentax; 03-02-2009 at 04:53 PM. Reason: shabby englishshshsh
03-02-2009, 07:40 PM   #26
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Hi Rupert, I ran across an interesting site that has ten tutorials on numerous topics dealing with portraits. There are some great information for the beginner to the pro. and the exciting part is it's FREE. There are ten tops and they are broke down in individual lessons. They range from posing, background, head and shoulders, lighting and other topics. Anyone interested, this is the site, enjoy Benji's Studio Lighting and Posing Tutorial I'm sure anyone interested in portraits will find this useful.
03-03-2009, 10:03 AM   #27
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Skill and technique aside, the breakpoint for me comes when I "make" an image rather than "take" whatever appears.

Having said that, I don't do people on purpose so most of what I get is just luck if it's good. Helps if I minimize the variables; eg., no flash and try to only take shots in familiar available light situations - repeating what works. Subconsciously, I suppose I sort of just recognize a familiar situation that I know has worked in the past. If I HAD to shoot people, I'm sure I'd have start from scratch and pay serious attention to process.

I found that approach works best for me through years of doing techinical photos - what once required intentional lighting and exposure planning becomes second nature through habit and repetition. I suspect studio portriat work has a similiar advantage of known variables.

For me, Sunny Sixteen exposure and zone focus pre-sets are just second nature so I can concentrate on recognizing the exception to the pre-set conditions.

H2
03-03-2009, 02:19 PM   #28
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Eye-to-eye

" I ask someone to look into the lens. "

I've suggested that the "shootee" can see the eye of the "shooter" if they look back through the center of the lens. "Did ya notice you can see my eye. . ."

Not only does it almost always work, you get some interesting expressions too.

H2
03-03-2009, 04:01 PM   #29
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Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

You have a good start here - you have a nice background, and a suitable DOF to draw attention to the face of your subject.

The number one thing keeping this photo from it's full potential is the extra light on the side of your subject's face.

I learned after a couple of botched portraits that variable light = the devil when it comes to portrait photography. It looks weird, it distracts us from the eyes (which others have noted are the primary focus of a portrait) and it prevents even exposures from happening. There is no more agonizing environment to shoot portraits in than one where light is uneven. Shooting with sun coming through trees is the worst. One of those things that sounds nice, but puts zebra stripes over everyone's faces and makes even exposure impossible.

What would make this already good picture great is if his whole face were in shadow, and then the exposure was brought up a bit. Even in the worst, sunniest day, if you can find the shadowy side of a building/tree or whatever and keep your subject and background there, you will have smooth tones and flattering colors. If you've got something bland and uninteresting in the shadows, go there anyway and then take advantage of DOF tricks to render a smooth, out of focus background.


Of course, these are simple rules for consistent results, although with experience some photographers can do amazing things by breaking them. I usually make it a habit to start a shoot with something safe, if not stunning, to make sure the bread and butter is there, and then get more experimental and creative once some solid keepers are in the bag.
04-05-2009, 02:26 PM   #30
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Hey Jim,
Great seeing you on the forum. It created quite an outcry on DPr, when the junta expelled you


People photography can be very hard, especially if it is set-up situations, and many do a lot of post process work to shots taken.


Regarding closeness to the subject, sometimes getting too close, affect that they are not as natural. Also flash photography can be very tricky and difficult to fully control/master.
But as you say, trying is the best way, but still there is no substitute for experience.


(P.S. remember to customize this site, so you can follow threads etc.)
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