Always check the law

octavmandru · 03-27-2009, 08:42 PM

I ordered some items on internet, just before a price raise (2 days before).
The bill came with the new increased prices..
I called them, and they told me they have done a mistake. Changed the bill in an instant, and apologized.

MShawn63 · 03-28-2009, 10:40 AM

In this instance since Flyer paid cash at the time of the transaction, there can be no increase in the price, as the transaction was finalized once he handed the cash to the clerk and recieved his reciept. Flyer paid the price for the product at the time of purchase regardless of whether or not the product was backordered or the price increase that is scheduled for 1 April. The shopowner trying to change the price after the sale was completed was not appropriate and it should have been reported to the proper authorities.

Ira · 03-28-2009, 12:06 PM

Times are really tough, and I see a lot of businesspeople doing some sleazy things to make that extra buck here and there.

Not saying it's right at all, but I think that's the motivation here.:

You caught him doing something wrong, he knows it himself, and he feels so guilty about it--or feels bad because he couldn't get away with it--that he lashed out at you, telling you to never come back.

It's a human nature thing.

And times are SO bad that stores aren't looking at the long haul, the big picture, the repeat customer thing at all. They just want to put as many dollars as possible in that cash register TODAY.

raz-0 · 03-28-2009, 01:35 PM

I thinkthe only thing appropriate here is to inquire about the cost of filters when picking up the lens.

Then remind the dealer that you will ahve to spend your money elsewhere as your money isn't welcome there.

Stupid business practices shouldn't be rewarded.

TomK · 03-28-2009, 04:53 PM

"he told me not to come back after the transaction was completed"

Just for fun and to annoy him, I would ask him to put that in writing or else you plan to ignore it.
He of course wont.
Still, periodically I would drop by to look at camera bags, tripods, etc just to annoy him.
Unless something comes up that you can't pass up I would never buy from him again however.

-TomK-

stewart_photo · 03-28-2009, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by X Man

The dealer has no right to modify a contract, (smip)

Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price."

At that point (after calling to check his "rights"), the customer (and there's no nicer way to put this) decided to screw the dealer and stick to the original contract - which he knew benefited him and cost the dealer money. Under Canadian law, the customer was entirely within his "rights" to do that, just as the dealer was entirely within his "rights" to refuse to do business with a customer who intentionally screwed him out of money.

stewart

stewart_photo · 03-28-2009, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

(snip) Stewart, after all your postings about how the laws must be obeyed (trespassing at train stations, computer hacking, etc), I'm shocked that you would appear to be taking he side of someone who is tryng to get around obeying the law.

Again, read the orignal message in this thread. Absolutely no laws were violated here. The dealer is fulfilling the original contract, even if it means money out of his own pockets.

stewart

ghost · 03-28-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price."

At that point (after calling to check his "rights"), the customer (and there's no nicer way to put this) decided to screw the dealer and stick to the original contract - which he knew benefited him and cost the dealer money. Under Canadian law, the customer was entirely within his "rights" to do that, just as the dealer was entirely within his "rights" to refuse to do business with a customer who intentionally screwed him out of money.

stewart

So buying something before a well known price increase is screwing him out of money? Yes, the dealer looses money. Yes, he has the right to refuse business. But to say that it is okay for the customer to pay the price increase, which was not part of the original contract, is not in line with the law. A price (contract) was agreed upon, therefor changing after the fact is a breech of contract. which is illegal.

It is hard times for businesses, but to blatantly screw around with your remaining customers is not very bright to say the least.

stewart_photo · 03-28-2009, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by flyer

(snip) I'm pretty sure he is trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit, not because he is loosing money. (snip)

In an earlier message (#6), you said the dealer "..is quite reputable, and I've been dealing with him for a while..," yet here you're describing a criminal using fraud to rip you off. So which is it? Is he a reputable dealer who handles his customers (including you) fairly, as you said earlier, or a criminal "..trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit?"

To avoid any further argument, I'll leave the discussion at this point.

stewart

octavmandru · 03-28-2009, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price."

At that point (after calling to check his "rights"), the customer (and there's no nicer way to put this) decided to screw the dealer and stick to the original contract - which he knew benefited him and cost the dealer money. Under Canadian law, the customer was entirely within his "rights" to do that, just as the dealer was entirely within his "rights" to refuse to do business with a customer who intentionally screwed him out of money.

stewart

I don't get your point: shall I, as customer, accept to pay more money, after I payed the initial price? What kinda business is that?
Nobody would accept that!

MShawn63 · 03-28-2009, 08:35 PM

even if the equipment was back ordered the dealer already paid the supplier an agreed upon price for the equipment when he ordered it, which is generally net 30. The supplier will only charge the current price for the equipment at time of order and cannot charge the store more money for the equipment after the order is placed and accepted, even if there is a pending price increase. The customer in turn paid for the merchandise (in this case IN CASH) so the dealer was paid the fair market value for the product at the time of purchase and at the current price. The reciept the customer recieved is a legal binding contract that cannot be altered. The dealer did not lose any money on this sale all he tried to do was increase his profit by telling the customer he had to pay a price difference.

I have purchased numerous products from various sources and in some cases things were backordered and prices changed prior to my recieving the product. At no time was I ever asked to pay more for a product that I had ordered.

fkaufman · 03-29-2009, 01:55 AM

Something is definitely fishy here.

Any reputable supplier (and Pentax is one) will make an exception and honour the old (lower) price to one of their authorized resellers if their account is in good standing and state /prove that they have quoted a customer in good faith and are obligated to sell the item at the pre-increase price. It is a common, customary business practice.

If you are dealing with an honorable, properly authorized dealer who has a good standing with Pentax (meaning pays his bills to them when due), all it takes them is a phonecall to their salesrep at Pentax and the pre-increase price would be authorized. If this avenue isn't available to your dealer..., draw your own conclusion!

flyer · 03-29-2009, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

In an earlier message (#6), you said the dealer "..is quite reputable, and I've been dealing with him for a while..," yet here you're describing a criminal using fraud to rip you off. So which is it? Is he a reputable dealer who handles his customers (including you) fairly, as you said earlier, or a criminal "..trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit?"

To avoid any further argument, I'll leave the discussion at this point.

stewart

The dealer had a good reputation, but I'm entitled to change my view after he tries to steal me.

KrisK10D · 04-04-2009, 11:58 PM

Sounds like the dealer has 'found out' you're replacing insured items and attempted to get as much out of them (insurance company) as he could. When you pick up your purchase, go in there with a brochure for a DA*f2.8 50-135 and make sure he knows he's done himself out of another sale

Originally posted by stewart_photo

Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price."

.....

Stewart you take internet reading comprehension to a whole new sub-level!

Do you really think that calling a customer, who's already paid for his goods, and telling them they have 2 options, pay up or cancel, is not modifying a contract? Actually, I believe the original quote is the contract not just the bill of sale.

So, I'll make it simple for you... you can't change the price of an item you've already sold to someone. Sorry if 3 syllables is too hard for you to comprehend

Wheatfield · 04-05-2009, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by KrisK10D

Sounds like the dealer has 'found out' you're replacing insured items and attempted to get as much out of them (insurance company) as he could. When you pick up your purchase, go in there with a brochure for a DA*f2.8 50-135 and make sure he knows he's done himself out of another sale

Stewart you take internet reading comprehension to a whole new sub-level!

Do you really think that calling a customer, who's already paid for his goods, and telling them they have 2 options, pay up or cancel, is not modifying a contract? Actually, I believe the original quote is the contract not just the bill of sale.

So, I'll make it simple for you... you can't change the price of an item you've already sold to someone. Sorry if 3 syllables is too hard for you to comprehend

In Canada, a given quote will have an expiry date, after which all bets are off. Genrally a quote will be good for 15-30 days, after which the given price no longer must be honoured.
After a sale is made, with the purchase price paid in full, it is called a closed deal, and the price is immutable, and must be honoured by the dealer and his suppliers (Pentax in this instance).
Well, thats how it works everywhere but Quebec, anyway. Quebec law and Canadian law are not necessarily the same.

03-28-2009, 10:40 AM	#17
MShawn63 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 225	In this instance since Flyer paid cash at the time of the transaction, there can be no increase in the price, as the transaction was finalized once he handed the cash to the clerk and recieved his reciept. Flyer paid the price for the product at the time of purchase regardless of whether or not the product was backordered or the price increase that is scheduled for 1 April. The shopowner trying to change the price after the sale was completed was not appropriate and it should have been reported to the proper authorities. Last edited by MShawn63; 03-28-2009 at 10:41 AM. Reason: I really need spellchecking

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03-27-2009, 08:42 PM	#16
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	I ordered some items on internet, just before a price raise (2 days before). The bill came with the new increased prices.. I called them, and they told me they have done a mistake. Changed the bill in an instant, and apologized.

03-28-2009, 12:06 PM	#18
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Times are really tough, and I see a lot of businesspeople doing some sleazy things to make that extra buck here and there. Not saying it's right at all, but I think that's the motivation here.: You caught him doing something wrong, he knows it himself, and he feels so guilty about it--or feels bad because he couldn't get away with it--that he lashed out at you, telling you to never come back. It's a human nature thing. And times are SO bad that stores aren't looking at the long haul, the big picture, the repeat customer thing at all. They just want to put as many dollars as possible in that cash register TODAY.

03-28-2009, 01:35 PM	#19
raz-0 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 470	I thinkthe only thing appropriate here is to inquire about the cost of filters when picking up the lens. Then remind the dealer that you will ahve to spend your money elsewhere as your money isn't welcome there. Stupid business practices shouldn't be rewarded.

03-28-2009, 04:53 PM	#20
TomK Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NJ USA Posts: 281	"he told me not to come back after the transaction was completed" Just for fun and to annoy him, I would ask him to put that in writing or else you plan to ignore it. He of course wont. Still, periodically I would drop by to look at camera bags, tripods, etc just to annoy him. Unless something comes up that you can't pass up I would never buy from him again however. -TomK-

03-28-2009, 06:15 PM	#21
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by X Man The dealer has no right to modify a contract, (smip) Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price." At that point (after calling to check his "rights"), the customer (and there's no nicer way to put this) decided to screw the dealer and stick to the original contract - which he knew benefited him and cost the dealer money. Under Canadian law, the customer was entirely within his "rights" to do that, just as the dealer was entirely within his "rights" to refuse to do business with a customer who intentionally screwed him out of money. stewart

03-28-2009, 06:21 PM	#22
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by Wheatfield (snip) Stewart, after all your postings about how the laws must be obeyed (trespassing at train stations, computer hacking, etc), I'm shocked that you would appear to be taking he side of someone who is tryng to get around obeying the law. Again, read the orignal message in this thread. Absolutely no laws were violated here. The dealer is fulfilling the original contract, even if it means money out of his own pockets. stewart

03-28-2009, 06:33 PM	#23
ghost Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Barrie, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 174	Originally posted by stewart_photo Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price." At that point (after calling to check his "rights"), the customer (and there's no nicer way to put this) decided to screw the dealer and stick to the original contract - which he knew benefited him and cost the dealer money. Under Canadian law, the customer was entirely within his "rights" to do that, just as the dealer was entirely within his "rights" to refuse to do business with a customer who intentionally screwed him out of money. stewart So buying something before a well known price increase is screwing him out of money? Yes, the dealer looses money. Yes, he has the right to refuse business. But to say that it is okay for the customer to pay the price increase, which was not part of the original contract, is not in line with the law. A price (contract) was agreed upon, therefor changing after the fact is a breech of contract. which is illegal. It is hard times for businesses, but to blatantly screw around with your remaining customers is not very bright to say the least.

03-28-2009, 06:52 PM	#24
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by flyer (snip) I'm pretty sure he is trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit, not because he is loosing money. (snip) In an earlier message (#6), you said the dealer "..is quite reputable, and I've been dealing with him for a while..," yet here you're describing a criminal using fraud to rip you off. So which is it? Is he a reputable dealer who handles his customers (including you) fairly, as you said earlier, or a criminal "..trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit?" To avoid any further argument, I'll leave the discussion at this point. stewart

03-28-2009, 07:01 PM	#25
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Originally posted by stewart_photo Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price." At that point (after calling to check his "rights"), the customer (and there's no nicer way to put this) decided to screw the dealer and stick to the original contract - which he knew benefited him and cost the dealer money. Under Canadian law, the customer was entirely within his "rights" to do that, just as the dealer was entirely within his "rights" to refuse to do business with a customer who intentionally screwed him out of money. stewart I don't get your point: shall I, as customer, accept to pay more money, after I payed the initial price? What kinda business is that? Nobody would accept that!

03-28-2009, 08:35 PM	#26
MShawn63 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 225	even if the equipment was back ordered the dealer already paid the supplier an agreed upon price for the equipment when he ordered it, which is generally net 30. The supplier will only charge the current price for the equipment at time of order and cannot charge the store more money for the equipment after the order is placed and accepted, even if there is a pending price increase. The customer in turn paid for the merchandise (in this case IN CASH) so the dealer was paid the fair market value for the product at the time of purchase and at the current price. The reciept the customer recieved is a legal binding contract that cannot be altered. The dealer did not lose any money on this sale all he tried to do was increase his profit by telling the customer he had to pay a price difference. I have purchased numerous products from various sources and in some cases things were backordered and prices changed prior to my recieving the product. At no time was I ever asked to pay more for a product that I had ordered.

03-29-2009, 01:55 AM	#27
fkaufman Closed Account Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 9	Something is definitely fishy here. Any reputable supplier (and Pentax is one) will make an exception and honour the old (lower) price to one of their authorized resellers if their account is in good standing and state /prove that they have quoted a customer in good faith and are obligated to sell the item at the pre-increase price. It is a common, customary business practice. If you are dealing with an honorable, properly authorized dealer who has a good standing with Pentax (meaning pays his bills to them when due), all it takes them is a phonecall to their salesrep at Pentax and the pre-increase price would be authorized. If this avenue isn't available to your dealer..., draw your own conclusion!

03-29-2009, 04:34 AM	#28
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013 Original Poster	Originally posted by stewart_photo In an earlier message (#6), you said the dealer "..is quite reputable, and I've been dealing with him for a while..," yet here you're describing a criminal using fraud to rip you off. So which is it? Is he a reputable dealer who handles his customers (including you) fairly, as you said earlier, or a criminal "..trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit?" To avoid any further argument, I'll leave the discussion at this point. stewart The dealer had a good reputation, but I'm entitled to change my view after he tries to steal me.

04-04-2009, 11:58 PM	#29
KrisK10D Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,274	Sounds like the dealer has 'found out' you're replacing insured items and attempted to get as much out of them (insurance company) as he could. When you pick up your purchase, go in there with a brochure for a DA*f2.8 50-135 and make sure he knows he's done himself out of another sale Originally posted by stewart_photo Read the orignal message in this thread again. The dealer (shop owner) did not modify the contract. Instead, he called the customer to explain the situation and than asked that customer to agree to a change. The original message said, "He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price." ..... Stewart you take internet reading comprehension to a whole new sub-level! Do you really think that calling a customer, who's already paid for his goods, and telling them they have 2 options, pay up or cancel, is not modifying a contract? Actually, I believe the original quote is the contract not just the bill of sale. So, I'll make it simple for you... you can't change the price of an item you've already sold to someone. Sorry if 3 syllables is too hard for you to comprehend

04-05-2009, 06:59 AM	#30
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by KrisK10D Sounds like the dealer has 'found out' you're replacing insured items and attempted to get as much out of them (insurance company) as he could. When you pick up your purchase, go in there with a brochure for a DA*f2.8 50-135 and make sure he knows he's done himself out of another sale Stewart you take internet reading comprehension to a whole new sub-level! Do you really think that calling a customer, who's already paid for his goods, and telling them they have 2 options, pay up or cancel, is not modifying a contract? Actually, I believe the original quote is the contract not just the bill of sale. So, I'll make it simple for you... you can't change the price of an item you've already sold to someone. Sorry if 3 syllables is too hard for you to comprehend In Canada, a given quote will have an expiry date, after which all bets are off. Genrally a quote will be good for 15-30 days, after which the given price no longer must be honoured. After a sale is made, with the purchase price paid in full, it is called a closed deal, and the price is immutable, and must be honoured by the dealer and his suppliers (Pentax in this instance). Well, thats how it works everywhere but Quebec, anyway. Quebec law and Canadian law are not necessarily the same.