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Gooshin · 03-28-2009, 07:39 PM

so i have been reading the strobist site lately and want to give the 2-flash setup a try.

however what i have been wondering about is which way to go with the flashguns

i currently own the FA 540 FGZ, and contrary to what i have been reading over the last 2 years, it performs really well, (atleast, i have never though of any of its properties to be limiting)

so what i'm trying to research now is how to spend my money on the 2nd flash

i can either do the strobist recomendation, and pick up 2 (relativly inexpensive) manual flashes

the LumoPro seems to be getting good reviews (Strobist: Manual Flashes: Two Debuts and an Adoption) and is cheap at @ 130 bucks.

so i can theoretically sell my 540 and buy two of these?

my other options are to buy a second 540, only i'm doubting this plan of action as it seems many of the features on the 540 are lost if i just use it as a slave, not to mention it being an expensive unit.

and a third option i'm thinking is buying the AF 360 FGZ, but one question i could not find an answer to is if its OKAY to use different types of external flashes together (would the results be LESS predictable, requiring more time for adjustment?)

any input is appreciated.

Paul Hunt · 03-28-2009, 08:39 PM

Provided you use the P-TTL flashes manually (that is, the flash set to manual mode), they should operate in a predictable way with other flashes.

Maybe you could buy one LumoPro, keep the 540, and put some cash aside to get a flashmeter like a Sekonic L-358.

Personally, I would miss the additional auto features and power of the 540 (well, in my case, the Metz 58).

Just my 2 cents.

Paul

**DAZ** · 03-28-2009, 08:40 PM

It is OK to use different flash units and in theory would make the setup less predictable but make any change (dissents, diffuser, gels) would make that a wash. Once it is setup in manual the outcome is predictable. Having different flash units means having different controls to learn and use. The controls for the different units are not that hard to use but if that is important to you stay with the 540. The 540 is a powerful flash so you may for the next flash may like to go lighter. If you get the 360 you can try a flash on a pole technique and use the onboard flash using P-TTL. With a flash like the 360 or 540 you can use HSS or just go wireless manual. There is a LOT you can do with the 2 flashes and the onboard flash. By the time you add umbrellas, stands, cables, diffusers, gels, snoots, GoBos, grids, ect it may be awhile before you feel the need for more flash units. Maybe get 1 or 2 very small dumb low power (under $50) for highlighting a spot. Have fun.

DAZ

**Canada_Rockies** · 03-28-2009, 08:48 PM

You can use any combination of FGZ flashes and the built in to do contrast control. Check page 36 in the 540 manual. I know it's short and not terribly helpful, but I did a CC flash using the built in at -1 stop and the 540 in wireless at full, and got a fine result. I have only tested the flash, since I got it very recently, so don't ask me too much!

kenyee · 03-28-2009, 08:55 PM

people do strobist w/ CLS...
I have 4 flashes

mattrickman · 03-28-2009, 09:42 PM

I would get a handfull of Vivitar 285 flashes (about $90 each). And then some cactus triggers.

IMHO you don't want to be messing around with PTTL with multiple flashes. You generally want to set the flashes up completely manual, and your camera as well. Then you can get predictable results.

For now though, you can use the 540 off camera in wireless mode completely manual.

FWIW - I have 2 360's and 1 540. The 540 is nice for on-camera work. For that I almost always use P-TTL. But again, for strobist work, manual is the way to go, and a 540 manual isn't really different than any other flash in manual (power being equal)...

Hope this helps.

matt rickman
colorado

mattrickman · 03-28-2009, 09:45 PM

just read about the vivitar QC issues. That is really a bummer if it is true. I have owned that flash in the past, and it was a work horse.....

matt rickman
colorado

Venturi · 03-28-2009, 11:06 PM

I have a pair of Vivitar 285HVs and an AF540FGZ. The 285s are indeed workhorses and if you can find pre-Cactus versions they're still a viable option.
But - those LP120s do look pretty snazzy - they're based off the 285 "idea". But they give you six stops of power versus 4 levels (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/16 skipping 1/8th) on the 285, both PC and 3.5mm miniphone sync sockets, an optical slave and 270 degree swivel really makes them a no brainer. If I were buying today thats what I'd go for.

I would not get rid of the 540 though. The additional power and the convenience of having P-TTL/TTL available is not something I would want to lose. If I'm shooting candids and need to bounce some light its the flash I reach for. All you really lose off-camera using triggers and the 540 is the TTL end of things. You can still adjust zoom and power which is all the P-TTL circuitry is really controlling anyway.

As far as using the 540 alongside other manual flashes for off-camera work goes, I do it fairly often. I'll use the 285s as my key and fill lights. Since they are "matched" it is easier to set them up against each other. But then I'll use the 540 for hair light, gelling the background, etc.

MPrince · 03-29-2009, 05:09 AM

I've been doing strobist photography for a couple of years now. I use flashes strictly in manual mode, and so my recommendation would be to pickup a couple of used Nikon SB-24s. Or, for a little more money, the SB-26 has built in optical slave.

**DAZ** · 03-29-2009, 08:08 AM

Having at least 2 P-TTL capable flash units allows you to do off camera HS. Having 2 P-TTL capable flash units allows you to do off camera contrast control. Past 2 P-TTL capable flash units it probably becomes better to put the flash in all manual. Both the 540 &360 units (and some other P-TTL units) can be used in full manual and have built in optical slave control. These units can also use other radio wireless control systems. By having at least the 2 P-TTL capable flash units you keep the most options and can build out your kit with more cheaper manual units as you need them.

Definitely keep the 540 as you will not find a flash unit with significantly more power and have all the options in that size/price range. I think you should get at least 1 more P-TTL capable flash unit but past that the value become less.

DAZ

Gooshin · 03-29-2009, 08:39 AM

thanks everyone!

i think in light of all the comments i will probably pick up the 360, and go from there, it is only marginally more expensive than the LumoPro with the only lacking feature of not being able to swivl, ohh well.

khardur · 03-29-2009, 10:52 AM

Plus with the 540 doesn't that give you high speed sync capability as well? Just one added option that you don't necessarily want to get rid of since you already have it.

I wouldn't see the swivel being that big of a necessity if you're using the flash on a stand or held by an assistant so you can aim it where you want anyhow. (not as hard to work around as say not having swivel when the flash is mounted directly on the hotshoe) I guess it depends on how well the 540 and the 360 sync together if the slave isn't facing the master, but I have neither so I couldn't comment on that.

Oldphoto678 · 03-29-2009, 11:14 AM

I guess I could be called the frugal strobist. Heres what I've been using for several years. 4 speed lights (2 285HV's, 2 283's, 4 mini slave flashes) w/cactus triggers. That and some ND gels, stands, umbrellas, and a few odds and ends have served me well. I will admitt that this isn't the fastest or easy to use set-up, but it works for me, and the total cost has been less than the price of a new SB-800.

I mentioned the ND gels just to make the point that you can controle light output on any strobe.

Rodney...

mattrickman · 03-29-2009, 03:43 PM

Rodney. What has been your experience with the cactus triggers?

matt rickman
colorado

khardur · 03-29-2009, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Oldphoto678

I guess I could be called the frugal strobist. Heres what I've been using for several years. 4 speed lights (2 285HV's, 2 283's, 4 mini slave flashes) w/cactus triggers. That and some ND gels, stands, umbrellas, and a few odds and ends have served me well. I will admitt that this isn't the fastest or easy to use set-up, but it works for me, and the total cost has been less than the price of a new SB-800.

I mentioned the ND gels just to make the point that you can controle light output on any strobe.

Rodney...

I had a set of cactus triggers - They worked fine for about 6 months, then something in them fried and now if I connect a flash to the receiver it just continuously fires every 2 sec or so.

I think my next big photo purchase will be a quality set of triggers. They do cost a pretty penny though compared to the el cheapo ones...

03-28-2009, 07:39 PM	#1
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	adopting the strobist philosophy so i have been reading the strobist site lately and want to give the 2-flash setup a try. however what i have been wondering about is which way to go with the flashguns i currently own the FA 540 FGZ, and contrary to what i have been reading over the last 2 years, it performs really well, (atleast, i have never though of any of its properties to be limiting) so what i'm trying to research now is how to spend my money on the 2nd flash i can either do the strobist recomendation, and pick up 2 (relativly inexpensive) manual flashes the LumoPro seems to be getting good reviews (Strobist: Manual Flashes: Two Debuts and an Adoption) and is cheap at @ 130 bucks. so i can theoretically sell my 540 and buy two of these? my other options are to buy a second 540, only i'm doubting this plan of action as it seems many of the features on the 540 are lost if i just use it as a slave, not to mention it being an expensive unit. and a third option i'm thinking is buying the AF 360 FGZ, but one question i could not find an answer to is if its OKAY to use different types of external flashes together (would the results be LESS predictable, requiring more time for adjustment?) any input is appreciated.

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03-28-2009, 08:39 PM	#2
Paul Hunt Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 81	Provided you use the P-TTL flashes manually (that is, the flash set to manual mode), they should operate in a predictable way with other flashes. Maybe you could buy one LumoPro, keep the 540, and put some cash aside to get a flashmeter like a Sekonic L-358. Personally, I would miss the additional auto features and power of the 540 (well, in my case, the Metz 58). Just my 2 cents. Paul

03-28-2009, 08:40 PM	#3
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	It is OK to use different flash units and in theory would make the setup less predictable but make any change (dissents, diffuser, gels) would make that a wash. Once it is setup in manual the outcome is predictable. Having different flash units means having different controls to learn and use. The controls for the different units are not that hard to use but if that is important to you stay with the 540. The 540 is a powerful flash so you may for the next flash may like to go lighter. If you get the 360 you can try a flash on a pole technique and use the onboard flash using P-TTL. With a flash like the 360 or 540 you can use HSS or just go wireless manual. There is a LOT you can do with the 2 flashes and the onboard flash. By the time you add umbrellas, stands, cables, diffusers, gels, snoots, GoBos, grids, ect it may be awhile before you feel the need for more flash units. Maybe get 1 or 2 very small dumb low power (under $50) for highlighting a spot. Have fun. DAZ

03-28-2009, 08:48 PM	#4
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	You can use any combination of FGZ flashes and the built in to do contrast control. Check page 36 in the 540 manual. I know it's short and not terribly helpful, but I did a CC flash using the built in at -1 stop and the 540 in wireless at full, and got a fine result. I have only tested the flash, since I got it very recently, so don't ask me too much!

03-28-2009, 08:55 PM	#5
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	people do strobist w/ CLS... I have 4 flashes

03-28-2009, 09:42 PM	#6
mattrickman Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 30	I would get a handfull of Vivitar 285 flashes (about $90 each). And then some cactus triggers. IMHO you don't want to be messing around with PTTL with multiple flashes. You generally want to set the flashes up completely manual, and your camera as well. Then you can get predictable results. For now though, you can use the 540 off camera in wireless mode completely manual. FWIW - I have 2 360's and 1 540. The 540 is nice for on-camera work. For that I almost always use P-TTL. But again, for strobist work, manual is the way to go, and a 540 manual isn't really different than any other flash in manual (power being equal)... Hope this helps. matt rickman colorado

03-28-2009, 09:45 PM	#7
mattrickman Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 30	just read about the vivitar QC issues. That is really a bummer if it is true. I have owned that flash in the past, and it was a work horse..... matt rickman colorado

03-28-2009, 11:06 PM	#8
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	I have a pair of Vivitar 285HVs and an AF540FGZ. The 285s are indeed workhorses and if you can find pre-Cactus versions they're still a viable option. But - those LP120s do look pretty snazzy - they're based off the 285 "idea". But they give you six stops of power versus 4 levels (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/16 skipping 1/8th) on the 285, both PC and 3.5mm miniphone sync sockets, an optical slave and 270 degree swivel really makes them a no brainer. If I were buying today thats what I'd go for. I would not get rid of the 540 though. The additional power and the convenience of having P-TTL/TTL available is not something I would want to lose. If I'm shooting candids and need to bounce some light its the flash I reach for. All you really lose off-camera using triggers and the 540 is the TTL end of things. You can still adjust zoom and power which is all the P-TTL circuitry is really controlling anyway. As far as using the 540 alongside other manual flashes for off-camera work goes, I do it fairly often. I'll use the 285s as my key and fill lights. Since they are "matched" it is easier to set them up against each other. But then I'll use the 540 for hair light, gelling the background, etc.

03-29-2009, 05:09 AM	#9
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	I've been doing strobist photography for a couple of years now. I use flashes strictly in manual mode, and so my recommendation would be to pickup a couple of used Nikon SB-24s. Or, for a little more money, the SB-26 has built in optical slave.

03-29-2009, 08:08 AM	#10
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	Having at least 2 P-TTL capable flash units allows you to do off camera HS. Having 2 P-TTL capable flash units allows you to do off camera contrast control. Past 2 P-TTL capable flash units it probably becomes better to put the flash in all manual. Both the 540 &360 units (and some other P-TTL units) can be used in full manual and have built in optical slave control. These units can also use other radio wireless control systems. By having at least the 2 P-TTL capable flash units you keep the most options and can build out your kit with more cheaper manual units as you need them. Definitely keep the 540 as you will not find a flash unit with significantly more power and have all the options in that size/price range. I think you should get at least 1 more P-TTL capable flash unit but past that the value become less. DAZ

03-29-2009, 08:39 AM	#11
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610 Original Poster	thanks everyone! i think in light of all the comments i will probably pick up the 360, and go from there, it is only marginally more expensive than the LumoPro with the only lacking feature of not being able to swivl, ohh well.

03-29-2009, 10:52 AM	#12
khardur Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Massachusetts Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,560	Plus with the 540 doesn't that give you high speed sync capability as well? Just one added option that you don't necessarily want to get rid of since you already have it. I wouldn't see the swivel being that big of a necessity if you're using the flash on a stand or held by an assistant so you can aim it where you want anyhow. (not as hard to work around as say not having swivel when the flash is mounted directly on the hotshoe) I guess it depends on how well the 540 and the 360 sync together if the slave isn't facing the master, but I have neither so I couldn't comment on that.

03-29-2009, 11:14 AM	#13
Oldphoto678 Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Athens GA. Posts: 98	I guess I could be called the frugal strobist. Heres what I've been using for several years. 4 speed lights (2 285HV's, 2 283's, 4 mini slave flashes) w/cactus triggers. That and some ND gels, stands, umbrellas, and a few odds and ends have served me well. I will admitt that this isn't the fastest or easy to use set-up, but it works for me, and the total cost has been less than the price of a new SB-800. I mentioned the ND gels just to make the point that you can controle light output on any strobe. Rodney...

03-29-2009, 03:43 PM	#14
mattrickman Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 30	Rodney. What has been your experience with the cactus triggers? matt rickman colorado

03-29-2009, 04:09 PM	#15
khardur Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Massachusetts Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,560	Originally posted by Oldphoto678 I guess I could be called the frugal strobist. Heres what I've been using for several years. 4 speed lights (2 285HV's, 2 283's, 4 mini slave flashes) w/cactus triggers. That and some ND gels, stands, umbrellas, and a few odds and ends have served me well. I will admitt that this isn't the fastest or easy to use set-up, but it works for me, and the total cost has been less than the price of a new SB-800. I mentioned the ND gels just to make the point that you can controle light output on any strobe. Rodney... I had a set of cactus triggers - They worked fine for about 6 months, then something in them fried and now if I connect a flash to the receiver it just continuously fires every 2 sec or so. I think my next big photo purchase will be a quality set of triggers. They do cost a pretty penny though compared to the el cheapo ones...

adopting the strobist philosophy

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