Advice needed for Oil painting photography

winglik · 04-24-2009, 02:42 PM

Hi all, I need to photography Oil paintings for my gallery to post online, sizes up to 10ft, I tried 2 umbrella light set at each end at 45 degrees. However, there are still notable reflected spot on the surface, specially on the frame (some are metal frame), What's the best way to shoot Oil painting photography so that there won't be any light spot or reflection on the frame? thanx all

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-24-2009, 02:52 PM

I would take the photos in your studio, using natural light from a large North facing window, if you have one. If not, a cloudy day might do the trick. That way you can see the reflections, if any and juggle things to reduce them. You might also find that a polarizing filter reduces the last of the reflections.

woof · 04-24-2009, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by winglik

Hi all, I need to photography Oil paintings for my gallery to post online, sizes up to 10ft, I tried 2 umbrella light set at each end at 45 degrees. However, there are still notable reflected spot on the surface, specially on the frame (some are metal frame), What's the best way to shoot Oil painting photography so that there won't be any light spot or reflection on the frame? thanx all

The following has worked well for me.

Photographing paintings

woof!

winglik · 04-24-2009, 11:07 PM

thanx for the info, From the pictures on the site, there are still visible light spot on the frame, anyway to eliminate those light spot?

Urmas R. · 04-25-2009, 01:51 AM

Did you try a polarizer as suggested? Should help with reflections on the frame. I'd also position the lights at a very narrow angle and rather far away.

flyer · 04-25-2009, 02:56 AM

You can likely eliminate the reflections by using a set up where the camera is not completely parallel to the painting. The slight distortion it will produce can be corrected in most post processing program.

Ben_Edict · 04-25-2009, 04:08 AM

The reflections on the frames are a problem, that you cannot elimiate, as the old-time frames are curved and one part or the other will reflect light directly into your camera, however you position the lights. What you need to do is, control these reflections!

First I must confess, that I never have done that particular kind of shooting myself, so what I will recommend is based on reading and theory:

I would simply not use brollies. Place large transparent scrims, at least as high as the painting, better, even higher, besides the paintings and place your lights farther away behind the scrims to illuminate these fully. These scrims will spread the light more evenly and over a large area. You will still get reflections, but they will by very evenly and then harldy noticeable as reflections, as they will not be specular and you won't have the tell-tale non-reflecting parts.

Otherwise for reproducing paintings one would usually place polarizers in front of the light sources (both with the same angle of rotation) and an additional polarizer on camera and is thus be able to eliminate most if not all reflections. But I do not really know, whether this would work on golden frames, if they have a real leaf gilding.

Ben

Last edited by Ben_Edict; 04-25-2009 at 04:13 AM.

MPrince · 04-25-2009, 04:19 AM

You need to place your light sources outside the family of angles. I would recommend the book Light: Science and Magic. It's pricey but worth it. There are diagrams that illustrate the light placement that do a far better job than any words I can come up with, especially right now, as I am still on my first cup of coffee.

Edit: also look here:

http://www.diyphotography.net/my-mother-in-law-and-the-family-of-angles

This is cheaper than buying the book to address your specific issue, but I still recommend buying the book.

Ben_Edict · 04-25-2009, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by MPrince

You need to place your light sources outside the family of angles. I would recommend the book Light: Science and Magic. It's pricey but worth it. There are diagrams that illustrate the light placement that do a far better job than any words I can come up with, especially right now, as I am still on my first cup of coffee.

Edit: also look here:

My Mother in Law and the Family of Angles (an Intro) | DIYPhotography.net

This is cheaper than buying the book to address your specific issue, but I still recommend buying the book.

Light Science and Magic is a great read and I would second your recommendation. I am just reading though it and that is the reason why I recommended the scrims.

Ben

Marc Sabatella · 04-25-2009, 10:04 AM

I've never tried photographing paintings in frames before - I usually shoot before framing, and when in a pinch I've been forced to photograph something already framed, I crop the frame out.

But I'm guessing my basic approach will still work decently well for you:

Yeah, I know about the whole two light sources at 45 degree angle thing, polarizers, and all that. And I'm sure if you really nail everything in that setup, it will work But I've found the attempt far more frustrating than it's worth. Worked fine for pastels, which are always flat, but with oil, and impasto brushtrokes may still catch reflections.

So I chucked all that and take my paintings outside in the shade or on an overcast day. Might not work as well as a *perfectly* set up two-light / polarizer rig, but it works much better than any of my attempts. The light is very even, flat, and plentiful. I suspect it would do well on ornate frames, too.

creampuff · 04-25-2009, 11:11 AM

Umbrellas may not be the best light modifier for such a set-up as they typically provide a diffused light source around a bright core.
I would use softboxes with a grid attachment to give greater control of the light direction and contain any light spill.

manualcrank · 04-25-2009, 12:36 PM

An artist friend take pictures of his work on the roof on overcast days. Works brilliantly for him, ideal for pp, no special lighting or filters.

debbie · 04-26-2009, 10:03 PM

I have also got the best results shooting outside on an overcast day.

Niki · 04-27-2009, 08:16 AM

I must agree with the others on the outside on a cloudy day...or under a covered patio?
This is a shot of a painting I did last summer. I set it out on the brick edge of my house under the back patio cover.
I think it turned out decent. This of course is down sized a lot....the big pic of it is almost 4 megs and looks MUCH better.

opfor · 05-02-2009, 02:37 AM

I hate to put this in here as it's a non-photographic option, but if you have a time deadline you can always burn highlights and midtones at about 4 percent with a large-ish brush. Especially if it's only the frames that are giving you problems.
Not a photo option, but it might come in handy if you don't have time to wait for the weather to change.

04-24-2009, 02:42 PM	#1
winglik Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 258	Advice needed for Oil painting photography Hi all, I need to photography Oil paintings for my gallery to post online, sizes up to 10ft, I tried 2 umbrella light set at each end at 45 degrees. However, there are still notable reflected spot on the surface, specially on the frame (some are metal frame), What's the best way to shoot Oil painting photography so that there won't be any light spot or reflection on the frame? thanx all

04-25-2009, 04:19 AM	#8
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	You need to place your light sources outside the family of angles. I would recommend the book Light: Science and Magic. It's pricey but worth it. There are diagrams that illustrate the light placement that do a far better job than any words I can come up with, especially right now, as I am still on my first cup of coffee. Edit: also look here: http://www.diyphotography.net/my-mother-in-law-and-the-family-of-angles This is cheaper than buying the book to address your specific issue, but I still recommend buying the book. Last edited by MPrince; 04-25-2009 at 04:26 AM.

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04-24-2009, 02:52 PM	#2
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	I would take the photos in your studio, using natural light from a large North facing window, if you have one. If not, a cloudy day might do the trick. That way you can see the reflections, if any and juggle things to reduce them. You might also find that a polarizing filter reduces the last of the reflections.

04-24-2009, 08:45 PM	#3
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by winglik Hi all, I need to photography Oil paintings for my gallery to post online, sizes up to 10ft, I tried 2 umbrella light set at each end at 45 degrees. However, there are still notable reflected spot on the surface, specially on the frame (some are metal frame), What's the best way to shoot Oil painting photography so that there won't be any light spot or reflection on the frame? thanx all The following has worked well for me. Photographing paintings woof!

04-24-2009, 11:07 PM	#4
winglik Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 258 Original Poster	thanx for the info, From the pictures on the site, there are still visible light spot on the frame, anyway to eliminate those light spot?

04-25-2009, 01:51 AM	#5
Urmas R. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 179	Did you try a polarizer as suggested? Should help with reflections on the frame. I'd also position the lights at a very narrow angle and rather far away.

04-25-2009, 02:56 AM	#6
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	You can likely eliminate the reflections by using a set up where the camera is not completely parallel to the painting. The slight distortion it will produce can be corrected in most post processing program.

04-25-2009, 04:08 AM	#7
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	The reflections on the frames are a problem, that you cannot elimiate, as the old-time frames are curved and one part or the other will reflect light directly into your camera, however you position the lights. What you need to do is, control these reflections! First I must confess, that I never have done that particular kind of shooting myself, so what I will recommend is based on reading and theory: I would simply not use brollies. Place large transparent scrims, at least as high as the painting, better, even higher, besides the paintings and place your lights farther away behind the scrims to illuminate these fully. These scrims will spread the light more evenly and over a large area. You will still get reflections, but they will by very evenly and then harldy noticeable as reflections, as they will not be specular and you won't have the tell-tale non-reflecting parts. Otherwise for reproducing paintings one would usually place polarizers in front of the light sources (both with the same angle of rotation) and an additional polarizer on camera and is thus be able to eliminate most if not all reflections. But I do not really know, whether this would work on golden frames, if they have a real leaf gilding. Ben Last edited by Ben_Edict; 04-25-2009 at 04:13 AM.

04-25-2009, 04:29 AM	#9
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by MPrince You need to place your light sources outside the family of angles. I would recommend the book Light: Science and Magic. It's pricey but worth it. There are diagrams that illustrate the light placement that do a far better job than any words I can come up with, especially right now, as I am still on my first cup of coffee. Edit: also look here: My Mother in Law and the Family of Angles (an Intro) \| DIYPhotography.net This is cheaper than buying the book to address your specific issue, but I still recommend buying the book. Light Science and Magic is a great read and I would second your recommendation. I am just reading though it and that is the reason why I recommended the scrims. Ben

04-25-2009, 10:04 AM	#10
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I've never tried photographing paintings in frames before - I usually shoot before framing, and when in a pinch I've been forced to photograph something already framed, I crop the frame out. But I'm guessing my basic approach will still work decently well for you: Yeah, I know about the whole two light sources at 45 degree angle thing, polarizers, and all that. And I'm sure if you really nail everything in that setup, it will work But I've found the attempt far more frustrating than it's worth. Worked fine for pastels, which are always flat, but with oil, and impasto brushtrokes may still catch reflections. So I chucked all that and take my paintings outside in the shade or on an overcast day. Might not work as well as a perfectly set up two-light / polarizer rig, but it works much better than any of my attempts. The light is very even, flat, and plentiful. I suspect it would do well on ornate frames, too.

04-25-2009, 11:11 AM	#11
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Umbrellas may not be the best light modifier for such a set-up as they typically provide a diffused light source around a bright core. I would use softboxes with a grid attachment to give greater control of the light direction and contain any light spill.

04-25-2009, 12:36 PM	#12
manualcrank New Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 9	An artist friend take pictures of his work on the roof on overcast days. Works brilliantly for him, ideal for pp, no special lighting or filters.

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04-26-2009, 10:03 PM	#13
debbie Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: stockholm Photos: Albums Posts: 111	I have also got the best results shooting outside on an overcast day.

04-27-2009, 08:16 AM	#14
Niki Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 244	I must agree with the others on the outside on a cloudy day...or under a covered patio? This is a shot of a painting I did last summer. I set it out on the brick edge of my house under the back patio cover. I think it turned out decent. This of course is down sized a lot....the big pic of it is almost 4 megs and looks MUCH better.

05-02-2009, 02:37 AM	#15
opfor Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Albums Posts: 276	I hate to put this in here as it's a non-photographic option, but if you have a time deadline you can always burn highlights and midtones at about 4 percent with a large-ish brush. Especially if it's only the frames that are giving you problems. Not a photo option, but it might come in handy if you don't have time to wait for the weather to change.