[Ash]

There are lots of reasons why a 'newbie' may not know or have access to the 'basics' of photography, and so ask questions that make others roll their eyes in disdain.

It's easy to pass judgement, but that says more about the responder than it does about the newbie.
There really is no point in humiliating the person asking a 'dumb' question - that would hardly teach him/her to fish...

I'll echo Peter's original point:
A simple question asked (not just by newbies), whether or not it takes one or a hundred minutes to find the answer on the net, can be answered kindly in a few words, harshly in a few more words, or not at all; preferably by the first or last methods...

Forum etiquette aside, there is a question of maturity here. We're all grownups on this forum and it works both ways. Sometimes those subtle insults become insults only because the person the comment is aimed at chooses to have the immaturity to take it as an insult.

I believe a post of mine in this thread; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/65821-pentax-31...fective-2.html constitutes one of those occasions.

I'm mentioning it here because sometimes it's good to have an example of what's being talked about to aid the discussion.

I chose my comment because it would be unfair to link to someone else's. I'm happy to take the flak if people think I was out of line. I don't think I was but I do think the response to my comment was out of line and displays the immaturity I mentioned earlier.

[SteveM]

Forum etiquette aside, there is a question of maturity here. We're all grownups on this forum and it works both ways. Sometimes those subtle insults become insults only because the person the comment is aimed at chooses to have the immaturity to take it as an insult.

I agree.....email....internet forums....it is very easy to take a comment the wrong way as there isn't the tone or body language to go along with it.

With that said.....if someone new asks a question ...and they are told through a subtle insult that it was a stupid thing to ask (as what appears will happen in previous comments) we might as well tell them to f - off....

They won't be back ....and we'll be doing as much damage as RiceHigh.

[J.Scott]

Nothing ticks me off more than someone that likes to boost their sense of self by putting someone else down.

I agree with this sentiment, Peter. I've seen this mentality in action many times and have come to the conclusion that those that engage in these sorts of antics are usually very intelligent in regards to the subject matter but horribly insecure. Unless you have the mind-bending powers of The Amazing Kreskin you are not going to change them. Shrug your shoulders, shake your head, take a deep breath and move on; they don't deserve your attention. Unless, of course, they are your own kids and you can admonish them with little fear of impunity. It's our job!

[lithos]

A smart man doesn't know all the answers, but does know where to find them. A professor told me that years ago. I live by it.

And what if asking someone is how that answer's found? Very academic answer, though...

There are lots of reasons why a 'newbie' may not know or have access to the 'basics' of photography, and so ask questions that make others roll their eyes in disdain.

It's easy to pass judgement, but that says more about the responder than it does about the newbie.
There really is no point in humiliating the person asking a 'dumb' question - that would hardly teach him/her to fish...

I'll echo Peter's original point:
A simple question asked (not just by newbies), whether or not it takes one or a hundred minutes to find the answer on the net, can be answered kindly in a few words, harshly in a few more words, or not at all; preferably by the first or last methods...

See, I swear people, I'd have written something as eloquent as that, if I'd had coffee when I posted...

[krypticide]

I don't think there's a solution. We have, for the most part, turned into a "results now" society. The internet has made this much worse. Gone are the days of going to a library (I'm just as guilty as everyone else), asking a librarian, and being pointed to the right direction but without a specific answer.

I've only been shooting for less than two years, but I feel like I have a handle on (technical, maybe not creative) things much more than the average photographer who's been at it for many years. The knowledge is out there, but without learning for yourself you won't really grow the roots of the trees; you simply graft on leaves here and there.

[hagar1969]

In defence of some of those poor newbies.. Have you noticed that some of them barely know how to type? I sincerely doubt that they would have the faintest inkling of how to conduct a search.. They were probably congratulating themselves on finding a forum, and actually figuring out how to post a question.. after going through the trauma of signing up..
I do a lot of teaching in real life.. and what we take for granted, is frequently if not always, totally overwhelming for a newbie..

[monochrome]

Welcome to planet earth it's full of insecure and arrogant individuals.
One thing that 'grinds my gears' is people not reading the frickn manual.

Where did you meet my wife? :ugh:

Some people are just curious, or self-starters. They tend to ask narrowly defined, technical (good, in the context of this thread) questions because they have found the easy answers for themselves. They're called introverts - they process information internally; most of thier questions are asked and answered in their own, internal dialogs.

We should help them.

Other people constantly ask questions and expect answers - it is part of their personality and they are neither lazy nor beneath our contempt. They tend to ask general questions, and follow the answer with another, narrower question (ad infinitum) until they understand the topic. They are called extroverts - they process information externally; most of their questions are asked and answered conversationally, in an external dialog.

We should help them, too.

A few people are just self-centered jerks. They will whine and complain (you know - the OP's Post #2 (after an hour) to the unanswered OP Post #1, "Hello? Antbody? Nobody here knows what aperture the 'A' stands for?") but eventually they will go away.

We should just ignore them.

And never feed the trolls.

[stevebrot]

Where di you meet my wife? :ugh:

I thought that not reading manuals was a guy thing. We ignore maps don't we?



Steve

[mickeyobe]

I have been a maintainer on a camera site for a specific camera for years.
It is the first site I visit every day although it is now virtually moribund as the camera has been out of production for almost 30 years.

Whenever a question was put forth members were falling over themselves to provide answers.
Even now when a problem is presented we always try to help.

However - now when the same question pops up over and over again and it is obvious the questioner has not bothered to peruse the site and help his/her self it almost always is ignored.

The lack of a simple thank you can also be aggravating.

Mickey

Since Peter is in a ranting mood, I'll follw suit. What ticks me off with some newcomers is when they ask a question, without giving enough info, then people try to answer, and we don't "hear" anything from said newcomers wether we are helping or not. They just post a question, then vanish.

Here's a typical example Yves - https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/66080-bizarre-n...k7-images.html

[Wheatfield]

Here's a typical example Yves - https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/66080-bizarre-n...k7-images.html

I still haven't recieved a warning from the mods on that one....

I still haven't recieved a warning from the mods on that one....

Do you want one?

[Wheatfield]

Do you want one?

I always enjoy getting PMs from you.

[pacerr]

Courtesy and patience on the forums are always appropriate (loveable curmudgeons notwithstanding) but efficiency does have its own rewards. I suspect the frustrations and inefficiency in answering repetitive noobie-questions is the real issue here.

Being too inexperienced to know how to phrase the research question may be a valid handicap; but using a slow dial-up connection is too often an excuse, not a reason, for not checking FAQs and indexes 'cause an adequate answer will inevitably take the same amount of on-line time - it's just a matter of who's feeding the monkey.

Reminds me of the old joke about old Canadian jokes: after a looong winter listening to each other's repetitive jokes, stories and lies it became more efficient to assign a numerical code to each item of conversation. After a while all you'd have to say is "Number 123" and everyone would laugh or groan as appropriate.

"Will M42 lenses work on my..." could become #1 on the list triggered by "This may be a stupid question, but...".

For the true curmudgeons, I'd refer you to the aviation "Falcon Codes" of the Viet Nam era.

[ Falcon #103 or perhaps #269 may suffice for those too lazy to do their own research on Google - Caution: not for the faint of heart. Note: Like lens versions, variations of the list exist.]

H2