[oatman911]

Hey all,

I'm in Israel with the family and having an incredible trip. We are renting an apartment just up the street from the beach and its beautiful. Last night, my brother, myself, and our girlfriends walked down to the beach for sunset over the Mediterranean Sea. It was my girlfriends last night here so we wanted to take some great couple pictures of us with the sunset in the background.

Problem!--In each picture, one of two things would happen, either we would be very clear and the sunset would be washed out from over exposure or we would be too dark and the sunset would be perfect. I've already lost my chance to retake that picture again for myself, but I can still take some good ones of my brother and his lady.

How do I take this picture properly???
--what ISO setting??
--how do I get both to come into the picture correctly?

Thanks guys, your advice has always been invaluable,

Oren

[TomE]

Take three images, one under, one right on and one over, then blend them together in a HDR program or Photoshop and you will have the best of both worlds in one photo.

The K10D and K20D have that feature built into the camera if you are using one of those.

Tom

[pbo]

Another way of doing it, is to shoot exposed for sun/sky (if bright) with a bit of dialed positive exposure compensation. Use the lowest ISO, and then try to bring up details in Photoshop - using Shadow/Highlights tool. I think it's less complicated than HDR, an issue though might be a bit of added noise.

Bo.

[imtheguy]

You can skip all the PP and just do it with one shot using the slow-sync flash mode in the camera. If you are not familiar with that flash mode, it uses the flash to capture the foreground (people) and a continued open shutter w/o flash to capture the background (sunset or city lights). I have taken a number of successful sunset shots of myself and wife by setting the camera in that mode and just handing it to a passerby. Make sure there is enough distance from the shooter to you so it works more as fill flash than really lighting things up. Five meters maybe? Works for me, no PP needed.

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Last edited by imtheguy; 07-19-2009 at 07:11 AM.

[flyer]

The easy way out. If you have a P-TTL flash with you, just put it on, and leave the camera on "P". The result should be acceptable.

[imtheguy]

The easy way out. If you have a P-TTL flash with you, just put it on, and leave the camera on "P". The result should be acceptable.

You had me doubting myself on this for a second because you look so scholarly and my pic is kinda goofy, but then I think the variable not discussed is just how far along is the sunset. The lighter it still is, the more likely your approach will come out fine. But like shooting a portrait with city lights in the background, I can't see anything but slow-sync getting a good capture once the sun is below the horizen.

This is from my experience since its the only way the camera can expose for what could be two vastly different lighting requirements.

[Marc Sabatella]

Good suggestions. But just to step back and be clear - what the OP is describing is a problem inherent in photography. The actual dynamic range of a real life scene like that far exceeds what any camera can normally record, or any monitor display, or any print show. Hence the various workarounds to artificially manipulate the scene into something that *can* be recorded/displayed/printed. Either by adding light to the darker partsof the scene while shooting (via fill flash), or by post processing to alter the relationship betwene light and dark in the photo after shooting (including the use of combined multiple exposures).

Personally, unless I have a strong reason to prefer a different approach, I'll generall shoot to overexpose the sky only slightly, leaving the subjects pretty dark, but then adjust the shadow levels in PP to try to achieve a believable yet effective balance.

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Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 07-20-2009 at 01:14 PM.

[Rondec]

I agree that rear curtain flash is the way to go. Without flash, your photo will be one of two things -- a silhouette shot, or a blown out sunset. As Marc said, that dynamic range of the camera cannot capture both accurately. I guess the other option would be to combine two photos with different exposures in photoshop.

[flyer]

You had me doubting myself on this for a second because you look so scholarly and my pic is kinda goofy, but then I think the variable not discussed is just how far along is the sunset. The lighter it still is, the more likely your approach will come out fine. But like shooting a portrait with city lights in the background, I can't see anything but slow-sync getting a good capture once the sun is below the horizen.

This is from my experience since its the only way the camera can expose for what could be two vastly different lighting requirements.

If you set your camera on "P", it will go to slow sync on it's own.

[flyer]

I agree that rear curtain flash is the way to go. Without flash, your photo will be one of two things -- a silhouette shot, or a blown out sunset. As Marc said, that dynamic range of the camera cannot capture both accurately. I guess the other option would be to combine two photos with different exposures in photoshop.

Slow sync or rear curtain won't make any difference on a static subject. It would make a difference if you were trying to record a moving subjects with lights, but when people are posing, the result is the same.

[imtheguy]

If you set your camera on "P", it will go to slow sync on it's own.

I stepped into the Twilight Zone. Please tell me that you are referring to a feature on the OP's camera since my K20D does not do that. At least not under any settings I could come up with just now during the sunset. I tried all 4 Program Modes with a DA 16-45mm lens and the built in flash right after the sun was down with a small tree for a foreground subject against the sunset. At no time could I get it to automagically slip into slow-sync. It also does not make any sense that the camera could know when I want slow-sync versus straight flash. One of us is on crack.

[HGMonaro]

hope you thru the camera back into the bag and enjoyed the moment with your girlfriend!

[oatman911]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I tried the slow-sync flash in Jaffa last night and it was perfect (not my shot, just the desired effect). I still need a bit more practice ironing out the settings, but short of that, it did exactly what I wanted it to do.

As to that night's sunset with the lady, it wasn't long before the camera was shelved on the old concrete barrier we were leaning on and the sunset was enjoyed for what it was, just a nice moment together.

Thanks again all, this site, the forum, and your advice make me glad I'm a Pentax guy,

Oren

[flyer]

I stepped into the Twilight Zone. Please tell me that you are referring to a feature on the OP's camera since my K20D does not do that. At least not under any settings I could come up with just now during the sunset. I tried all 4 Program Modes with a DA 16-45mm lens and the built in flash right after the sun was down with a small tree for a foreground subject against the sunset. At no time could I get it to automagically slip into slow-sync. It also does not make any sense that the camera could know when I want slow-sync versus straight flash. One of us is on crack.

When the light level is low, the shutter speed will go down on it's own to 1/80sec on the K20D (1/100sec on K-7) with pop-up flash on, and 1/80 sec qualifies as slow sync. If you use dedicated slow sync mode, you can even go slower, but for a sunset, you can usually manage with 1/80sec.

[imtheguy]

When the light level is low, the shutter speed will go down on it's own to 1/80sec on the K20D (1/100sec on K-7) with pop-up flash on, and 1/80 sec qualifies as slow sync. If you use dedicated slow sync mode, you can even go slower, but for a sunset, you can usually manage with 1/80sec.

Yes, thank you. That is what I saw, 1/80 sec for the Program Mode shot and 1/8 sec for the dedicated slow-sync shot in a sample shot last evening. I am with you now. I can chalk that up as something else I learned on the forum this week. Had never noticed the slower "P" mode flash. Thanks for weaning me off the crack. Not as expensive as LBA but more confusing.