[mtroute]

While I may not always agree with how gooshin answers/askes question, he has a point.

I am perfectly comfortable in "M"mode, (thanks to my old yashika) but I typically shoot in AV or TV depending on what I am going for. If I want to control blur, than it's TV all the way. If I want DOF control, than it's AV. On rare occasions I will move to SV but I don't find much need for that mode.

I really never find a need for "M" mode unless I use an my M lenses. I don't see any point in adding complexity and time to the process when in any given situation I only have to worry about one aspect of exposure at a time and then just control that and let the camera do the rest.

[Kornbread]

The best way to learn about exposure is to get a K1000

Nice.

[MJB DIGITAL]

When I got my first SLR, my dad said, "don't you use that darned autostuff! It kills the batteries!" (he was referring to the focus)

He also told me to start out in M. He explained that I wasnt going to be on assignment, that I wasnt getting anything important (but if I DID need to switch to something important, go ahead and use 'the autoexposure stuff') and that if I read the manual, and asked him a couple of questions, I would be just fine at manually operating my camera.
He taught me how to control DOF, and that's it. I shot and learned and read and experiemented and studied and...after time, I opened for business!!

Kornbread. Screw it! Throw it in M and go out shooting. Are you going out on assignment? Are you going to a client's wedding? Is it a breaking news story? Chances are-no.

Bring your photos home and look at them on the computer:
When do you have motion blur?
Why are some underexposed?
Why are some overexposed?
Why are some blue?
Why are some amber?
Why do I have some that are exposing for the sky, and the ground is black?
Why are some pictures out of focus?

Just go shoot, man!! 8) Don't forget to have fun.

To me, shooting in M is kinda like driving a stick. The light is the road. Turn on the machine and feel the road. Steer the thing and switch gears. Then stop for coffee. I hear there are some babes in coffee shops that love photographers!

Have fun buddy.

Mitch

[mtroute]

When I got my first SLR, my dad said, "don't you use that darned autostuff! It kills the batteries!" (he was referring to the focus)

He also told me to start out in M. He explained that I wasnt going to be on assignment, that I wasnt getting anything important (but if I DID need to switch to something important, go ahead and use 'the autoexposure stuff') and that if I read the manual, and asked him a couple of questions, I would be just fine at manually operating my camera.
He taught me how to control DOF, and that's it. I shot and learned and read and experiemented and studied and...after time, I opened for business!!

Kornbread. Screw it! Throw it in M and go out shooting. Are you going out on assignment? Are you going to a client's wedding? Is it a breaking news story? Chances are-no.

Bring your photos home and look at them on the computer:
When do you have motion blur?
Why are some underexposed?
Why are some overexposed?
Why are some blue?
Why are some amber?
Why do I have some that are exposing for the sky, and the ground is black?
Why are some pictures out of focus?

Just go shoot, man!! 8) Don't forget to have fun.

To me, shooting in M is kinda like driving a stick. The light is the road. Turn on the machine and feel the road. Steer the thing and switch gears. Then stop for coffee. I hear there are some babes in coffee shops that love photographers!

Have fun buddy.

Mitch

FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kornbread]

When I got my first SLR, my dad said, "don't you use that darned autostuff! It kills the batteries!" (he was referring to the focus)

He also told me to start out in M. He explained that I wasnt going to be on assignment, that I wasnt getting anything important (but if I DID need to switch to something important, go ahead and use 'the autoexposure stuff') and that if I read the manual, and asked him a couple of questions, I would be just fine at manually operating my camera.
He taught me how to control DOF, and that's it. I shot and learned and read and experiemented and studied and...after time, I opened for business!!

Kornbread. Screw it! Throw it in M and go out shooting. Are you going out on assignment? Are you going to a client's wedding? Is it a breaking news story? Chances are-no.

Bring your photos home and look at them on the computer:
When do you have motion blur?
Why are some underexposed?
Why are some overexposed?
Why are some blue?
Why are some amber?
Why do I have some that are exposing for the sky, and the ground is black?
Why are some pictures out of focus?

Just go shoot, man!! 8) Don't forget to have fun.

To me, shooting in M is kinda like driving a stick. The light is the road. Turn on the machine and feel the road. Steer the thing and switch gears. Then stop for coffee. I hear there are some babes in coffee shops that love photographers!

Have fun buddy.

Mitch

I'm not so sure my wife would like me stopping at coffee shops to pick up on babes.

Great advice!

[Gooshin]

Bring your photos home and look at them on the computer:

When do you have motion blur?
- because your shutter is too low (really, do you need to shoot M mode to figure this out?)

Why are some underexposed?
- because you underexposed it

Why are some overexposed?
- because you over exposed it

Why are some blue?
- nothing to do with M mode

Why are some amber?
- nothing to do with M mode

Why do I have some that are exposing for the sky, and the ground is black?
- nothing to do with M mode

Why are some pictures out of focus?
- most definetly nothing to do with M mode

Just go shoot, man!! 8) Don't forget to have fun.
probably the only real piece of advice, but again, nothing to do with M mode

To me, shooting in M is kinda like driving a stick. The light is the road. Turn on the machine and feel the road. Steer the thing and switch gears. Then stop for coffee. I hear there are some babes in coffee shops that love photographers!

ask any real racer if they want stick, or a 7 speed DSG box, they'll opt for the box. Because the performance is undeniable, and everyone else is a nostalgic dreamer.

as for the coffee shop babes, you dont need a camera to pick them up.

............................

[MJB DIGITAL]

Um...Thanks?

[MJB DIGITAL]

One other thing for practice in operating all of the controls on your camera without the camera doing it for you:

I would go for a walk, and have the playback screen turned off. I would make sure to read the light meter in the camera and try to get my exposures right without being able to 'chimp' each exposure.
Then later I would look at the photos on the computer and ask myself questions kind of like those I posted earlier, and take note to remember that stuff.

The most common problem I had was that I never remembered to set the whitebalance...

Again, have fun.

Mitch

[MJB DIGITAL]

p.s. I'm not a racer. I'm an everyday driver who enjoy's manually operating my transmission according to the road and the traffic. This gives me a very similar feeling to the one that I experience when I manually expose my frames according to the lighting and compositional situations.

[raymeedc]

I want to get better at shooting in full manual mode
Are there some 'drills' or that I can run to help me get faster at properly adjusting my settings?

Best way to learn to understand lighting adjustments..... get yourself a handheld meter & transfer the measured settings manually to your lens & camera.

[MJB DIGITAL]

I'm not so sure my wife would like me stopping at coffee shops to pick up on babes.

Great advice!

oops. so i dont always give the best advice. what i meant to say was

"Then stop for coffee. I hear those cafe's make some REALLY girly fufu coffee drinks. Get one for the wifey"

[jimH]

I use the Manual mode; with my Pentax SMC-M lenses on my K10. I think it's OK, but I also own a Pentax MX (Manual) which is a super little camera. But I also own a Pentax ME Super. (Automatic) which is a great little camera.

Between the two, I'd prefer the ME Super. Why? because I can concentrate on making an image, (which I bought a camera for).

Now I use a K10, where do I set the Mode? Hyper Program. I can change either the shutter speed or the f stop. I've almost always used the light meter. Why should I guess, when I've got a measuring tool. If after one shot and I don't like the exposure, I use the exposure compensation to correct it.

I find the Manual mode rather slow, but with more use, I'm getting faster. But to give you an idea which way I want to go, to enjoy photography, I've got a super good Pentax M f1.4 50 mm lens that works great, but I just ordered a new FA f1.4 50mm so I can use the automatic features of my K10.

I think learning to use the Manual mode is great, but for convenience, I'd prefer to use the automatic exposure features on my camera, so I can enjoy image making.

I know how to use the manual mode, but I prefer the convenience of the automatic features so that I can concentrate on the image. That's why I'm working with photography.

As a side note: I don't like confrontational or snide responses to questions on this forum, since this is a learning forum rather than an ego boosting forum.

[mischivo]

If you want to shoot manually, get a light meter and avoid the camera's metering modes like the plague (unless you use its spot meter and understand zoning).

Everyone who tells you to use manual by adjusting either shutter and aperture until the camera tells you that exposure is "correct" is simply WRONG. Why do I make such a bold statement? First, because it is true. Second, because doing this procedure will give you results no better than having the camera meter for you. I'm assuming you are interested in learning to meter manually not for the pointless purpose of playing with wheels and knobs, but to understand exposure, and to have some control of it. Allowing the camera to meter the scene does not do this (again, unless you're using the spot meter and zoning it) because it determines exposure based on its own programmed parameters. By manually twisting and turning the wheels and knobs and praying you hit the setting the camera thinks is right, you're only exercising your fingers and wasting your time, as you won't learn a thing.

If you seriously wish to learn the intricacies of exposure and how it's affected by shutter, aperture, and film speed, you need to purchase a good old book about photography (The Negative, by Ansel Adams), and a good light meter (all come with incident meters, some come with spot meters as well; I recommend getting one with both; purchase used, as spot meters are pricey).

[MSM]

Kornbread: I think this is a good topic. Despite the back and forth in this thread, I have to agree with Gooshin. His remarks are spot on. Reread #25 and #29. I was going to post something very similar. Which mode one chooses is really to one's personal liking and in no way makes you professional or at any other level. I used to share this belief. Then I realized that the 3 variables to a specific exposure (correct or otherwise) can be obtained in all the modes except green mode. JimH (#42) also makes some valid points. I now use the automatic metering modes and have learned to use the histograms to evaluate exposure. I can simply reshoot if I am off. I agree, using manual mode will not improve exposure if you simply use the green button as you are still relying on the cameras estimation of exposure dependent on matrix or centered or spot.

I use a K10D. I have used manual but also find that it is too time consuming. Also having used Av mode so much, I forget to press the green button or adjust my dials to get the exposure I intended as the light changes.
Now, I have started using Sv mode. Honestly, I thought there was no real use for this mode at first. I actually have loved using it. Along with Tav, Sv mode is the only other mode that I can get the ISO, shutter and aperture all in the viewfinder. Keeping my eye in the viewfinder helps be efficient. I can make all my exposure decisions while working on composition. Now that is the kind of thing that will as you say 'take you to another level.' I use the back dial like in program mode. I adjust the aperture to my liking and the meter is adjusting the shutter speed. I can adjust the front dial which is set to adjust the ISO. Oftentimes for me I have to make a decision at a given desired aperture, particularly in low light: a) accept more noise at a higher ISO while affording a faster shutter speed or b)keep ISO lower while accepting a slower shutter speed and risk blur. Can this be done in other modes? Yes, of course. Are any really 'better?' Not really. It is just that this clicks for me. OTOH, Tav mode just confuses me in the viewfinder. I can sort it out but it takes time and I miss shots.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

[hanamai]

Wow. There are certainly a lot of opinions on how to go about this.

In my humble opinion, there is no need to go out and get additional equipment, such as a light meter. I am assuming, if you take pictures, you can see- your eyes should be sufficient.

I use Manual, because I like it. It's the only mode I've used, except for when handing the camera to someone else- I like the ability to totally control what I am doing. (Which is why I also prefer to drive manual transmission.)

The way I taught myself (actually on a digital Point and Shoot, prior to going DSLR), was by setting a stationary object in front of me (I used a bottle on a table), and shooting it with different apertures to see the effect.

Large aperture (low F/number) = shallow depth of field (bottle in focus/background blurry) and more light

Small aperture (high F/number) = more of the subject/background in focus and less light

I then did the same with the shutter speed, I adjusted it up and down and saw how it reflected the amount of light that entered through my lens. The longer the shutter was open, the more light was recorded and obviously, the faster shutter speeds allowed less.

As for the ISO, I adjust that to what my surroundings call for. If I want to keep a photo from getting blurry, I turn it up to compensate for the Aperture and Shutter Speeds.

So to me, the best way to learn is to play around and take lots of pictures! It's digital, what can it hurt- aside from your hard drive!?

Simple choices like leaving the shutter open for a few seconds can lead to lovely "artistic" blurry photos, where people's movements look ghost-like with the setting still in focus. Or freezing water from a hose with a fast shutter speed can be just as interesting... The option for shooting Manual is great for me, it's just a matter of preference, though. Try it out for awhile and you may never go back to relying on the camera to compensate! Or not. But the option is nice.