[lesmore49]

Build quality on the Nikon D80/D90 haven't impressed me. Once you get to the Nikon D200/D300 I'm impressed.
Before I bought my K10D in 2007 I checked out the D200 (D300 not out) and the D80. The D80 seemed plasticky...the D200, now there's a camera.

But the K10D blew both of them away with the internal shake reduction, the weather resistance, the dust removal system...and....and...I could continue to use some of my top quality Pentax lens..such as the legendary A 35-105.

I wasn't sure what you were talking about regarding the screen. I'm thinking you mean the brightness of the LCD screen and if I'm right I think you'll notice a big difference in brightness between the K100D and the new Pentaxes.

I have a K10D, like it a lot, great camera, as Pop Photo says built like a tank. But the LCD screen (one at the back of the camera, not sure it's called an LCD) is not bright in the outdoors under a bright light. I'm always looking for shade to check out the pix.

But my new Pentax KM that I bought in April/09 is much brighter, IMO. I press the button, don't look for shade, it's bright to see outdoors.

I dunno, there both good camera lines, but I do like the feel of the Pentax DSLR in my big mitts, the astounding accuracy and clarity of the pictures and the colour rendition...wow.

I've got buddies withCanon and Nikon...great camera systems, but I think overall Pentax has them beat for the needs of this advanced amateur.

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Last edited by lesmore49; 08-02-2009 at 01:19 PM.

[Ash]

I think what's needed is to put what the reviews say about the D90 and K20D aside and just go to the camera store to have a looong feel and test drive of both systems to know which one's right for you, Brian.

There really is no point in anyone talking you into or out of buying any camera as it really is more of a personal choice than one based on camera performance (particularly between these two). So do take the time and go through the functions, the AF, the shutter actions and the build quality to make up your own decision.

You've never tried the K20D, but I can certainly say it is a league above the K100D in just about everything. I personally chose the K20D over the D90 not only for the reasons you mentioned, but also for build quality, a more reasonable cost, and image quality that just is hard to beat (and to me that is by far the most important issue).

All the best in your decision.

[séamuis]

your considering switching to a d90 because you f'ed up your K100D, how? putting in 3rd party focusing screen? im a bit confused. and why exactly are we supposed to talk you out of anything? its your decision. we cant really tell you anything you don't likely already know.

[Pentaxor]

That's interesting, what brought you over from Nikon? The reasons you changed, and the reasons you like Pentax, could be very helpful if you'd share them,
Brian

I'd be happy to share my story from the dark side. the reason that brought me here was the K20D. sorry, but I never heard of the K10D not before knowing the K20D. reasons that I changed is primarily because I wanted a weather-sealed body. D3 was way over my budget. the D300 is lightly weather resistant but costs at around 3,000. I prefer shooting handheld and hate to bring a tripod everytime. I hate those moments where you have to shoot something real fast but you are required to shoot under 1/15 sec and lower. there wasn't any VR lenses available yet during those times and when they did, well guess how much they cost. just imagine what a Nikon premium lens with VR system costs compared to an LTD glass? they cost double (triple before Pentax went cuckoo). I also got fed-up of bringing a large and heavy body and lenses.

the reason why I'm loving Pentax is because is up to the task and met all the needs that I mentioned and most of my needs in general. I'm able to produce results far better than what I'm hoping for.
it's quite a different system compared to the Nikon but it's definitely making a statement that a Nikon shooter can't deny, unless you are a solid fanboy.
my colleagues are still associated with the Darth Sith. well, old habits die hard I guess. but anyway, I'm very much happy with the lenses that Pentax provide. I would just think that Nikon has their equivalent of LTDs.

To me the weather sealing song is to pentax what the label pro to Canon... a piece of... Marketing. Basically, all the cameras I have ever used ressist some mild rain. When the rain get serious most of the people dont shoot unless they have lens wiper blades so that let you on the premise that you can basically use every camera under the rain.

Now sea spray is whole different world and I dont know how many tests have been made with any camera on these conditions.

To the OP, do whatever you want to do, I dont see the point of asking to a stranger to talk you out of anything but a murder.

[PolishMike]

I had a similar dilemma. I tried the D90 and within a couple of shots *really* missed the lack of in-body SR. I can often get sharp shots down to 1/4s at 50mm with Pentax SR whereas without it 1/20s was a bit of a lottery. That for me is a big deal.

Would be a touch choice between the K20D and D90. Luckily, I could (just) afford a K-7, which fixes most the disadvantages the K20 had (small and slow to clear buffer, poorer screen, worse ergonomics for my taste) and adds a lot of nice stuff.

There are two real advantages of Nikon to my mind - a wider lens selection, bigger used lens market and a much better wireless flash system. The flash system is a shame, as I'm just getting into off-camera flash work, but I could not afford the high-end Nikon glass so that's no loss (whereas a Pentax DA* or Limited is *just* within the outer reaches of my budget). The lack of an upgrade path to full frame and the future of Pentax as a brand are both things that concern me - I really hope my Pentax glass will still be usable in 10 years time.

Any current camera you pick is going to do the job for you, nit picking over certain electronic functions can drive you round the bend. What one camera has the other doesn't but is does have something the other doesn't and so on and so forth. Reviews should not be trusted because the reviews aren't based on the real world, they are just there to put you in the parking lot, it's up to you to pick a space.



Living in Arizona, I'd want the weather sealing.
Add that to in body SR, price point, lenses and build in no particular order, it would be a no brainer for me if I was in your position.

[Rondec]

If it was me, I would see this as a sign that I should move up to the K20 (unless for some reason you really want video). It is a night and day difference between the K100 and th K20. not to dissrespect the K100 (it was my first dSLR), but focus is faster with the K20, the SR works better, and image quality is definitely a step up.

Weather sealing is the real deal. I have shot in rain at Disney with the DA 50-135 and not had any issues with the camera. Gruoso, that is where having a lens hood comes in handy.

At the same time, the D90 will take great photos. If it seems to fit what you want in a camera, then go for it. It really isn't the end of the world and if it doesn't work out, you can always come back to Pentax.

[snogglethorpe]

your considering switching to a d90 because you f'ed up your K100D, how? putting in 3rd party focusing screen? im a bit confused. and why exactly are we supposed to talk you out of anything? its your decision. we cant really tell you anything you don't likely already know.

Exactly.

What a weird thread...

[The D90 is a nice camera, and I like it's form-factor better than the K20... maybe if you don't care about lens compatibility, it would make a good "middle step" between the K100 and the K-7 keeping a more svelte feel than e.g. the K20 would.]

[FHPhotographer]

Exactly.

What a weird thread...

Don't know that the thread is weird, but some of the responses seem a bit odd. I've been away from the forum for a bit and now I have to wonder if some folks have suddenly lost their senses of humor. We're talking about photography not brain surgery; the "talk me out of it" was tongue-in-cheek, not a plea for help or an attack on the body Pentax. As my dear departed door-to-door salesman daddy once told me, nobody gets sold anything, and nobody buys anything they don't want to buy. I wanted some conversation, not argumentation. Lighten up, this is only three-chord rock n roll,
Brian

[jsherman999]

but I'm thinking of switching from Pentax to the D90 with the 18-105 VR kit lens.

And why, you might ask? Well, I broke the cardinal rule of the ignorant and clumsy by messing around inside the box and somehow managed to scratch the K100 focusing screen and bend the hell out of the screen frame and shim. Yeah, they can be fixed but I'm taking it as a sign from the photo gods to move on.

I'd really like to stay with Pentax for the build quality, the lenses, the built-in IS, and just the feel of the cameras. I'm using the Tamron 28-75 now and it's damn near the perfect zoom lens for what/how I shoot now, but someday I plan to add primes and nothing out there matches the Pentax lineup for quality plus IS.

That being said, however, the D90 has the active D-lighting that is very good for high contrast outdoor work, a longer range zoom, and a brilliant 3" high res screen, plus it's fast and top notch IR. Perhaps the K-7 is equal/superior, but it just costs too much right now; it would mean sticking with the Tamron zoom for the long run. And from what I read here and there it's having the usual sorting out problems of a new model.

Perhaps the K20 as the middle road plus maybe the 35 macro for about the same money? It is a quandry, a nice one to be in but frustrating, so any input would be much appreciated. Thanks,
Brian

.

As a D90 (and K20D) owner, I'll give you a few quick cons...

IMO, Active D-Lighting on the D90 is kinda... terrible. Contrast goes away, everything just looks washed out. In some cases, it can sort of save an image, but shooting in raw and doing some PP will give you better results. Don't buy a D90 just for Active D-Lighting.

The 18-105 VR kit lens: VR is nice, and the lens is fairly sharp, but it doesn't match the Tamron 28-75, or Pentax 16-45 f/4 for that matter.

D90 in Matrix Metering is a Jeckyl/Hyde deal - wonderful exposure one shot, the next, blown highlights - Nikon chose to preserve shadow detail at the expense of highlights, it seems, but it just doesn't seem consistent. A weak point of the D80 and D90.

No SR in-body - you'll really notice it in low-light, slow SS shots at first - but then you'll get used to it.

No AF adjust (like the K20D has) - not a big deal if you're used to the K100D, but for K20D users like me, it's a bad deal. Any little FF/BF problem is insurmountable on the D90.

Pros:

Faster AF. Sigma HSM with AF-S on the D90 is blazing-fast, even though AF-C mode isn't much better than the K20D. Normal screwdrive lenses are faster also.

Better high-ISO performance. I shoot ISO 1250 without any reservations whatsoever, and ISO 2000 all the time. On the K20D, a lot of detail is preserved at these ISOs, and the noise doesn't look too bad... but the D90's NR is just near-perfect. I almost never do an NR in PP with the D90, and I shoot jpeg almost always.

Lenses. Nikon has some interesting options:

35 1.8G ($199 new, and very sharp wide-open.)
50 1.8D ($109 new, about as good as the FA 50 1.7)
85 1.8D ($400 new, pretty good)
105 f/2 DC, 135 f/2 DC, 200 f/2 VR - (incredible glass, but $$$$$)
180 f/2.8 AF ($350-650 used, stellar.)
300 f/4 AF (non AF-S) ($400 - $700 used, superb)

Then there are the 'pro' zooms, but I don't think they're quite worth it ($1700 for the 70-200 2.8 VR, $2400 for the brand new one, $1800 for 24-70 2,.8 VR, etc...)

Personally I feel that there's a lot of hype attached to the Nikon pro zooms.

Nothing like the limited primes, and also nothing like the DA 50-135 except the Sigma 50-150 2.8 - but that's not as good in close-focus.

Anyway, D90 is great, some Nikon lenses are great and good bargains, but the grass isn't completely green.

[snogglethorpe]

but the D90's NR is just near-perfect. I almost never do an NR in PP with the D90, and I shoot jpeg almost always.

Yeah, despite all the arguments for the "Pentax philosophy", it seems kind of silly that Pentax don't at least provide optional stronger NR in the camera, and let the user choose the ISO at which it starts to kick in (for extra points, they could even let the user choose the NR level for every ISO setting individually!).

They've already gone to great lengths to allow a lot of in-camera processing, so why not more NR options?

They could certainly make the defaults the same as they are now, and even make it very clear in the manual the tradeoffs involved in setting NR higher, but given the amount of belly-aching you see about noise compared to canikon...

[LeDave]

Save up more and get the K-7 instead! Wait until you actually touch and feel and play with the K-7 before making your decision! I thought the K-7 wasn't all that much from reading about it and seeing all these posts and thought the K20D was no different. I saw it in person and touched it at the K-7 Road Tour and it completely changed the way I saw that monster, the K-7 is a MONSTER!

[Adam]

Very true, but too many are like this exchange about a quick comparison that I thought to be informative but apparently didn't suit the fanboys out there too well @ Nikon D90 vs Pentax K7...

Jared W Lynem: Review = epic fail.
Hester Mandolins: You know your complete bias for the D90 shows in this review. To be a good reviewer and a reviewer that others trust when reading their review, you have to put your personal biases aside and keep an open mind.
sinnerman: This isn’t a review, it’s a dismal attempt at detailing specifications of the Pentax K-7 with a heavy bias towards the Nikon D90. It’s a higher class camera than the D90, no doubt about it.

And that's why I keep coming back to this forum for the kind of informed and interesting input that might help me, and others, when looking at this issue,
Brian

That's perhaps one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen. He doesn't even mention or test image quality, which is obviously the most important aspect of any camera.

Brian, I would go for the K20 if I were you. It's a wonderful camera, and with the release of the K-7, you'll probably be able to get it used at a great price. Definitely two steps up from the K100, too!

Also, if you ask me, SR in body > SR in lens, because it allows for a much greater freedom in choosing lenses!

[FHPhotographer]

Thanks one and all for the input... and I've decided to go with the K20. The price is too good, the features too many and the folks on the forum too much fun to make the switch,
Brian