Wedding... Help!

rwheeler · 08-23-2009, 05:50 PM

rwheeler · 08-23-2009, 05:51 PM

alohadave · 08-23-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by rwheeler

Here are some of the first attempts. I just had a friend come up with me to where the wedding is going to be held so I could try everything out. The results were pretty hit and miss, it seemed like when I had the flash pointed straight at the subject her face would look really blown out and the background would be dark. For these ones that turned out ok I had the flash pointed up higher with the little white card on the flash pulled up and the camera set to P. If the flash is pointed straight at the subject what are the ways that I can avoid them looking like casper? Also thank you all so much for the feedback so far! it's been great!

If you haven't already, read Strobist. Read through Lighting 101 and 102.

It's focused for off camera flash, but most of the stuff there works exactly the same for on-camera flash. You won't be proficient, but there are plenty of lessons to get you going.

innershell · 08-23-2009, 06:10 PM

You might want to pick up a diffuser or fabricate one out of translucent white plastic.

palmor · 08-23-2009, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by rwheeler

Here are some of the first attempts. I just had a friend come up with me to where the wedding is going to be held so I could try everything out. The results were pretty hit and miss, it seemed like when I had the flash pointed straight at the subject her face would look really blown out and the background would be dark. For these ones that turned out ok I had the flash pointed up higher with the little white card on the flash pulled up and the camera set to P. If the flash is pointed straight at the subject what are the ways that I can avoid them looking like casper? Also thank you all so much for the feedback so far! it's been great!

Like someone else mentioned pick up a diffuser for the flash. I picked up an Omni Bounce for my 2 flashes and they worked great for the outdoor wedding shots I took. It really didn't take any extra to learn, just angle the flash between 60 and 75 degrees and fire away.. nice soft light.

John

bethtphotos · 08-23-2009, 07:37 PM

I've been shooting weddings for two years now & I want to tell you this is the most comprehensive & best quick guide I've seen.

cwood · 08-24-2009, 07:37 PM

I think a lot of people mis-understand the purpose of a diffuser. Here is how Sto-fen wants you to think about it.
STO-FEN Information (How It Works!)

If you don't have anything to bounce off of (i.e at an outdoor wedding) then the "diffuser" is just sending the light out into the atmosphere. Any light that hits your subject is originating from the same size light source. If you think the lighting is improved when you put on a diffuser outdoors you should just dial your flash down because that is all that is happening - less light is hitting your subject. That way your batteries will last longer too.

It appears your subject was in the shade for most of these shots so you have to ask yourself "why am I using a flash". I wasn't there so I can't comment on exactly what you should have been doing but "flash photography" is used for a number of reasons (i.e. soften shadows, light subjects when available light is too low, add "light separation" between subject and background). It looks to me like most of these photos would have been perfectly exposed without a flash so the question you need to ask yourself is "what am I trying to accomplish by adding flash". You can't correct your images or technique until you have answered that question.

cwood · 08-24-2009, 07:48 PM

Out of curiosity I downloaded one of your images to check it out - I hope you don't mind. I will delete this right away if you want me to.

A big challenge you faced in this shoot was your fair skinned freckled friend. Flash lighting is very cold and your friend has very white skin. When I checked your exposure it looked to be under exposed by 1/3 stop. I added +1/3 EV and added minor contrast and then a slight warming filter to get this. I don't think "blown out" is quite what you thought it was... you just had an extremely challenging subject to shoot. I just love her freckles though

And you took some great photos of her!!

WMBP · 08-24-2009, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by kunik

If you don't have anything to bounce off of (i.e at an outdoor wedding) then the "diffuser" is just sending the light out into the atmosphere. Any light that hits your subject is originating from the same size light source. If you think the lighting is improved when you put on a diffuser outdoors you should just dial your flash down because that is all that is happening - less light is hitting your subject. That way your batteries will last longer too.

Kunik is right about the theory behind the Sto-Fen Omnibounce. Outdoors, an Omni-Bounce won't do much (although I don't think it does nothing). I'm not sure why I mentioned the Omni-Bounce in the first place; I think I forgot that the reception is outdoors, too.

The entire purpose of my original post was to try to my recommendations simple. If shooting outdoors, using the 540 FGZ straight forward, P-TTL, no diffuser or modifier, is probably the safest bet - the approach least prone to complete failure. Shooting parties outdoors at night with a single, camera-mounted flash is just plain difficult any way you look at it.

Will

MJB DIGITAL · 08-25-2009, 01:21 PM

Maybe bouncing just came natural to me. To me it's just like a bankshot.....but easier because you dont have any hoops to sink a ball into; just a subject to spread light all over.

graphicgr8s · 08-25-2009, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

Kunik is right about the theory behind the Sto-Fen Omnibounce. Outdoors, an Omni-Bounce won't do much (although I don't think it does nothing). I'm not sure why I mentioned the Omni-Bounce in the first place; I think I forgot that the reception is outdoors, too.

The entire purpose of my original post was to try to my recommendations simple. If shooting outdoors, using the 540 FGZ straight forward, P-TTL, no diffuser or modifier, is probably the safest bet - the approach least prone to complete failure. Shooting parties outdoors at night with a single, camera-mounted flash is just plain difficult any way you look at it.

Will

You always have "something" to bounce off of.
Using a lightsphere will help even outside. Angling the flash upwards and just bouncing it off your hand will tame it a touch so it's not so harsh. An offwhite card stuck on flash and angled will soften it. Shooting into a collapsible reflector will take harshness out. Straight on is usually not the most desirable or flattering technique.

Adam_T4 · 08-27-2009, 07:25 AM

Wow - really interesting and useful information here. I really want that 50-135 lens in my kit someday. Just my two cents advice is don't forget a few black and white shots.

innershell · 08-27-2009, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Adam_T4

Just my two cents advice is don't forget a few black and white shots.

That's what high ISO photos are for. Chroma noise = grain

MJB DIGITAL · 08-28-2009, 08:53 AM

Tomorrow's the big day!

re: innershell
yeah definitely but i would aim on the low end of the iso scale just to be safe on the wedding day. if a couple of times during the day you want to bust out some grain for black and white....hell yes. but please dont forget to bring it back down.....

innershell · 08-28-2009, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL

Tomorrow's the big day!

re: innershell
yeah definitely but i would aim on the low end of the iso scale just to be safe on the wedding day. if a couple of times during the day you want to bust out some grain for black and white....hell yes. but please dont forget to bring it back down.....

100% agreed. I would aim for ISO400 for 99.9999% of the shots. No reason why it can't be done with any hotshoe flash.

High ISO shots would be out of a necessity and uncompromisable constraints beyond your ability to control.

08-27-2009, 07:25 AM	#57
Adam_T4 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NYC Photos: Gallery Posts: 51	Great thread Wow - really interesting and useful information here. I really want that 50-135 lens in my kit someday. Just my two cents advice is don't forget a few black and white shots. Attached Images

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
People K7 does a Wedding	Falcons	Post Your Photos!	10	03-27-2010 04:30 AM
Before The Wedding	IowaBoy	Monthly Photo Contests	0	11-13-2009 10:45 AM
Wedding!!	MJB DIGITAL	Photographic Industry and Professionals	22	08-09-2009 09:03 PM
A few from a wedding	Taff	Post Your Photos!	18	12-08-2008 06:02 AM
My first wedding!!!	dudlew	Post Your Photos!	11	12-20-2007 06:41 AM

08-23-2009, 05:50 PM	#46
rwheeler Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 36 Original Poster

08-23-2009, 05:51 PM	#47
rwheeler Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 36 Original Poster

08-23-2009, 05:55 PM	#48
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by rwheeler Here are some of the first attempts. I just had a friend come up with me to where the wedding is going to be held so I could try everything out. The results were pretty hit and miss, it seemed like when I had the flash pointed straight at the subject her face would look really blown out and the background would be dark. For these ones that turned out ok I had the flash pointed up higher with the little white card on the flash pulled up and the camera set to P. If the flash is pointed straight at the subject what are the ways that I can avoid them looking like casper? Also thank you all so much for the feedback so far! it's been great! If you haven't already, read Strobist. Read through Lighting 101 and 102. It's focused for off camera flash, but most of the stuff there works exactly the same for on-camera flash. You won't be proficient, but there are plenty of lessons to get you going.

08-23-2009, 06:10 PM	#49
innershell Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 408	You might want to pick up a diffuser or fabricate one out of translucent white plastic.

08-23-2009, 07:12 PM	#50
palmor Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 798	Originally posted by rwheeler Here are some of the first attempts. I just had a friend come up with me to where the wedding is going to be held so I could try everything out. The results were pretty hit and miss, it seemed like when I had the flash pointed straight at the subject her face would look really blown out and the background would be dark. For these ones that turned out ok I had the flash pointed up higher with the little white card on the flash pulled up and the camera set to P. If the flash is pointed straight at the subject what are the ways that I can avoid them looking like casper? Also thank you all so much for the feedback so far! it's been great! Like someone else mentioned pick up a diffuser for the flash. I picked up an Omni Bounce for my 2 flashes and they worked great for the outdoor wedding shots I took. It really didn't take any extra to learn, just angle the flash between 60 and 75 degrees and fire away.. nice soft light. John

08-23-2009, 07:37 PM	#51
bethtphotos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NH Photos: Gallery Posts: 34	I've been shooting weddings for two years now & I want to tell you this is the most comprehensive & best quick guide I've seen.

08-24-2009, 07:37 PM	#52
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	I think a lot of people mis-understand the purpose of a diffuser. Here is how Sto-fen wants you to think about it. STO-FEN Information (How It Works!) If you don't have anything to bounce off of (i.e at an outdoor wedding) then the "diffuser" is just sending the light out into the atmosphere. Any light that hits your subject is originating from the same size light source. If you think the lighting is improved when you put on a diffuser outdoors you should just dial your flash down because that is all that is happening - less light is hitting your subject. That way your batteries will last longer too. It appears your subject was in the shade for most of these shots so you have to ask yourself "why am I using a flash". I wasn't there so I can't comment on exactly what you should have been doing but "flash photography" is used for a number of reasons (i.e. soften shadows, light subjects when available light is too low, add "light separation" between subject and background). It looks to me like most of these photos would have been perfectly exposed without a flash so the question you need to ask yourself is "what am I trying to accomplish by adding flash". You can't correct your images or technique until you have answered that question.

08-24-2009, 07:48 PM	#53
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	Out of curiosity I downloaded one of your images to check it out - I hope you don't mind. I will delete this right away if you want me to. A big challenge you faced in this shoot was your fair skinned freckled friend. Flash lighting is very cold and your friend has very white skin. When I checked your exposure it looked to be under exposed by 1/3 stop. I added +1/3 EV and added minor contrast and then a slight warming filter to get this. I don't think "blown out" is quite what you thought it was... you just had an extremely challenging subject to shoot. I just love her freckles though And you took some great photos of her!!

08-24-2009, 08:48 PM	#54
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by kunik If you don't have anything to bounce off of (i.e at an outdoor wedding) then the "diffuser" is just sending the light out into the atmosphere. Any light that hits your subject is originating from the same size light source. If you think the lighting is improved when you put on a diffuser outdoors you should just dial your flash down because that is all that is happening - less light is hitting your subject. That way your batteries will last longer too. Kunik is right about the theory behind the Sto-Fen Omnibounce. Outdoors, an Omni-Bounce won't do much (although I don't think it does nothing). I'm not sure why I mentioned the Omni-Bounce in the first place; I think I forgot that the reception is outdoors, too. The entire purpose of my original post was to try to my recommendations simple. If shooting outdoors, using the 540 FGZ straight forward, P-TTL, no diffuser or modifier, is probably the safest bet - the approach least prone to complete failure. Shooting parties outdoors at night with a single, camera-mounted flash is just plain difficult any way you look at it. Will

08-25-2009, 01:21 PM	#55
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	Maybe bouncing just came natural to me. To me it's just like a bankshot.....but easier because you dont have any hoops to sink a ball into; just a subject to spread light all over.

08-25-2009, 01:27 PM	#56
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by WMBP Kunik is right about the theory behind the Sto-Fen Omnibounce. Outdoors, an Omni-Bounce won't do much (although I don't think it does nothing). I'm not sure why I mentioned the Omni-Bounce in the first place; I think I forgot that the reception is outdoors, too. The entire purpose of my original post was to try to my recommendations simple. If shooting outdoors, using the 540 FGZ straight forward, P-TTL, no diffuser or modifier, is probably the safest bet - the approach least prone to complete failure. Shooting parties outdoors at night with a single, camera-mounted flash is just plain difficult any way you look at it. Will You always have "something" to bounce off of. Using a lightsphere will help even outside. Angling the flash upwards and just bouncing it off your hand will tame it a touch so it's not so harsh. An offwhite card stuck on flash and angled will soften it. Shooting into a collapsible reflector will take harshness out. Straight on is usually not the most desirable or flattering technique.

08-27-2009, 07:30 AM	#58
innershell Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 408	Originally posted by Adam_T4 Just my two cents advice is don't forget a few black and white shots. That's what high ISO photos are for. Chroma noise = grain

08-28-2009, 08:53 AM	#59
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	Tomorrow's the big day! re: innershell yeah definitely but i would aim on the low end of the iso scale just to be safe on the wedding day. if a couple of times during the day you want to bust out some grain for black and white....hell yes. but please dont forget to bring it back down.....

08-28-2009, 08:56 AM	#60
innershell Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 408	Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL Tomorrow's the big day! re: innershell yeah definitely but i would aim on the low end of the iso scale just to be safe on the wedding day. if a couple of times during the day you want to bust out some grain for black and white....hell yes. but please dont forget to bring it back down..... 100% agreed. I would aim for ISO400 for 99.9999% of the shots. No reason why it can't be done with any hotshoe flash. High ISO shots would be out of a necessity and uncompromisable constraints beyond your ability to control.