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09-16-2009, 10:53 PM   #1
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Which focal length for a deep DOF in miniatures?

Hi all!
I'm currently documenting some sculptures of mine. They are between 10cm and 30cm high/wide and have little people (10mm) on top in different scenarios.

Now I would like to avoid this typical "miniature"-close-up look and was wondering which focal length would suit best. I would simply like to have as much in focus as possible. I had a play with several lenses but nothing really satisfied.

I suppose the longer the focal length and the further away from the object the better?
This should extend the DOF on a small scale?

Any recommendations?

Thanks

Markus



09-16-2009, 11:30 PM   #2
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G'day Markus.
Unfortunately the smaller the subject, the more you have to come in close, which means the more you have to stop down aperture to get more DoF.
Use a tripod, frame the shot, stop down to the most you can tolerate (for the diffraction softness of that lens) and see your results.
09-16-2009, 11:37 PM   #3
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Thanks Ash. Yeah I had a play with stopping down, but this wouldn't increase the DOF largely.
09-17-2009, 12:36 AM   #4
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You will need a lens wth some additional movements like tilt/swing/shift to get the results your looking for.

Try one of thoses lensbaby jobs, they're not too expensive.


Last edited by Kerrowdown; 09-17-2009 at 01:22 AM.
09-17-2009, 01:52 AM   #5
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You can also use a "focus stacking" program. You take multiple shots with slightly different focus, and the program will combine them to make one sharp picture.
09-17-2009, 05:14 AM   #6
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I've been using my DA 16-54 lens at around 22mm and with an f-stop between 11-18 with a bounce flash to get a decent DOF for photographing models.
09-17-2009, 05:37 AM   #7
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Hello

Have a play with this pentax dslr depth of field tool and see what you get inputting different values. It's a little something I put together this morning, a first version of some vaguely useful tools that I thought I might develop and give to this site once they're good enough and if there's enough interest...


Last edited by Nass; 09-17-2009 at 06:12 AM.
09-17-2009, 06:47 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
You can also use a "focus stacking" program. You take multiple shots with slightly different focus, and the program will combine them to make one sharp picture.
I believe Yves is correct and a stacking program might work*. A tilt/shift lens may help, but there's a huge amount of tilting & shifting to be done for that scene & perspective.

A much longer lens at high f-number would help but you might not like the change in perspective that results.

Dave

* I say "might" work because there appears to be a lot of distortion at the edges of the photo you showed & stacking won't make that go away I'll bet.
09-17-2009, 07:57 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
Try one of thoses lensbaby jobs, they're not too expensive.
If I'm correct, the lensbaby is (unfortunately) not really a tilt/shift lens and wouldn't be suitable for this job.

from their website:
QuoteQuote:
The Lensbaby is a unique SLR lens that has a sweet spot of focus with blur all around the sweet spot. Unlike a tilt-shift lens, which has a flat field of focus and a slice of of focus from end to end, the Lensbaby field of focus is curved, producing a circle of focus.
Lensbaby - Frequently Asked Questions
09-17-2009, 08:29 AM   #10
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Try about 4m away with a flash, 200mm lens at F22, then cropping, alternatively try about 20cm away with a flash, 10-17mm set at 13mm at F32 then cropping. They'll produce radically different looks, see which you like better
09-17-2009, 08:32 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scrib Quote
If I'm correct, the lensbaby is (unfortunately) not really a tilt/shift lens and wouldn't be suitable for this job.

from their website:


Lensbaby - Frequently Asked Questions
Your right, I stand corrected, saw the flexible arrangement thingy on them, lead me to think tilt/swing/shift.

Well Knopfloch will just have to go the expensive route then.
09-17-2009, 09:25 AM   #12
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Using a Pentax K20D and shooting from 5 ft away, 50mm focal length and f/11, you get almost 1.5 ft of depth of field. That should do it.

How do you shoot at f/11? Controlled lighting. Take the models outside in the middle of a sunny bright day. Or use artificial lighting.

Remember, depth of field is controlled in THREE ways: by changing f-stop, by changing your distance from the point of focus, and/or by changing your focal length. Since typically we frame the shot first, the relationship between focal length and distance from subject is usually fixed, that is, if you change the focal length, you'll need to change the distance from the center of focus and vice versa. IN terms of depth of field,

50mm + f/2.8 from 5 ft = 100mm + f/2.8 from 10 ft

Anyway, you only really have 2 options here. Throw a lot more light on the scene so you can stop down a lot. Or shoot at a shorter (wider) focal length and crop.

Your other option would be to shoot the shot with a compact camera. The other factor determining depth of field is sensor size: compact cameras have more depth of field for the same effective aperture and angle of view. And of course a top-quality compact camera can, in good lighting, take a photo that is the equal or nearly the equal of nearly any dslr.

Will
09-18-2009, 02:42 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
Your right, I stand corrected, saw the flexible arrangement thingy on them, lead me to think tilt/swing/shift.
Actually, I thought the same thing and almost went out to buy one when I read that it wouldn't work as a tilt/shift lens, which stopped me from buying it. Application is a bit too limited, IMHO. But to be honest, I'm not sure I understand why it doesn't work as a tilt/shift lens...
09-18-2009, 09:00 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
Try about 4m away with a flash, 200mm lens at F22, then cropping, alternatively try about 20cm away with a flash, 10-17mm set at 13mm at F32 then cropping. They'll produce radically different looks, see which you like better
I'd go with further away, maybe not 200mm, but maybe 135, and a narrow aperture.

One thing about DoF, if you are relatively close to something that is in your foreground, it's going to be much harder to get something in focus in the back of the scene. At farther distances, the front and back can fit within the DoF with less trouble.

ie:

_____________Camera:----front------------back = The front will be in focus, and the DoF will fall off sharply behind the front subject.

Camera:----------------------front------------back = The front and back items will fit within the DoF much better.

You will obviously need to experiment to find the best settings.
09-18-2009, 09:10 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by alohadave Quote
I'd go with further away, maybe not 200mm, but maybe 135, and a narrow aperture.
Yeah, and a narrow aperture might give better results IQ-wise as well, so that'd certainly be worth trying. Plugging in both sets of figures into my little tool gives fairly similar DOF anyway, it just struck me that he might also want to maximise the size of the little sculptures on the sensor too
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