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06-06-2007, 11:04 AM   #1
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What are these red marks in the leaves, K10D?

First, if this is in the wrong forum then please move.

This is a crop from a photo I took of my family in a group shot this past weekend at my cousins wedding. I realize this was shot into the sun and despite that, the group was in the shade and the photo turned out good otherwise. K10D with Sigma 24-135 lens. I am surprised that there is very little to no purple fringing in the leaves.

Since this was of my family all together I decided to shoot it in RAW+Jpeg. I processed all of the photos in Silkypix 3.0 and saved over the Jpegs from the camera. So I have no idea if the in camera jpegs had these same red marks. I am willing to bet that they are there. And yes, they are even in the RAW photos when opened up in Silkypix backing up my belief that the in camera jpegs had them too. All 10 of them have these marks.



After looking at these photos more, I now notice some blue marks up towards the top.

This is obviously not purple fringing. Is there a defect with my camera? Or is this a flaw with the K10D? I have seen other threads like this on DPReview but didn't give it much thought since I have never experienced it.

06-06-2007, 11:52 AM   #2
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hahaha Are you sure there is not something behind the tree? :P
06-06-2007, 12:30 PM   #3
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To me they look like they are from the other side of the tree as well, so I'd have to agree with vizjerei here.
That is unless they're on other pictures from a different location altogether

I can show you one of my pic's where there was clearly a deer on the other side of a bush, and I didn't see her hiding there until I got the pic processed.
06-06-2007, 12:39 PM   #4
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It does seem to be an artifact to me.
Especially the lowermost red blotch seems to be superimposed on the leaves.
It might have something to do with the high contrast; I do not know.
It could be specific to that particular camera; I don't think this phenomenon, whatever it is, effects all K10D's.

06-06-2007, 12:56 PM   #5
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Above the red is a few blue blotches that also seem to be behind the tree showing through the leaves. I suggest you not worry about this unless it is doing it in more situations than this one.
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06-06-2007, 01:04 PM   #6
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Sorry But..

QuoteOriginally posted by WildSioux Quote
First, if this is in the wrong forum then please move.

This is a crop from a photo I took of my family in a group shot this past weekend at my cousins wedding. I realize this was shot into the sun and despite that, the group was in the shade and the photo turned out good otherwise. K10D with Sigma 24-135 lens. I am surprised that there is very little to no purple fringing in the leaves.

Since this was of my family all together I decided to shoot it in RAW+Jpeg. I processed all of the photos in Silkypix 3.0 and saved over the Jpegs from the camera. So I have no idea if the in camera jpegs had these same red marks. I am willing to bet that they are there. And yes, they are even in the RAW photos when opened up in Silkypix backing up my belief that the in camera jpegs had them too. All 10 of them have these marks.



After looking at these photos more, I now notice some blue marks up towards the top.

This is obviously not purple fringing. Is there a defect with my camera? Or is this a flaw with the K10D? I have seen other threads like this on DPReview but didn't give it much thought since I have never experienced it.
Can you not see that there is a elongated "L" shaped object behind the tree....That's is what it is..You didn't see it while shooting. That's all
06-06-2007, 01:08 PM   #7
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I'd guess stuck pixels/dust or this: Pentax K10D Digital Camera Phantompixels - Full Review - The Imaging Resource!

That's definitely pretty weird looking. Bad memory cards usually don't look like that (bad memory takes out a section).
06-06-2007, 02:09 PM   #8
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Iíve seen something similar and itís not in the picture from the beginning, itís seems to be introduced by the RAW-converter if you over-saturate or something. Check out this one, and no itís not the limit warning.


06-06-2007, 02:36 PM   #9
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LOL at all of you thinking it was there to begin with These are probably the phantom pixels that kenyee posted and Gimbal has experienced.

I think it is due to the high contrast and the suns rays coming down at that spot. I'm not too worried about it since this is the only time it has happened. But I will definately be looking for it more.
06-06-2007, 02:52 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Iíve seen something similar and itís not in the picture from the beginning, itís seems to be introduced by the RAW-converter if you over-saturate or something. Check out this one, and no itís not the limit warning.
Is that ACR together with a PC with an AMD processor not handling the infamous SSE (SSL?) -instructions?
06-06-2007, 04:45 PM   #11
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What I see appears to be a blue oblong sign in the upper part of the picture behind the trees (similar to a Ford dealership sign) and a red unidentifiable object (sign, vehicle, billboard, etc) in the center to lower part of the picture also behind the trees, with the image editing software (main suspect) later bleeding some of that red over the leaves in several areas of the picture (during JPEG compression or other post-processing).

stewart
06-06-2007, 05:23 PM   #12
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WildSioux:
Since you're the only one who knows where this took place, what is behind that tree? Anything like a parking lot? You know we have to ask ;-)

FWIW, I think it's some weird saturation or maybe phantom pixel thing (though it's really weird if it's the phantom pixel thing because it shouldn't be that big). Note that your pic and Gimbal's pic had one of the R G B channels take over those spots. It's not some weird combo of channels like purple or something...
06-06-2007, 09:30 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
What I see appears to be a blue oblong sign in the upper part of the picture behind the trees (similar to a Ford dealership sign) and a red unidentifiable object (sign, vehicle, billboard, etc) in the center to lower part of the picture also behind the trees, with the image editing software (main suspect) later bleeding some of that red over the leaves in several areas of the picture (during JPEG compression or other post-processing).

stewart
Hmm, interesting observations LOL. No, there isn't a dealership behind the trees. This was at my grandparents house in the front yard and behind the tree is their neighbors house that is next to them.

I just did a little tweaking in Silkypix and then opened up in PS. That is where I noticed the marks before I did anything to them.

QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
WildSioux:
Since you're the only one who knows where this took place, what is behind that tree? Anything like a parking lot? You know we have to ask ;-)

FWIW, I think it's some weird saturation or maybe phantom pixel thing (though it's really weird if it's the phantom pixel thing because it shouldn't be that big). Note that your pic and Gimbal's pic had one of the R G B channels take over those spots. It's not some weird combo of channels like purple or something...
No parking lot, just another house (as mentioned above). I am positive that where the marks are is in line with the sky. So there wouldn't even be a chance for a building or a sign as some believe. Maybe tomorrow after work tonight I will post a wider view showing the leaves in relation to the ground, the sky and the background where the house is.

Here is my take on this. I am not an engineer on this type of stuff, my Dad is the electrical engineer. So I may be way off here. Since the shot was into the sun with the suns rays coming through the leaves. There is a lot of reflections and refractions going on with the light. And with what I said above where the marks are above the horizon in line with the sky this backs my belief up where there is a clear path for the light coming into the leaves. This is where the SNAFU occurs..

...The light finally making its way to the lens which refracts the light even more. When it hits the sensor, it has been refracted and reflected so much that the sensor may not know what to do. It sees those pixels where the marks are as being empty. It just can't record nothing, it has to record something in the R G B channels. So it picks the color closest to that channel. In this case, there was one blue one and many red spots.

In other words, the sensor at that spot is seeing either a red pixel or a blue one due to the light being refracted and chooses the closest in the visible light spectrum.

Just my take on it so take it with a grain of salt. Still very strange...
06-07-2007, 03:19 AM   #14
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phantom Pixels

Believe what you want, but there is a review here that expresses concern about the K10D showing phantom pixels. They noticed the problem on images with densely configured horizontal lines, so your situation is a bit different. Most of your red blotches appear to be on top of the surfaces of the leaves and not just in the gaps in between. Have you tried some other shots to see if it will reoccur?


The jury is still out ......

Last edited by J.Scott; 06-07-2007 at 03:29 AM.
06-07-2007, 03:35 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by J.Scott Quote
Believe what you want, but there is a review here that expresses concern about the K10D showing phantom pixels. They noticed the problem on images with densely configured horizontal lines, so your situation is a bit different. Most of your red blotches appear to be on top of the surfaces of the leaves and not just in the gaps in between. Have you tried some other shots to see if it will reoccur?


The jury is still out ......
No, I haven't had a chance to go take a few shots with similar conditions to duplicate the problem.

BTW...how is Canada doing this morning with Anaheim winning the Stanley Cup?
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