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06-06-2007, 04:50 PM   #1
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K10D - Setting Shake Reduction Focal Length With Manual Focus Lenses?

Just acquired a new (to me) manual focus lens (nothing special) and have a couple of questions for those with experience using such lenses. Trial and error would probably reveal the answers eventually, but the experiences of others is a very convenient shortcut.

1. According to the manual, one sets the focal length in the menu when using a manual focus lens without automatic acquisition. However, it doesn't specify if one uses the focal length shown on the lens or that with the 1.5 multiplier. For example, if I was using an older 100mm lens, would I select 100mm or 150mm (100mm x 1.5) as the focal length value for the shake reduction feature.

2. Rather than scrolling through the menus, is there a faster way to access the shake reduction focal length menu? With a manual focus zoom lens, constantly scrolling through the record menu to get to that setting each time the focal length changes would be very cumbersome.

Thanks for your assistance.

stewart

06-06-2007, 06:03 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Just acquired a new (to me) manual focus lens (nothing special) and have a couple of questions for those with experience using such lenses. Trial and error would probably reveal the answers eventually, but the experiences of others is a very convenient shortcut.

1. According to the manual, one sets the focal length in the menu when using a manual focus lens without automatic acquisition. However, it doesn't specify if one uses the focal length shown on the lens or that with the 1.5 multiplier. For example, if I was using an older 100mm lens, would I select 100mm or 150mm (100mm x 1.5) as the focal length value for the shake reduction feature.

2. Rather than scrolling through the menus, is there a faster way to access the shake reduction focal length menu? With a manual focus zoom lens, constantly scrolling through the record menu to get to that setting each time the focal length changes would be very cumbersome.

Thanks for your assistance.

stewart
1. You set the actual focal length of the lens.
2. Aside from turning the camera on and off, the menu is where it is. I don't think it was optimized for manual focus zooms as much as primes.
06-06-2007, 06:53 PM   #3
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hey stewart, Like carpents said off and on prompts you for focal length or hit menu and up button and it is right there. Personally if I'm using a zoom I usually set it for the wide end (35 for my 35-70mm) unless I have time to set it for a specific shot. That way I don't forget and have it set for a longer focal length than what I'm using (I think it would cause blurry shot). Thats been working for me anyways, hope this helps.
06-07-2007, 07:25 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by borno Quote
hey stewart, Like carpents said off and on prompts you for focal length or hit menu and up button and it is right there. Personally if I'm using a zoom I usually set it for the wide end (35 for my 35-70mm) unless I have time to set it for a specific shot. That way I don't forget and have it set for a longer focal length than what I'm using (I think it would cause blurry shot). Thats been working for me anyways, hope this helps.

When I use a manual zoom, I tend to set it near the middle of the range. I've never done any tests to see the effects of setting it at different focal lengths. I never really thought about it degrading a picture, just not helping it as much as it possibly could.

06-07-2007, 07:38 AM   #5
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You can turn the camera on and off to get this setting or via the menu and it always pops up when a lens change is made. As for doing it, it is simply for data files for each shot taken with a given lens. The Camera will shoot just fine with any lens attached even if the right focal length is not chosen. It's simply there so that when you go to your Pentax software you can see what lens took what shot. I've taken several hundred photos without making the adjustment in the menu. All worked just fine. I'm no engineer but I assume that the SR only 'sees' the image/camera movement and does it's anti shake based on that data not what lens is attached.
06-07-2007, 07:46 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
As for doing it, it is simply for data files for each shot taken with a given lens.
...
I'm no engineer but I assume that the SR only 'sees' the image/camera movement and does it's anti shake based on that data not what lens is attached.
I'm also not an engineer, nor have I quantitatively tested this, but the focal length does impact the amount the sensor moves. Since a shift of one pixel with a 16mm lens will equate to a many pixel shift with a 300mm lens, I would assume that setting the focal length will play a part in correctly compensating.

This is a notable change over previous shake reduction systems like Minolta's, which will only shift at the ~50mm level for any manual lens.
06-07-2007, 08:02 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
I'm also not an engineer, nor have I quantitatively tested this, but the focal length does impact the amount the sensor moves. Since a shift of one pixel with a 16mm lens will equate to a many pixel shift with a 300mm lens, I would assume that setting the focal length will play a part in correctly compensating.

This is a notable change over previous shake reduction systems like Minolta's, which will only shift at the ~50mm level for any manual lens.

Should be trivial to test. Mount a manual lens then lie to the camera about the focal length by a factor of 10. Take some pictures with SR on where SR would normally be needed. Now set focal length to correct value. Repeat. Check results.
If I had a manual lens I would try this out, but alas I don't ... yet. ;-)

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06-07-2007, 08:04 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I'm no engineer but I assume that the SR only 'sees' the image/camera movement and does it's anti shake based on that data not what lens is attached.
As the sensor doesn't see anything until you fire the shutter, the SR system has to be gyro controlled. If I'm not mistaken, the system senses how the camera body moves relative to the gyro, does some calculations, scales the answers to the length of the lens, and moves the sensor accordingly. If I'm not mistaken, the safe setting would be turning SR off, setting it to the shortest setting of the lens. Or you can flick the camera off/on to re-set the SR setting each time you zoom. Setting the SR system to a higher setting than actually used *could* induce more motion blur, as the SR overcompensates.

06-07-2007, 09:59 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
1. You set the actual focal length of the lens.
Great, I'll try that with shake reduction on the shorter focal length range. Of course, since it's a heavy 100-500mm telephoto, a tripod will be used without shake reduction on the upper end of the focal length range.

QuoteQuote:
2. Aside from turning the camera on and off, the menu is where it is. I don't think it was optimized for manual focus zooms as much as primes.
I was afraid of that. I've been turning the camera off and on, but that seems a little harsh. Since this lens will not be used that often, I guess I can live with the menu where it is.

stewart
06-07-2007, 10:17 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by borno Quote
hey stewart, Like carpents said off and on prompts you for focal length or hit menu and up button and it is right there. Personally if I'm using a zoom I usually set it for the wide end (35 for my 35-70mm) unless I have time to set it for a specific shot. That way I don't forget and have it set for a longer focal length than what I'm using (I think it would cause blurry shot). Thats been working for me anyways, hope this helps.
Good idea, but I don't know if it will help much in my situation. My current plan is to use this lens (100-500mm) in two stages, handheld for the shorter focal lengths and a tripod for the longer focal lengths. In other words, it will be treated more like two lenses rather than a single lens with a single overall solution.

The primary reason for this plan is the size and weight of the lens itself (weighs more than the camera, grip, and normal zoom lens together and slightly over 16 inches long at 500mm). In other words, this is a big beast requiring considerable support. Because it's so heavy, I simply can't deliver firm support at the longer focal lengths.

stewart
06-07-2007, 10:36 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
As for doing it, it is simply for data files for each shot taken with a given lens. The Camera will shoot just fine with any lens attached even if the right focal length is not chosen. It's simply there so that when you go to your Pentax software you can see what lens took what shot.

That's certainly not what the owners manual suggests. On page 67, it says "The Shake Reduction function operates by acquiring the lens unformation such as focal length." On page 69, it says "Effect of Shake Reduction is influenced by the shooting distance as well as focal length information." In other words, it appears the shake reduction function is dependant on focal length for proper operation. Since the camera often cannot automatically acquire the focal length with older lenses or most manual focus lenses, one has to enter focal length manually.

stewart
06-08-2007, 02:30 PM   #12
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I believe the Shake Reduction on my K100D needs the focal length. If it was simply to document the file information, why doesn't the same prompt appear on my K110D? Even the K100D does not prompt if SR is off.

Entering a value for my old 70-210 manual Sigma is not a problem for me. Usually I know what FL I'm going to use for awhile (210, or 200 in the menu). The camera even remembers the setting, weeks later it defaults to the last value used.

I didn't look for a setting in a menu, in those rare times I change the Zoom I cycled power.
06-09-2007, 04:57 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
I was afraid of that. I've been turning the camera off and on, but that seems a little harsh. Since this lens will not be used that often, I guess I can live with the menu where it is.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "harsh"...I always switch the camera off between lens changes. I doubt it will shorten the lifespan of the camera appreciably.

I think it's in the owner's manual somewhere, but my understanding is that for manual zooms you set SR to the LONGEST focal length, not the shortest.
06-09-2007, 09:53 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Finn Quote
Not sure exactly what you mean by "harsh"...I always switch the camera off between lens changes. I doubt it will shorten the lifespan of the camera appreciably.
Would you prefer blunt, crude, or excessive? While I also don't think it will impact lifespan, clicking the camera off and on to simply bring up a menu seems a little ... (insert your preferred adjective if you don't like mine).

QuoteQuote:
I think it's in the owner's manual somewhere, but my understanding is that for manual zooms you set SR to the LONGEST focal length, not the shortest.
I found very little in the owners manual about manual lenses in general, and even less about manual zooms. In fact, I don't remember seeing anything about manual zooms. That's why I ended up posting this question here. I now have a satisfactory answer, which will eventually be confirmed or contradicted through my own experimentation.

stewart
07-04-2008, 02:01 AM   #15
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Hi there.

I have a Pentax k10D and I recently purchased 2 M-type lenses. I've read some instructions about making them work on new k10D but the problem is that in the menu "Shake-reduction" is disabled and I don't manage to enable it. Any tips for this?

Thanks a lot
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